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Most Overated American Military Commander in History OR Most Overated in World History?

Tangmo said:
Lee is a traitor.

Lee thought also the CW was Virginia v The Union. Lee spent the war in Virginia, right to the bitter end.

Lee's same worshipers are also the Putin-Trump Rowers. Those who support the CSA statues, monuments, memorials that are on their way out.

These facts are established.

You meanwhile repeat your identical mantra of the past 4 years: monthly, weekly, daily, several times a day. I am ignorant, I lie and I am a liar. You have 4 more years of it in you and then some. Your only hope in your calculated and repeated denunciation, arbitrary declaration, summary nco pronouncements, empty accusation and your endless personal rant is that readers will absorb your mantra by osmosis and internalize it, at which point your mantra would be accepted and you would succeed in your personal campaign of character assassination of another poster. However, I have my personal honor, self esteem, self respect so I'm not going anywhere solely because of you and your protectors and saviors. They have lost all credibility too -- long since.
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Fledermaus said:
I bolded everything that has zero to do with whether or not Lee was a good general.

The "established facts" (AKA Ignorant Tangmopinion) are irrelevant to whether or not Lee was a good general. That and statement "Lee thought also the CW was Virginia v The Union" is ignorant beyond belief. A student of the Civil War would understand.

Your final paragraph is merely repetitious Tangmobabble....

Rote regurgitation of mindless talking points.

Why haven't you rebutted my facts?

That's right. You can't.
Click to expand...

I highlighted everything to do about me.


Lee is a traitor.

I see that too many here are like Trump and Charlottesville however. That is, they can find good people on both sides.

Or then again when it comes to the CW the Lee Fanboyz seem to find good people on only one side. What they can't recognize or accept though is that Lee is no longer an icon of treason as a good thing. Lee is instead the worst kind of traitor, the one against the USA Constitution. Good people don't support that and good people don't try to blanket over the fact of Lee's treason.
 
Tangmo said:
I highlighted everything to do about me.


Lee is a traitor.

I see that too many here are like Trump and Charlottesville however. That is, they can find good people on both sides.

Or then again when it comes to the CW the Lee Fanboyz seem to find good people on only one side. What they can't recognize or accept though is that Lee is no longer an icon of treason as a good thing. Lee is instead the worst kind of traitor, the one against the USA Constitution. Good people don't support that and good people don't try to blanket over the fact of Lee's treason.
Click to expand...

Nothing you wrote changes Lee's record as a general. Honorable and meritorious server first to the USA then the CSA.

An officer would understand. Even a JROTC wannabe should. Yet you don't.
 
Fledermaus said:
Nothing you wrote changes Lee's record as a general. Honorable and meritorious server first to the USA then the CSA.

An officer would understand. Even a JROTC wannabe should. Yet you don't.
Click to expand...

I highlighted everything about me.

All a false and incessant rant of course, year in and year out.


Lee was a traitor. There's no blanketing that over.

Rommel was a natural enemy foreign general/marshal in a foreign land. So was Yamamoto, who was another natural foreign enemy in a foreign land. The Kaiser, bin Laden and all the rest of 'em out there and over there. Lee in stark contrast was born and lived in the United States. Lee fought against the United States in the United States. Lee led armies against the United States in the United States.

Lee was a traitor.
 
Tangmo said:
I highlighted everything about me.

All a false and incessant rant of course, year in an year out.

Lee was a traitor. There's no blanketing that over.

Rommel was a natural enemy foreign general/marshal in a foreign land. So was Yamamoto, who was another natural foreign enemy in a foreign land. The Kaiser, bin Laden and all the rest of 'em out there and over there. Lee in stark contrast fought against the United States in the United States. Lee led armies against the United States in the United States.

Lee was a traitor.
Click to expand...

And nothing you wrote negates Lee's record.

It is amazing how you keep regurgitating talking points that are completely irrelevant.

A real officer and/or student of history can separate politics from military record.

You can't. You refuse to.

What does that say about you?
 
Fledermaus said:
And nothing you wrote negates Lee's record.

It is amazing how you keep regurgitating talking points that are completely irrelevant.

A real officer and/or student of history can separate politics from military record.

You can't. You refuse to.

