• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why is there so much outrage over Trump's immigration stance?

Orly? said:
They use boats now, but most just skip across the wide open border like Dorthy.. We can atleast make it harder on them..
Click to expand...

The only way to make a wall effective is to have any vulnerabilities covered by shooters, and an impediment just to get to it. I just don't see it as a feasible solution.

The problem of illegal immigration can only be fixed by reducing incentive for them to come here, AND for Americans to not exploit their availability, AND to maintain humanitarianism while doing so. Without all three, it's a fool's errand.
 
Most people that I speak with in the real world who support illegal immigration have not witnessed the mass infiltration of low paid workers which has killed the construction trades/jobs.

Sub crews of Roofers, framers, drywall hangers & finishers, siding mechanics, etc. etc. have devastated entire regions.
 
Kobie said:
The only way to make a wall effective is to have any vulnerabilities covered by shooters, and an impediment just to get to it. I just don't see it as a feasible solution.

The problem of illegal immigration can only be fixed by reducing incentive for them to come here, AND for Americans to not exploit their availability, AND to maintain humanitarianism while doing so. Without all three, it's a fool's errand.
Click to expand...

K so do all that too after we build the wall..
 
Orly? said:
They have no choice..
Click to expand...

Actually, they do, and a pretty easy one. They can be bullied by a very weak bully, of they can laugh as he blusters and blunders and bitches. Trump, even with the office of president, would have basically zero pressure he could bring to bear to get Mexico to do what he wants. With no leverage, no payments for the fence.
 
Orly? said:
K so do all that too after we build the wall..
Click to expand...

What part of "it's not feasible" didn't sink in? Whether logistically or economically, it's a pipe dream. It won't work.
 
Redress said:
Actually, they do, and a pretty easy one. They can be bullied by a very weak bully, of they can laugh as he blusters and blunders and bitches. Trump, even with the office of president, would have basically zero pressure he could bring to bear to get Mexico to do what he wants. With no leverage, no payments for the fence.
Click to expand...

Kobie said:
What part of "it's not feasible" didn't sink in? Whether logistically or economically, it's a pipe dream. It won't work.
Click to expand...

You are just in denial..
 
Orly? said:
They have no choice..
Click to expand...

Okay. Explain how Mexico has "no choice" but to make a billion-dollar expenditure for our benefit, at our demand. In your own words. This should be good.
 
Kobie said:
Okay. Explain how Mexico has "no choice" but to make a billion-dollar expenditure for our benefit, at our demand. In your own words. This should be good.
Click to expand...

10 billion... a billion-dollar expenditure X10...


impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options].
 
billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).
 
Orly? said:
10 billion... a billion-dollar expenditure X10...


impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options].
Click to expand...

Great idea! And by great, I mean phenomenally stupid and would raise a fraction of the funds needed.

You can't impound all remittance payments without screening every parcel, piece of mail or person going to Mexico.
 
Kobie said:
Great idea! And by great, I mean phenomenally stupid and would raise a fraction of the funds needed.

You can't impound all remittance payments without screening every parcel, piece of mail or person going to Mexico.
Click to expand...

BS
Western union is super tough on identification for AML laws and such and could easily stop these things..

I play in Bitcoin a lot and often see examples of how AML laws stop people in there tracks and freeze their funds constantly..
 
Orly? said:
BS
Western union is super tough on identification for AML laws and such and could easily stop these things..

I play in Bitcoin a lot and often see examples of how AML laws stop people in there tracks and freeze their funds constantly..
Click to expand...

Bitcoin! LOLOLOLOLOL. A currency with about the same cachet as World of Warcraft gold.
 
Kobie said:
Bitcoin! LOLOLOLOLOL. A currency with about the same cachet as World of Warcraft gold.
Click to expand...

Armature daytrading is fun. I'm up over 15,000% ;)

Anyway yes I am interested in an area where payments are stopped and accounts frozen all the time. Not mine ever, but I see it happen to people constantly.
 
Orly? said:
Armature daytrading is fun. I'm up over 15,000% ;)

Anyway yes I am interested in an area where payments are stopped and accounts frozen all the time. Not mine ever, but I see it happen to people constantly.
Click to expand...

15,000 percent of zero is zero.
 


