Non-US Citizens and Voting.

So often we hear people say that they don't vote. So here's a few questions for those that say this and believe it.

How do you know they're not voting?
What processes are in place to identify and deny and punish those that are not allowed to vote because they are in the US illegally either through running through the border or overstaying their visa's or are simply just not Citizens?
If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

Voter registration.


Think about it. You're here illegally. You're not highly educated, else you wouldn't be here illegally. You don't want to get caught. So, for an opportunity to cast one vote amongst millions, you're gonna roll the dice and press your luck?


Have you ever registered to vote before?

KevinKohler said:

Voter registration.


Think about it. You're here illegally. You're not highly educated, else you wouldn't be here illegally. You don't want to get caught. So, for an opportunity to cast one vote amongst millions, you're gonna roll the dice and press your luck?


Have you ever registered to vote before?

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In states like CA, when you get a driver's licence, [they give those to illegals] you are automatically registered to vote.

How convenient.

WCH said:

In states like CA, when you get a driver's licence, [they give those to illegals] you are automatically registered to vote.

How convenient.

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Those are special types of licenses (AB-60) and under California law cannot be used as identification, only authorization to operate a vehicle. Now if you think they shouldn't be allowed to drive, that is fine, but it doesn't allow them to vote.

Kal'Stang said:

So often we hear people say that they don't vote. So here's a few questions for those that say this and believe it.

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You do realize that there is a difference between no evidence for, and no one at all, right?

How do you know they're not voting?

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Why do you think they are? There is zero evidence to support the assumption that illegal immigrants are voting illegally in any significant numbers. If you think it might be an issue, perhaps you should actually offer evidence to support that position, instead of trying to get others to do your work for you. The burden of proof is on you.

What processes are in place to identify and deny and punish those that are not allowed to vote because they are in the US illegally either through running through the border or overstaying their visa's or are simply just not Citizens?

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You mean other than provide penalties, and require them to prove that they are able to legally vote in order to get registered to vote?

If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

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The act of voting does not identify you as a noncitizen, but registering does. Hint: you have to register to vote...

Now, since I jumped through your rather stupid hoops, how about you answer my simple question: can you show evidence that illegals voting is a significant enough problem that we should spend much more resources and effort on it?

WCH said:

In states like CA, when you get a driver's licence, [they give those to illegals] you are automatically registered to vote.

How convenient.

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Sort of. However, you do have to be qualified to vote to get registered, and at that time, they actually do have all the documentation about your place of birth, citizenship, and so on right there.

This thread's going well.

spud_meister said:

This thread's going well.

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I do not think that word, "well", means what you think it does.


Or you where being sarcastic...

Redress said:

I do not think that word, "well", means what you think it does.


Or you where being sarcastic...

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Well, considerimg I'm never sarcastic...

KevinKohler said:

Voter registration.


Think about it. You're here illegally. You're not highly educated, else you wouldn't be here illegally. You don't want to get caught. So, for an opportunity to cast one vote amongst millions, you're gonna roll the dice and press your luck?


Have you ever registered to vote before?

Click to expand...

I filled out a form, and a few weeks later they gave me a voter registration card printed on simple card stock. I didn't have to show any ID or any other proof who I was when I filled out that form and mailed it for my voter registration card. Maybe your state does things different and they require that you actually show up in person with a state issued ID,SS card and a birth certificate to prove you are who you say are and a utility billed mailed to you so you can prove that you actually live at he address you say you live at.

jamesrage said:

I filled out a form, and a few weeks later they gave me a voter registration card printed on simple card stock. I didn't have to show any ID or any other proof who I was when I filled out that form and mailed it for my voter registration card. Maybe your state does things different and they require that you actually show up in person with a state issued ID,SS card and a birth certificate to prove you are who you say are and a utility billed mailed to you so you can prove that you actually live at he address you say you live at.

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No ****?


I'm so used to my state (CT) being sort of the worst at getting **** wrong...yeah, to register here, you have to show up in person, and present at least 2 forms of ID, and a mailed blll of some sort.

KevinKohler said:

Voter registration.


Think about it. You're here illegally. You're not highly educated, else you wouldn't be here illegally. You don't want to get caught. So, for an opportunity to cast one vote amongst millions, you're gonna roll the dice and press your luck?


Have you ever registered to vote before?

Click to expand...

I voted this year. All that I had to do was give them a form that I filled out. Nothing else.

Redress said:

Why do you think they are? There is zero evidence to support the assumption that illegal immigrants are voting illegally in any significant numbers. If you think it might be an issue, perhaps you should actually offer evidence to support that position, instead of trying to get others to do your work for you. The burden of proof is on you.

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There is zero evidence because there is nothing in place that identifies if someone voting is a US citizen or not. Not even the registration system can do that. Obama admitted that much himself.

Redress said:

You mean other than provide penalties, and require them to prove that they are able to legally vote in order to get registered to vote?

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What proof? Like I said in my previous post, I just filled out a form (a basic one at that) handed it to them and voted all on the same day. Didn't have to prove who I was.

Redress said:

The act of voting does not identify you as a noncitizen, but registering does. Hint: you have to register to vote...

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How? Does the registration process include checking to see if the identity being used checks a system that goes across the whole country? Do they call the place you say you were born in to make sure that there even is such a person that was born on X date even across state lines? Do they check the IRS to see if there are multiple people using the same information? (in a country were roughly half of working illegal immigrants are using stolen identities.)

Redress said:

Now, since I jumped through your rather stupid hoops, how about you answer my simple question: can you show evidence that illegals voting is a significant enough problem that we should spend much more resources and effort on it?

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No I can't. Because there is no system in place that identifies voters as being US Citizens. Obama admitted that himself. I can also provide evidence that in Florida alone hundreds of people that are non-US Citizens are registered to vote. Lord knows how many across the entire US. That is the point of this thread. To get people to admit that there is no system in place that proves that only US citizens are voting. As such there is no way to tell if Non-US citizens are voting or not. And as such no one can definitively say whether they are or not. In order to get proof then there must be a system in place that actually determines if a person voting is legally allowed to do so.

Kal'Stang said:

So often we hear people say that they don't vote. So here's a few questions for those that say this and believe it.

How do you know they're not voting?
What processes are in place to identify and deny and punish those that are not allowed to vote because they are in the US illegally either through running through the border or overstaying their visa's or are simply just not Citizens?
If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

Click to expand...

There is a reason the democrats are against voter ID and pushing to get felons to vote .

Socrates1 said:

There is a reason the democrats are against voter ID and pushing to get felons to vote .

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I have no problem with allowing felons to vote. Why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Kal'Stang said:

I have no problem with allowing felons to vote. Why shouldn't they be allowed to?

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Then they should also be allowed to have a firearm too .

Kal'Stang said:

So often we hear people say that they don't vote. So here's a few questions for those that say this and believe it.

How do you know they're not voting?
What processes are in place to identify and deny and punish those that are not allowed to vote because they are in the US illegally either through running through the border or overstaying their visa's or are simply just not Citizens?
If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

Click to expand...

I know that here in California, much pressure was placed on people to vote due to the issues at play.

It's hard to know if that resulted in widespread voter fraud, as there is no efficient way to track those numbers. That's why the reply to Voter ID laws always centers on the lack of any convictions for voter fraud. It's like saying few people speed when driving by looking at the number of speeding tickets issued.

It's not possible for me to remove my respect for the law, so the question of whether I would try to vote illegally given the stakes is not possible to answer fairly.

I suppose if it came down to it, and I had already allowed my family to be put in harms way because of my own selfish decisions, I'd probably vote.

WCH said:

In states like CA, when you get a driver's licence, [they give those to illegals] you are automatically registered to vote.

How convenient.

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True, and with the DL you have a picture ID. Ironic, isn't it that even illegals are capable of obtaining a picture ID, but so many of our citizens claim they can't. But that is on another topic.
Having an ID and going to vote doesn't mean your vote will be counted. Unless we are dealing with a completely corrupt election office. Election offices must verify the voters legal status.
I.e., you can vote into your precinct, show an electric bill as ID, fill out a provisional ballot. But unless your SSN is traced and you are considered eligible to vote, your efforts were in vain.

