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Thread: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the WW2

  1. #11
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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    In a way, the Soviets played the perfect role in WW2: cannon fodder. The Commies outlasted the Nazis simply because they had more bodies to give. And, the West benefited from that immensely.
    without USA/UK help koba had 0 chance survive , numbers
    "Soviet shells made of American brass, equipped with American gunpowder and TNT, brought by an American steam locomotive in an American carriage on American rails (620 thousand tons of them were delivered) must somehow be delivered from the unloading station to the firing position of the artillery battery. What to carry? There are no 375 thousand American trucks. There’s nothing to put on your own, one and a half losers collapsing on the go - there are no 3.6 million American tires, and there is no Lend-Lease rubber, which provided a third of its production in real history. Soldiers also don’t have anything to wear - minus 13 million pairs of leather army boots.

    50 thousand commander "jeeps" are not. Teams are transmitted with flags and signal fires - minus 16 thousand tank radio stations, minus 29 thousand various radio stations for infantry, minus 619 thousand telephone sets and 1.9 million km of telephone wire (you can wrap the Earth at the equator 48 times), minus 4 , 6 million dry batteries and 10 million (yes, ten million!) Radio tubes.

    Point 5. In the middle of the 20th century, the outcome of battles on earth was largely determined by air supremacy. 18 thousand American and British warplanes are not. If we add to this the loss of two Siberian aircraft factories (see paragraph 1), then we do not have bomber aircraft of medium and long range. Pe-2 is used as a bomber, hastily cobbled together in a “sharak” of the NKVD from a high-altitude fighter with a maximum bomb load of 600 kg (the German single-engine fighter FW-190 took 500 kg of bombs, the American single-engine fighter Thunderbolt - 908 kg). And it is not clear what this Pe-2 should be made of - in the absence of Lend-Lease aluminum and chromansil (high-strength steel). The same question applies to the production of Yakovlev fighters. Lavochkin fighters are made of the so-called “delta-wood” (multilayer plywood, to put it more simply), we have our own wood, but phenolic resins for gluing veneers are imported. But even if there are some planes, then why refuel them?

    In real history, the Soviet Air Force spent 3 million tons of gasoline during the war. One third is American gasoline. The second third is gasoline of its own production, brought to the right condition by mixing with American high-octane components. A third of the third million is made at four full-blown American plants brought across the ocean. And let's not forget about 6300 tons of tetraethyl lead (antiknock additive) that arithmetically completely covers the needs of Soviet-made aviation gasoline. Since there is none of this, and the planes are quietly on the ground, you can’t even forget about the absence of 12 thousand tons of Lend-Lease ethylene glycol (coolant, which could fill about 250 thousand aircraft engines).



    And now - from the little things to the main thing. To what is happening on the other side of the front.



    Point 6. In a real story, from the first to the last day of the war, a grand battle took place in the waters of the Atlantic, in the deep sea and sky-high heights above the ocean; grandiose not in the number of people directly involved in naval battles, but in the cost of material resources. In particular, from 39 to 45, Germany produced 1,113 submarines with a combined tonnage of 960 thousand tons. Even considering the most primitive way, by weight, these boats correspond to 40 thousand medium tanks of the Pz-III or Pz-IV type. Is this a lot? In fact, for the entire time of the war, the Germans produced “only” 28 thousand of these tanks (including self-propelled guns on their chassis). At the same time, we understand that a ton of hostility, and a submarine in terms of "filling density" with complex systems (hydroacoustics, autonomous navigation, long-distance radio communications, crew life support, optics, pneumatics, batteries, etc.) are much more expensive and more complicated than a tank. "

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    Karl Marx : "The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

  2. #12
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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    Muscovite- Jewish leading historian M Solonin wrote, look like Pike plan could work well and Hitler - Koba (nazi - commie) allies ´d be suffocated