What does that say about you?
Click to expand...

Lee is a traitor.


Your focus and obsession is on another person no matter the thread or topic or the discussion. Past, present, future. Daily.
 
Fledermaus said:
And that has what to do with his military record?

Why don't you understand what real officers would?
Click to expand...

We see you're a Trump and Charlottesville guy.

Good people, those Nazis over there.

Good people, those CSA generals.

Good generals too, traitors that they are.

Good boosters those CSA generals have too, all of 'em. Right up to the present. Rah rah, great CSA generals, those guys.

Statues to 'em in public places, monuments in public parks, memorials and flags at state and county government buildings -- all great stuff to the CSA Army generals and CSA heroes of culture, politics, government, battles of the CW.

Your idea of a "real officer" of the armed forces sounds like what Bedford Forrest thought. What's the ol' saying over there about the only good Yankee...
 
Tangmo said:
Lee is a traitor.

Lee thought also the CW was Virginia v The Union. Lee spent the war in Virginia, right to the bitter end.

Lee's same worshipers are also the Putin-Trump Rowers. Those who support the CSA statues, monuments, memorials that are on their way out.

These facts are established.

You meanwhile repeat your identical mantra of the past 4 years: monthly, weekly, daily, several times a day. I am ignorant, I lie and I am a liar. You have 4 more years of it in you and then some. Your only hope in your calculated and repeated denunciation, arbitrary declaration, summary nco pronouncements, empty accusation and your endless personal rant is that readers will absorb your mantra by osmosis and internalize it, at which point your mantra would be accepted and you would succeed in your personal campaign of character assassination of another poster. However, I have my personal honor, self esteem, self respect so I'm not going anywhere solely because of you and your protectors and saviors. They have lost all credibility too -- long since.
Click to expand...

Well, just remember that Arlington National Cemetary, and the mansion that overlooks it, were given to the American people by Robert E Lee.
 
TomFitz said:
Well, just remember that Arlington National Cemetary, and the mansion that overlooks it, were given to the American people by Robert E Lee.
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The U.S. Army seized control of the Custis-Lee estate during the Civil War. The U.S. Army made the estate a burial ground for Union Soldiers. Department of the Army continues to administer the vastly expanded area around it that is the National Cemetery for all the people of the United States.

Anyone who's been to Arlington National Cemetery can go to the oldest areas at the east wall to see the many Union Army graves marked "Unknown" from the Civil War. I spent four years doing military honors funerals duty in Arlington National Cemetery, Army. The Marine Corps War Memorial is immediately on the other side of the east wall of the Cemetery -- the Iwo Jima Statue.

In 1901 Congress authorized a Confederate section of burials. It is Section 16, Jackson's Circle, which is a small area with a Confederate Soldiers statue. This was done by the United States in the interests of conciliation and forgiveness. The nearly 500 tombstones there are deliberately slanted on the top to form a sharp crease so the yankees can't sit on 'em, is what the Southerns of the former CSA lands said at the time...and since. I sat on 'em anyway as do others with no problem. It's the CSA Fanboys who have the butt hurt over the whole of it. Your post that Lee donated the mansion and estate is made completely out of your ass.


Confederate Memorial Arlington National Cemetery Section 16

ConfederateArlingtonKessler03.JPG

The section was authorized by Congress in 1901 after Americans from the North and the South were included among the soldiers who fought in the Spanish American War. Unity and reconciliation was the theme. The official reason for the pointed tombstones of Section 16 is to distinguish the markers from the mass of the markers in the Cemetery which have tops that are slightly and evenly arched.





ConfederateArlingtonKessler14.JPG

The negative depiction of slaves on the memorial is a source of controversy in recent decades. Daughters of the Confederacy donated the statue in 1914. Department of the Army says no changes to the section or the memorial statue are planned or anticipated. It's just as well for reasons of historical accuracy on the hallowed ground of the National Cemetery. Or so I'd say.
 
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Tangmo said:
We see you're a Trump and Charlottesville guy.

Good people, those Nazis over there.

Good people, those CSA generals.

Good generals too, traitors that they are.

Good boosters those CSA generals have too, all of 'em. Right up to the present. Rah rah, great CSA generals, those guys.