Frequently Asked Questions | California Secretary of State

If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

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Interesting question and a very personal one. I guess it depends on integrity and what your vote means to you. For me, voting is a privilege and an honor, and not to be taken lightly.
As a non partisan person, I am more interested in voting for the right person instead of party, and I think that is something your question touches on. Is anyone partisan enough to cheat, just to get their preferred candidate on top, therefor making a mockery of our election system?

Candidates who are willing to win at all costs are nothing but despicable and don't deserve the right to be anywhere near the office.

BrewerBob said:

Those are special types of licenses (AB-60) and under California law cannot be used as identification, only authorization to operate a vehicle. Now if you think they shouldn't be allowed to drive, that is fine, but it doesn't allow them to vote.

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Sure about that?

BrewerBob said:

Those are special types of licenses (AB-60) and under California law cannot be used as identification, only authorization to operate a vehicle. Now if you think they shouldn't be allowed to drive, that is fine, but it doesn't allow them to vote.

Click to expand...

None of that stops the automatic voter registration. The person getting the license has to proactively decline the registration. If they do register to vote, they enjoy special status in the world of voter fraud; it is not their fault. They are actually protected from voter fraud. It seems to me that there is actually little risk involved for the illegal voter.

AB-1461 Voter registration: California New Motor Voter Program

2268. If a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote pursuant to this chapter in the absence of a violation by that person of Section 18100, that person’s registration shall be presumed to have been effected with official authorization and not the fault of that person.

2269. If a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote pursuant to this chapter and votes or attempts to vote in an election held after the effective date of the person’s registration, that person shall be presumed to have acted with official authorization and shall not be guilty of fraudulently voting or attempting to vote pursuant to Section 18560, unless that person willfully votes or attempts to vote knowing that he or she is not entitled to vote.

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natsb said:

None of that stops the automatic voter registration. The person getting the license has to proactively decline the registration. If they do register to vote, they enjoy special status in the world of voter fraud; it is not their fault. They are actually protected from voter fraud. It seems to me that there is actually little risk involved for the illegal voter.

AB-1461 Voter registration: California New Motor Voter Program

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California is run by truly despicable people, isn't it?

Despite all the denials by the left, despite all the accusations by the left, the legislation they passed puts their efforts in black and white.

Just like they've been taught when entering the country illegally, just claim asylum, in the case of voting, just claim you didn't know it was illegal and the registration was not their fault.

The vote still counts, doesn't it?

Guests don't have a say in what's for dinner or how we're going to decorate. They come, stay, and enjoy the hospitality. They accept what is offered or politely refuse. Most importantly, they know when to leave.

Kal'Stang said:

So often we hear people say that they don't vote. So here's a few questions for those that say this and believe it.

How do you know they're not voting?
What processes are in place to identify and deny and punish those that are not allowed to vote because they are in the US illegally either through running through the border or overstaying their visa's or are simply just not Citizens?
If you were here in the US and a non-citizen would you vote knowing that the voting process does not include a way to identify you as a non-US Citizen and as such not able to legitimately vote?

Click to expand...

I recently registeted to vote at the BMV. I have citizenship. My husband does not. He is legally here with a resident green card. The lady at the BMV said he can't vote on a green card. The day I voted, I had to show ID and they checked I was legally registered and permitted to vote off their database.

My husband didn't vote.

It's highly unlikly millions of illegal aliens illegally voted. That is nonsense.

SheWolf said:

I recently registeted to vote at the BMV. I have citizenship. My husband does not. He is legally here with a resident green card. The lady at the BMV said he can't vote on a green card. The day I voted, I had to show ID and they checked I was legally registered and permitted to vote off their database.

My husband didn't vote.

It's highly unlikly millions of illegal aliens illegally voted. That is nonsense.

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So your husband is here legally. Was honest and presented a green card. Obviously he wouldn't be allowed to vote. What about those that are dishonest though? That believe that they should have a say even if the law says that they "can't"? Is it really nonsense to think that there are millions of people like that? Those that are here illegally have already demonstrated a penchant for ignoring our laws. They've also demonstrated a penchant for using false identities and stolen identities. What is truly in place to stop them from voting?