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Poland: WW II was caused by the two totalitarian powers : Stalinist Soviet Union and Nazi Germany

OldFatGuy said:
Read Mein Kampf.
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He also tied them to an international banking conspiracy, not unlike what we see with the anti-semitic, anti-Soros crowd today.
 
Another angle I'd read about is that when Germany needed an out of the way place to practice their blitzkrieg tank tactics without drawing heat for treaty violations, Russia provided.

Apparently, what the Germans didn't count on was that the Russians would learn nearly as much about tank warfare as the Germans did in the process.
 
WillyPete said:
Another angle I'd read about is that when Germany needed an out of the way place to practice their blitzkrieg tank tactics without drawing heat for treaty violations, Russia provided.

Apparently, what the Germans didn't count on was that the Russians would learn nearly as much about tank warfare as the Germans did in the process.
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Rogue Valley said:
C7A40E9C-FD3F-4AAD-9D10-E0048CCD67AF_w1080_h608.jpg


Left: The German and Russian Nazis carving up Poland and the Baltic States in 1939.
Right: The Russian Nazi who wants to do so again today.
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j brown's body said:
Excellent gppbook on this topic:

Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder – review | Books | The Guardian
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Putler has promised to plug the "filthy mouth" to those who rewrites (telling the truth) history
 
j brown's body said:
He also tied them to an international banking conspiracy, not unlike what we see with the anti-semitic, anti-Soros crowd today.
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So, he was deluded nut case. Is this supposed to be news? Meanwhile the Nazis hoarded gold, masterpiece artworks, and gilded toilets. So what?
 
WillyPete said:
Another angle I'd read about is that when Germany needed an out of the way place to practice their blitzkrieg tank tactics without drawing heat for treaty violations, Russia provided.

Apparently, what the Germans didn't count on was that the Russians would learn nearly as much about tank warfare as the Germans did in the process.
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You wouldn't have guessed that based on how well Soviet tankers performed early on, lol.
 
Fledermaus said:
Everyone who learned were purged.
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Eh, the purges get all the attention but what gutted the Red Army before Barbarossa was it's massive expansion that the USSR was completely unprepared for. Before the invasion of Poland the Red Army was only 1.3 million men, sizeable for sure, but for a country of 170 million and 20 million miles it wasn't very big especially when compared to the Wehrmacht, or even the French and Italians.

It was the rapid German conquests (especially over the French, whom Stalin thought had the best Army in the world) that convinced the Soviets of the dire need to expand their armed forces, and saw the Red Army balloon from under 2 million to 5 million in just a year. It completely broke the back of the Soviet logistical system, leaving front line units without any kind of reserves of ammunition or fuel, and the rapid conscription fielded millions of peasants whom only collectively had a few weeks of training. Making matters worse was that Soviet annexations of Poland, the Baltics, and Bessarabia actually negated Soviet defensive plans, which had been in place prior to the MRP.

The Soviets were still in the midst of their reorganization when Barbarossa struck, and the sorry state of the Red Army might have been one of the reasons Stalin was in such denial over the Nazi invasion.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Eh, the purges get all the attention but what gutted the Red Army before Barbarossa was it's massive expansion that the USSR was completely unprepared for. Before the invasion of Poland the Red Army was only 1.3 million men, sizeable for sure, but for a country of 170 million and 20 million miles it wasn't very big especially when compared to the Wehrmacht, or even the French and Italians.

It was the rapid German conquests (especially over the French, whom Stalin thought had the best Army in the world) that convinced the Soviets of the dire need to expand their armed forces, and saw the Red Army balloon from under 2 million to 5 million in just a year. It completely broke the back of the Soviet logistical system, leaving front line units without any kind of reserves of ammunition or fuel, and the rapid conscription fielded millions of peasants whom only collectively had a few weeks of training. Making matters worse was that Soviet annexations of Poland, the Baltics, and Bessarabia actually negated Soviet defensive plans, which had been in place prior to the MRP.

The Soviets were still in the midst of their reorganization when Barbarossa struck, and the sorry state of the Red Army might have been one of the reasons Stalin was in such denial over the Nazi invasion.
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All true...

The thing about the Russians assisting the Germans in the tank field reminds me of what strange bedfellows the Germans had in the 1930s.

US Marine Curtiss F8C Helldivers demonstrated precision dive bombing to Ernst Udet .

Russia assisted the tank program.

Spain provided a play ground to test weapons and tactics.

The US provided many of the raw materials and equipment.
 
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