    "Germans drove the Soviet Black Sea Fleet into the Poti-Batumi region, where the ship stood until the end of the war by the forces of aviation and a dozen torpedo boats (not a single! Surface ship of a destroyer class or higher at the kriegsmarine in the Black Sea). There is no reason to doubt that the appearance of large forces of the German surface fleet in the Black Sea would have ended with the second flooding of the Black Sea Fleet for the second quarter of a century and the unimpeded landing of German troops on the Black Sea coast of Georgia. From Batumi to Baku, 700 km in a straight line, and at the most, in a month the Germans either seize oil fields or burn them to the ground with air strikes (doubters can google the words "Lufwaffe raids on Yaroslavl, Gorky, Saratov")

    For the Soviet Union, the loss of Baku oil means a catastrophe of strategic magnitude.
    There was no West Siberian oil at all, and the so-called "second Baku" - the fields of Tataria and Bashkiria - accounted for no more than 5-7% of the production of "first Baku". The Red Army now fights on carts, in the Ural collective farms plow on women. What, where and when would the war end under such conditions?

    I think the very same thing that would end the war on the Western Front, if in another alternative reality it would be the only one. That we are without Anglo-American allies, that without us they were doomed to inevitable defeat. And in real history, Hitlerite Germany was defeated by a coalition of world powers, and so it was called: "anti-Hitler coalition." The participation of our country in this coalition - despite the horror of the war and the tragedy of the deaths of millions of people - was the most worthy, brightest event in the thousand-year history of Russia. This must be remembered, one can be proud of it. "

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    Except, again, the plan was deficient from the get-go. Your quote doesnt even mention Pike---it is talking about potential German operations. Losing Baku would be a harsh blow, but as I have covered repeatedly the inaccuracy of the period's strategic bombing and the lack of resources allocated to the plan--it wouldn't have worked.

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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    a classical example satanists´ whitewashing . i am 100% sure you hate this film

    Karl Marx : "The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    Except, again, the plan was deficient from the get-go. Your quote doesnt even mention Pike---it is talking about potential German operations.
    yes, USA/UK could do it way way more officiant, and effects of this attack would be way more devastated for koba despotism
    Karl Marx : "The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    yes, USA/UK could do it way way more officiant, and effects of this attack would be way more devastated for koba despotism
    Except as I already showed, they weren't "more efficient". Strategic bombing was laughably inaccurate in 1945, much less 1940-1941.

    Not only that, but the raid had minimal resources allocated to it, so even if they had tried the operation---and if the bombers had managed to even hit their targets, an open question at best---the damage inflicted would have been minimal.

    Plus the Soviets knew the operation was planned because the Germans had captured the plan from French documents.

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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    a classical example satanists´ whitewashing . i am 100% sure you hate this film

    Pointing out that bombers can't time travel is "Stalinist" now?

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    Re: Operation Pike strategic bombing plan against the USSR by the Anglo French alliance, during the

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    could it stop Koba´s barbaric hordes from invading and raping Europe for 55 long years ?
    No.

    The performance of British and French bombers during the first years of WW2 was exceptionally poor, a far cry from the devastating bomber campaigns the RAF and later USAAF would carry out from 1943 onward. It took a couple of years, and some very painful lessons that included often massive losses, for the British to actually turn Bomber Command into a weapon capable of inflicting serious damage to strategic targets.

    WW2 showed that if you wanted to damage the industrial output, and therefore the economy, of your enemies you needed to hit the same targets repeatedly, since they would inevitably be rebuilt they had to be hit again and again. The aircraft the British and French assigned to bomb the USSR's oilfields and production facilities are lacking and unlikely to inflict the truly catastrophic damage needed to actually cripple the Soviet economy.

    Lastly, doing so would have almost immediately resulted in the USSR declaring war on France and Britain, and would eventually leave the UK to take on both the Nazis and the Communists alone.
    “We were all of us cogs in a great machine which sometimes rolled forward, nobody knew where, sometimes backwards, nobody knew why.”

    ― Ernst Toller

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