Statues to 'em in public places, monuments in public parks, memorials and flags at state and county government buildings -- all great stuff to the CSA Army generals and CSA heroes of culture, politics, government, battles of the CW.

Your idea of a "real officer" of the armed forces sounds like what Bedford Forrest thought. What's the ol' saying over there about the only good Yankee...
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Another post that does nothing to negate Lee's combet record.

It appears you are incapable of discussing Lee's record rationally.
 
maxparrish said:
I nominate Douglas MacArthur. Among his numerious blunders and disasters:

1) Leadership of the military attack on WWI vet pension marchers during the depression.
2) Pigheaded belief that the Japanese would not attack the Phillipines before March of 1942.
3) Hiding in his office during the first 1/2 day (or more) of the war, frozen in fear and unwilling to launch counter-attack on Japanese forces.
4) Still having his air force destroyed on the ground, more than a day AFTER the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.
5) His inept attempt to stop the Japanese landings, and fatally delayed implementation of the approved plan for the defense of the Philippines.
6) His idiotic misunderstandings of his allies (the Aussies), his commanders, and his options.
7) His obsession with retaking the Philippines in an act of vainglorious wasting of lives and time, attacking the wrong island(s) at the wrong time.
8) His inept handling of Korea, idiotic predictions of victory, and denial of Chinese intervention.

MacArthur should have been sacked soon after his air force was caught napping - a crime for which General Short and Admiral Kimmel paid dearly at Pearl Harbor (and in that case it was a true surprise).

Among the lessons in history, he embodies that vile shibboleth of the political world that perception counts more than reality.
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Disagree:

Mt. Rushmore of military leaders born on American soil & the battles that put them there:
1) MacArthur at Inchon
2) Lee at Chancellorsville
3) Forrest at Brices Crossroads
4) Jackson's Valley Campaign
 
Fledermaus said:
Another post that does nothing to negate Lee's combet record.

It appears you are incapable of discussing Lee's record rationally.
Click to expand...

Lee's record doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Most of his major successes can be put down to incompetent union generals. Lee employed an aggressive strategy to take advantage of this, but it cost his army dearly in terms of casualties and made it vulnerable to complete destruction in a number of cases, saved again only by union incompetence.
 
Irredentist said:
Lee's record doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Most of his major successes can be put down to incompetent union generals. Lee employed an aggressive strategy to take advantage of this, but it cost his army dearly in terms of casualties and made it vulnerable to complete destruction in a number of cases, saved again only by union incompetence.
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I am reminded of a quote from Napoleon... There comes a time when each commander is convinced he has lost. The first to act on that belief is usually correct.

Lee fought at a disadvantage in practically every battle he fought. His loss at Gettysburg could have been a victory. Was his decision poor? Yes, we can see with 20/20 hindsight it was a mistake. But when you consider the Confederate army broke the Union army forcing retreat multiple times the decision appears less rash back in the day.
 
Fledermaus said:
I am reminded of a quote from Napoleon... There comes a time when each commander is convinced he has lost. The first to act on that belief is usually correct.

Lee fought at a disadvantage in practically every battle he fought. His loss at Gettysburg could have been a victory. Was his decision poor? Yes, we can see with 20/20 hindsight it was a mistake. But when you consider the Confederate army broke the Union army forcing retreat multiple times the decision appears less rash back in the day.
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The reason that the confederate army was able to defeat the union so many times has everything to do with incompetent union generals, not tactical or strategic brilliance on the part of Lee. McClellan, Hooker, Meade, none of these men had the ability to effectively command the union army and Lee punished them for it. That in and of itself makes him competent, it does not make him brilliant. Had those union generals been more capable he would have lost the war very early on.
 
Irredentist said:
The reason that the confederate army was able to defeat the union so many times has everything to do with incompetent union generals, not tactical or strategic brilliance on the part of Lee. McClellan, Hooker, Meade, none of these men had the ability to effectively command the union army and Lee punished them for it. That in and of itself makes him competent, it does not make him brilliant. Had those union generals been more capable he would have lost the war very early on.
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In other words Lee outgeneraled the entire Union Army until he met Grant. And then outgeneraled him more than once.

I wonder why his exploits are studied at the Military Academy...

Oh the "he only faced incompetent generals" saw could fit Rommel, Von Manstein, Alexander, Washington, etc.
 
Jay59 said:
Lincoln said, "I cannot spare Grant. He fights."
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After Grant was commissioned Lt-Gen by Lincoln to become general in chief of the Union armies Longstreet told his officers:

“We must make up our minds to get into a line of battle and stay there, for that man will fight us every day and every hour till the end of this war.”


Grant and Longstreet were roommates at West Point and Longstreet was best man at Grant's wedding, also being wife Julia's cousin. Grant and Longstreet fought with the same infantry regiment in Mexico where the expert horseman Grant kept mounting wandering horses to regroup cavalry then charge. Longstreet made the famous remark to Confederate Army officers who were disparaging Grant who they said would meet real opposition fighting against Lee.


Grant was in fact a busy and determined guy.

Grant pulled clerks and guards out of their buildings and put 'em in his armies to fight.

Grant and Gen. Halleck who became Army chief of staff unified Army commands that had been independent to include supply, quartermaster, adjutant general among others.

Grant and Sherman prevailed on Lincoln to have the Navy assign Adm. David Dixon Porter of the Vicksburg campaign to the Atlantic coast to support Sherman in his March to the Sea.

Grant pulled units from backwater Confederate nothing posts in Florida and Arkansas and put 'em in his armies to fight against Lee.

Grant appointed Sheridan commander of Union cavalry who with 4 divisions of infantry and 3 divisions of cavalry commanded by Custer reversed a Union rout by CSA Gen. Jubal Early to finish the Confederates in the Shenandoah Valley. Grant later called Sheridan the "best general of the war."

In March 1864 in Parlor A of the grand and famous Burnet House in Cincinnati Grant and Sherman strategized the "hard war" Lincoln had called for. At their side was the brilliant 35 year old Maj-Gen McPherson no one knows much of, then or since, if they know anything of him at all (KIA Battle of Atlanta commanding XII Corps under Sherman). McPherson noted Sherman had foraged his army through Mississippi to Meridian and had torched Randolph Tennessee, so Sherman was the guy to level Atlanta and take Georgia out of the war. And that Grant was the guy to corner Lee and do him in.

Sherman did pin Johnston in Atlanta and ended up driving Johnston into North Carolina via Savannah with the stench of the Atlanta fires still on him. Lee's classmate at West Point, Johnston said not since Caesar had there been such an army. Grant did a Napoleon at Petersburg which caused the evacuation of Richmond then Lee showing up at Appomattox aching a ton of butt hurt.

In his memoirs Grant said of Lee, "He never ventured far from his defensive ramparts. He was an average general."
 
Irredentist said:
The reason that the confederate army was able to defeat the union so many times has everything to do with incompetent union generals, not tactical or strategic brilliance on the part of Lee. McClellan, Hooker, Meade, none of these men had the ability to effectively command the union army and Lee punished them for it. That in and of itself makes him competent, it does not make him brilliant. Had those union generals been more capable he would have lost the war very early on.
Click to expand...

Maj. Gen. Joseph Hooker and his Eastern Army defeated the Confederates in the Battle of Lookout Mountain at Chatanooga. The weather deteriorated so rapidly the fighting on the plateau at the top became engulfed in clouds, making it the "Battle Above The Clouds." After nightfall the remaining Confederate troops sneaked off the mountain as silently as possible.

The next day Hooker and Thomas set out against Bragg's left flank at Rossville. Bragg got routed. Chatanooga and Lookout Mountain belonged to the Union again. Several months later Sherman with 100,000 troops set out from the road, rail and river junction of Chatanooga to burn Atlanta in the flames of hell. Holy Hell one could say.


Meade commanded at Gettysburg and he knew Lee just as well as any Union commander knew Lee. Lee was well known for attacking the flanks which is a good Napoleonic tactic. So Meade fielded stout flanks that were ordered to hold no matter what. Meade's flanks did hold. Lee then did his entirely predictable routine. Lee lost his cool and ordered a direct assault against the Union center at the aptly named Cemetery Ridge.

Meade had Gen. Hancock at the center with 8000 infantry and the war's newest artillery and its merciless variety of shells. Longstreet and Pickett pleaded with Lee not to attack Hancock and his dug in defensive force waiting for them. Hancock who was wounded riding up and down the line had 8 rows of 1000 infantry in each row firing on the Confederates walking more than a half mile across the open field. Plus the deadly new artillery blasting 'em to pieces. Lee lost 3 divisions between breakfast and lunch. At least it was quick for the Confederates. Pickett who remained in the saddle at the woodline because he knew it would be the slaughter it was lost his entire division. Meade knew his opponent Lee better than Lee knew himself.


Lee's view of Cemetery Ridge

th




After the Vicksburg and Gettysburg double header sweep Lincoln ordered up the "hard war" that Grant and Sherman strategized and pursued. Historians call it "total war." Grant called it war. Sherman said it was "Enlightened War" because it ended wars more swiftly and decisively. Lee himself called it quits.
 
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slick said:
Disagree:

Mt. Rushmore of military leaders born on American soil & the battles that put them there:
1) MacArthur at Inchon
2) Lee at Chancellorsville
3) Forrest at Brices Crossroads
4) Jackson's Valley Campaign
Click to expand...

MacArthur's idiotic call at Inchon is the only military reason he is over-rated because it is ONLY plausible inspired decision of his entire post WWI career - the remainder of his "over-rating" being due to the fawning press and sycophantic staff whose job it was too build a fiction press).

As far as Inchon is concerned, it was a reckless and unnecessary gamble that ONLY dodged disaster because in SPITE of Chinese intelligence warnings to Il Sung, the NK leader was so grossly incompetent so as to ignore the warnings. There was NO REASON for MacArthur to suppose that even a half-wit mediocrity, or at least someone who was dependent on his Chinese guardians and advice, could have failed to provide Inchon with at least a minimal nearby military presence to prevent an expanded tiny bridgehead, if not utterly destroy UN landing forces.

MacArthur's military subordinate commanders knew this and tried to talk him out of it. THE ENTIRE "logic" of the landing depending a determinedly stupid oppositional commander...something that could not be predicted. As it happened, the MacArthur's plan only worked because he ignored his advisors, while Ill Sung coincidently ignored his own advisors at the same time. That's not genius, its comedy.
 
Tangmo said:
Maj. Gen. Joseph Hooker and his Eastern Army defeated the Confederates in the Battle of Lookout Mountain at Chatanooga. The weather deteriorated so rapidly the fighting on the plateau at the top became engulfed in clouds, making it the "Battle Above The Clouds." After nightfall the remaining Confederate troops sneaked off the mountain as silently as possible.

The next day Hooker and Thomas set out against Bragg's left flank at Rossville. Bragg got routed. Chatanooga and Lookout Mountain belonged to the Union again. Several months later Sherman with 100,000 troops set out from the road, rail and river junction of Chatanooga to burn Atlanta in the flames of hell. Holy Hell one could say.


Meade commanded at Gettysburg and he knew Lee just as well as any Union commander knew Lee. Lee was well known for attacking the flanks which is a good Napoleonic tactic. So Meade fielded stout flanks that were ordered to hold no matter what. Meade's flanks did hold. Lee then did his entirely predictable routine. Lee lost his cool and ordered a direct assault against the Union center at the aptly named Cemetery Ridge.

Meade had Gen. Hancock at the center with 8000 infantry and the war's newest artillery and its merciless variety of shells. Longstreet and Pickett pleaded with Lee not to attack Hooker and his dug in defensive force waiting for them. Hancock who was wounded riding up and down the line had 8 rows of 1000 infantry in each row firing on the Confederates walking more than a half mile across the open field. Plus the deadly new artillery blasting 'em to pieces. Lee lost 3 divisions between breakfast and lunch. At least it was quick for the Confederates. Pickett who remained in the saddle at the woodline because he knew it would be the slaughter it was lost his entire division. Meade knew his opponent Lee better than Lee knew himself.


Lee's view of Cemetery Ridge

th




After the Vicksburg and Gettysburg double header sweep Lincoln ordered up the "hard war" that Grant and Sherman strategized and pursued. Historians call it "total war." Grant called it war. Sherman said it was "Enlightened War" because it ended wars more swiftly and decisively. Lee himself called it quits.
Click to expand...

Tangmo said "Lee lost 3 divisions between breakfast and lunch"...

EVERYONE DRINK!

You continue to rate a general on one battle while ignoring the rramst of his career...

An real student of military history would not do that.





BTW - When did the assault begin?
 
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Sherman, on Grant....

I am damned smarter man than Grant. I know more about military history, strategy, and grand tactics than he does. I know more about supply, administration, and everything else than he does. I'll tell you where he beats me though and where he beats the world. He doesn't give a damn about what the enemy does out of his sight, but it scares me like hell. … I am more nervous than he is. I am more likely to change my orders or to countermarch my command than he is. He uses such information as he has according to his best judgment; he issues his orders and does his level best to carry them out without much reference to what is going on about him and, so far, experience seems to have fully justified him
 
Tangmo said:
After Grant was commissioned Lt-Gen by Lincoln to become general in chief of the Union armies Longstreet told his officers:

“We must make up our minds to get into a line of battle and stay there, for that man will fight us every day and every hour till the end of this war.”


Grant and Longstreet were roommates at West Point and Longstreet was best man at Grant's wedding, also being wife Julia's cousin. Grant and Longstreet fought with the same infantry regiment in Mexico where the expert horseman Grant kept mounting wandering horses to regroup cavalry then charge. Longstreet made the famous remark to Confederate Army officers who were disparaging Grant who they said would meet real opposition fighting against Lee.


Grant was in fact a busy and determined guy.

Grant pulled clerks and guards out of their buildings and put 'em in his armies to fight.

Grant and Gen. Halleck who became Army chief of staff unified Army commands that had been independent to include supply, quartermaster, adjutant general among others.

Grant and Sherman prevailed on Lincoln to have the Navy assign Adm. David Dixon Porter of the Vicksburg campaign to the Atlantic coast to support Sherman in his March to the Sea.

Grant pulled units from backwater Confederate nothing posts in Florida and Arkansas and put 'em in his armies to fight against Lee.

Grant appointed Sheridan commander of Union cavalry who with 4 divisions of infantry and 3 divisions of cavalry commanded by Custer reversed a Union rout by CSA Gen. Jubal Early to finish the Confederates in the Shenandoah Valley. Grant later called Sheridan the "best general of the war."

In March 1864 in Parlor A of the grand and famous Burnet House in Cincinnati Grant and Sherman strategized the "hard war" Lincoln had called for. At their side was the brilliant 35 year old Maj-Gen McPherson no one knows much of, then or since, if they know anything of him at all (KIA Battle of Atlanta commanding XII Corps under Sherman). McPherson noted Sherman had foraged his army through Mississippi to Meridian and had torched Randolph Tennessee, so Sherman was the guy to level Atlanta and take Georgia out of the war. And that Grant was the guy to corner Lee and do him in.

Sherman did pin Johnston in Atlanta and ended up driving Johnston into North Carolina via Savannah with the stench of the Atlanta fires still on him. Lee's classmate at West Point, Johnston said not since Caesar had there been such an army. Grant did a Napoleon at Petersburg which caused the evacuation of Richmond then Lee showing up at Appomattox aching a ton of butt hurt.

In his memoirs Grant said of Lee, "He never ventured far from his defensive ramparts. He was an average general."
Click to expand...
If you want a thread on most under-rated General, Longstreet is a good candidate.
 
maxparrish said:
MacArthur's idiotic call at Inchon is the only military reason he is over-rated because it is ONLY plausible inspired decision of his entire post WWI career - the remainder of his "over-rating" being due to the fawning press and sycophantic staff whose job it was too build a fiction press).

As far as Inchon is concerned, it was a reckless and unnecessary gamble that ONLY dodged disaster because in SPITE of Chinese intelligence warnings to Il Sung, the NK leader was so grossly incompetent so as to ignore the warnings. There was NO REASON for MacArthur to suppose that even a half-wit mediocrity, or at least someone who was dependent on his Chinese guardians and advice, could have failed to provide Inchon with at least a minimal nearby military presence to prevent an expanded tiny bridgehead, if not utterly destroy UN landing forces.

MacArthur's military subordinate commanders knew this and tried to talk him out of it. THE ENTIRE "logic" of the landing depending a determinedly stupid oppositional commander...something that could not be predicted. As it happened, the MacArthur's plan only worked because he ignored his advisors, while Ill Sung coincidently ignored his own advisors at the same time. That's not genius, its comedy.
Click to expand...


In WW I MacArthur was awarded the Silver Star seven times. Patton said MacArthur was "the bravest man I ever met." It was when MacArthur was promoted to brig. gen. As reform superintendent of West Point where MacArthur had graduated first in his class he prepared the officer corps for the mechanized, airborne and tank warfare of WW II in Europe. Legend had it MacArthur personally shot the Army's last horse.

In the Pacific in WW II for every combatant who died under MacArthur's command 7 Japanese combatants died.

As military governor of Japan MacArthur shipped in supplies from allied forces to prevent a post war famine. MacArthur oversaw the Japan post war Constitution by which democracy was established and women got the franchise. MacArthur assumed his duty as a mission.

At Inchon MacArthur had air superiority while the NK generals positioned their forces everywhere but Inchon. When you look at the list of alternative sites prepared by MacArthur's staff the NK generals had established defenses at each one, except Inchon. He made the 1st Marine Division lead in the Inchon successful order of battle which stopped Potus Truman in his tracks trying to incorporate USMC into the Army. The Navy's success at Inchon also arrested Truman's trying to fold up the WW II Navy and its aircraft carriers in particular. While Inchon did not defeat the NK Army it did relieve US and SK forces encircled at Busan and it liberated SK.


MacArthur's reforms at USMA focused on the following questions among others that led to the Army's Louisiana Maneuvers of 1940-41:


Louisiana%20Main%20Article.jpg

Infantryman get a close-up look at the M2A1 medium tank during a lull in the 'fighting' at the Louisiana Maneuvers of 1940-41. USA had the manpower yet its Army needed educating, training, teamwork, discipline. (Courtesy National Archives)


Could mobile units adequately replace horse cavalry?
Could the Army’s newly formed paratrooper units actually be dropped en masse?
Would armored units be able to maneuver effectively in difficult terrain and uncertain weather conditions?
Would the Army’s new three-regiment “triangle divisions” maneuver more efficiently than the old four-regiment “square divisions”?

Moreover, Gen. Marshall who implemented the Louisiana Maneuvers over 3400 square miles of every kind of terrain was keen to see whether a professional officer corps of rising colonels and brigadier generals could command large units operating over vast tracts of territory, as they would be called on to do in the brewing war. Lt. Gen. Krueger later described what Marshall and America’s other senior commanders were looking for in their officers — men who possessed “broad vision, progressive ideas, a thorough grasp of the magnitude of the problems involved in handling an army, and lots of initiative and resourcefulness.”

Louisiana Maneuvers (1940-41)



Thanks to visionary and exemplary leadership, officers and enlisted personnel together turned out to be what many of us call the Greatest Generation.
 
Fledermaus said:
Tangmo said "Lee lost 3 divisions between breakfast and lunch"...

EVERYONE DRINK!

You continue to rate a general on one battle while ignoring the rramst of his career...

An real student of military history would not do that.





BTW - When did the assault begin?
Click to expand...


Between lunch and Lee's 4 o'clock tea.

You get lit up each time by this ha. Like a pinball machine flashing and pinging full tilt.

So from now on I'll say between lunch and Lee's 4 o'clock tea.

Lee lost 3 divisions charging the Union center at Cemetery Ridge on the 3rd and final day at Gettysburg. Between lunch and Lee's 4 o'clock tea. That's cause it was over and done with before it wuz time for Lee's dinner to be served. Either way I say it the point gets made.

That is, Lee went his usual nutso when he failed to turn Meade's flanks. It drove Lee nuts to fail to turn a flank. So Lee was gonna show 'em, them damn yankees. He sent his army across a wide open field more than a half mile into 8000 Union infantry and the Union's newest cannon and the nastiest explosives of different kinds and used at different ranges.

The direct consequence is that Lee lost three divisions between lunch and his 4 o'clock tea. Because as it turned out it was still to early for dinner. White linen and plates and all. Milk tea but only if the cow wasn't blown up too. Drat.
 
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