:coffeepap
 
Kobie said:
15,000 percent of zero is zero.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good 4th grade math there..

x X 150 = 0 mmhm if x=0

But if x>0 then x X 150 = something
 
Because it's outrageous.

:lol:

Pretty frickin' simple.
 
I despise Trump for his demagoguery and fascist tendencies, but it's scandalizing that the U.S waited for such a nobody to speak some sense to it. That illegal immigration remains a significant problem in the U.S illustrates the policy of inaction that prevailed to this day, but why, I don't know. Is it for the sake of cheap labor? I don't see why illegal immigrants are essential for that, as immigrants from less affluent countries provide that commodity without being in violation of the law. Is it bleeding-heart liberals at play? I find it difficult to believe they'd go that far in their nonsense. Could it be just lethargy? probably.
 
rubbadubdub said:
A liberal country like Australia has no bordering nations, essentially a "natural wall" of water. If someone is found to be undocumented, they are deported. If someone is captured trying to arrive by boat, they are shipped off to a remote island for detention and will never set foot on Australian soil.
Click to expand...


Australia's leadership is obviously more intelligent than United States leadership in this area.
 
Kobie said:
The problem with "a wall like Israel has" is that Israel has slightly less border to worry about.

My only objection to a wall is that I don't think it will work.
Click to expand...

If you mean that it won't be 100% effective, then I agree. NOTHING is 100% effective.

However, even if it is only 50% effective, that is a 50% decrease in both contraband smuggling and illegal immigrant passage and the wall would be worthwhile. If it is only 90% effective? So much the better.
 
Redress said:
I see better government works projects available. Roads, bridges, those spring to mind.



Do you know the difference in length between the two walls?


It is almost impossible to properly monitor a wall of that length, and even shorter walls that do have monitoring have smuggling under them


Why do I care what stupid people think?



I can and do shrug it off, because I have looked into it. I might suggest doing the same.
Click to expand...

You can solve most of the immigrant problem with a federal E verify, with federal* penalties for offenders. The rest of the problem is drugs and criminals smuggling drugs and people in.

*It needs to be federally enforced, because Gov. Brown in California has indicated he will not cooperate in keeping illegal aliens out.
 
Interestingly enough, John Oliver devoted a segment of his show to evaluating this "serious" plan from a "serious" candidate. Let's watch and learn.

 
Captain Adverse said:
If you mean that it won't be 100% effective, then I agree. NOTHING is 100% effective.

However, even if it is only 50% effective, that is a 50% decrease in both contraband smuggling and illegal immigrant passage and the wall would be worthwhile. If it is only 90% effective? So much the better.
Click to expand...

But why take those risks on a wall that will, initially, cost about 25 billion dollars and then require a maintenance cost of an additional 25 billion dollars every seven years?

We could use drones or remote sensors for significantly less money.
 
rubbadubdub said:
Illegal immigration is denounced by every country in the world.
Click to expand...

Except most of those countries have a rational immigration policy that makes it reasonably easy for good people to immigrate. When you have an obviously stupid law on the books you get rid of the law and replace it with a better one. If you fixed the law and streamlined things so that good people could get in legally easier then you wouldn't need a boarder wall at all because 98% of the people crossing the Mexican boarder are in fact good people who should be allowed in. Putting up a wall or throwing current illegal immigrants out of the country would be like saying you have to completely stop all alcohol consumption and arrest every person who drank a beer under prohibition before you can repeal prohibition. If a law is dumb get rid of it.

There's also the fact that unlike every other country in the world the United States was founded by immigrants. People who were running away from the Tyranny and BS going on in the rest of the world. The plaque at Ellis Island states "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free." Blocking immigration is probably the single most anti-American idea that could possibly be entertained.

The whole idea of American Exceptionalism is based on the notion that America is unique and superior to the rest of the world so relying on what the rest of the world does with immigrants is probably not the best solution. Further more if you like what other countries are doing with immigrants why don't you try to immigrate to one of those countries so you can have immigration policy that's nothing like America.

The truth is that if Trump supporters and other Republicans were only worried about "Illegal" immigration they could simply fix that by just making them all legal. They wont do that however because their real problem is not a hatred of Illegal immigration it's a hatred of all immigrants. Specifically those that are coming from countries filled with brown people.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom