• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

April is Confederate Heritage Month!

truthatallcost said:
Adolph Proskauer was a Jewish officer in the army of the Confederate States of America during the United States Civil War. He rose to the rank of major.

220px-Major_Adolph_Proskauer.jpg



Adolph Proskauer - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Hm. Sounds like a traitor.
 
ralphcdp said:
The north, and Lincoln didn't give a **** about Blacks and slavery. The whole ****ing century after the CW tells the tale about that.
Click to expand...

And the Southern slave owners loved that free labor, not exactly something to be proud of. You dont see the Germans erecting statues of Goering or Goebbles. You know why, because they feel shame and regret, something Southerners who crow about the Confederacy should note. And yes I equate the Souths clinging to slave labor with the Nazi regime, same dog different breed.
 
ralphcdp said:
The south were free traders. The north didn't give a rat's ass about slavery. Look at how the founding terrorists, the stunning hypocrites "all men are created equal" sold their souls for money.
Click to expand...

While a lot of people in the North gave a rat's ass or two about slavery, it wasn't the reason the North went to war. And Lincoln probably saw the issue as mainly a pain in the ass although it did have propaganda value.

I think the founding fathers saw the hypocrisy, but most of them took the position that negroes were not worth sacrificing the new nation for. If only they had really thought it out.
 
ralphcdp said:
The north, and Lincoln didn't give a **** about Blacks and slavery. The whole ****ing century after the CW tells the tale about that.
Click to expand...

The Civil War, like so much of history, is in every era recast as a morality tale, and the people recasting it identify with the heroes and then brand the hated outgroup-du-jour as the villain. Yes, the South seceded due to slavery. It was a MAJOR motivating factor. The central one, in fact. But the North didn't go to war to abolish slavery. They went to war to preserve geopolitical unity on this side of the Atlantic, and to defend business interests. They flat out said as much, with much flowery language. And when they did free the slaves, Lincoln mulled restricting their voting rights before being assassinated, and then a huge portion of the newly freed slaves died. Up to one in four. The government certainly had the resources to save them, they just didn't see it as expeditious to expend the political capital necessary to do so. The civil war was ugly. The lead up was ugly, and the aftermath was ugly. And neither side cared about black people in the abstract. There were no heroes, it was a senseless and disgusting slaughter born of an unresolved contradiction which has poisoned this country since its inception.
 
Last edited:
ralphcdp said:
The north, and Lincoln didn't give a **** about Blacks and slavery. The whole ****ing century after the CW tells the tale about that.
Click to expand...

In the North there was a strong abolitionist movement. Your statement is incorrect, pick up a history book.
 
yankintx said:
And the Southern slave owners loved that free labor, not exactly something to be proud of. You dont see the Germans erecting statues of Goering or Goebbles. You know why, because they feel shame and regret, something Southerners who crow about the Confederacy should note. And yes I equate the Souths clinging to slave labor with the Nazi regime, same dog different breed.
Click to expand...

This is spot on.

But remember- the statues and hero worship and lost cause narrative didn’t really come around for about 50 years.

And we see to this day an undercurrent of neo-nazi support around the world.
 
kitsune said:
I think the founding fathers saw the hypocrisy, but most of them took the position that negroes were not worth sacrificing the new nation for. If only they had really thought it out.
Click to expand...

Try as you might, one just can't polish pieces of ****.
 
Rabbi Morris Raphall of New York’s Congregation B’nai Jeshurun, was a vocal supporter of slavery in the days leading up to the Civil War, reflecting the fact that 40% of Southern Jews owned slaves, the highest of any race or ethnicity. In 1860, Rabbi Raphall said, “Slavery has existed since the earliest time,” the rabbi wrote. “Slave holding is no sin,” he declared, since “slave property is expressly placed under the protection of the Ten Commandments.” An estimate by Congressman Simon Wolf placed the number of Jewish soldiers in the Union forces at about 8,400 and in the Confederate forces at about 10,000.

images



Jews in the Civil War | My Jewish Learning
 
yankintx said:
And the Southern slave owners loved that free labor, not exactly something to be proud of. You dont see the Germans erecting statues of Goering or Goebbles. You know why, because they feel shame and regret, something Southerners who crow about the Confederacy should note. And yes I equate the Souths clinging to slave labor with the Nazi regime, same dog different breed.
Click to expand...

The USA genocide against the Blacks and the USA genocide against Native Americans. Y'all really ought not to be pointing fingers. The hypocrisy is over the top.
 
$1000 said:
The Civil War, like so much of history, is in every era recast as a morality tale, and the people recasting it identify with the heroes and then brand the hated outgroup-du-jour as the villain. Yes, the South seceded due to slavery. It was a MAJOR motivating factor. The central one, in fact. But the North didn't go to war to defend slavery. They went to war to preserve geopolitical unity on this side of the Atlantic, and to defend business interests. They flat out said as much, with much flowery language. And when they did free the slaves, Lincoln mulled restricting their voting rights before being assassinated, and then a huge portion of the newly freed slaves died. Up to one in four. The government certainly had the resources to save them, they just didn't see it as expeditious to expend the political capital necessary to do so. The civil war was ugly. The lead up was ugly, and the aftermath was ugly. And neither side cared about black people in the abstract. There were no heroes, it was a senseless and disgusting slaughter born of an unresolved contradiction which has poisoned this country since its inception.
Click to expand...

In applaud your very refreshing honesty. You are a rare breed in the USA. Actually a lot pf western nations.
 
truthatallcost said:
Rabbi Morris Raphall of New York’s Congregation B’nai Jeshurun, was a vocal supporter of slavery in the days leading up to the Civil War, reflecting the fact that 40% of Southern Jews owned slaves, the highest of any race or ethnicity. In 1860, Rabbi Raphall said, “Slavery has existed since the earliest time,” the rabbi wrote. “Slave holding is no sin,” he declared, since “slave property is expressly placed under the protection of the Ten Commandments.” An estimate by Congressman Simon Wolf placed the number of Jewish soldiers in the Union forces at about 8,400 and in the Confederate forces at about 10,000.

images



Jews in the Civil War | My Jewish Learning
Click to expand...

Ah. An evil traitor.
 
Threegoofs said:
We should celebrate it by highlighting all the Southern heroes who did NOT betray their nation.

Here’s a fantastic twitter thread celebrating these patriots, while making the subtle point that confederates were not patriots.. they were traitors.

What a great idea! There’s dozens of examples and pics in the thread.

Angry Staff Officer on Twitter: "Tomorrow begins #ConfederateHeritageMonth in seven US states. Celebrate it by spreading the word that southern hegemony in secession was a lie - this thread celebrates all the southerners who remained loyal to the US, and to their oath.… https://t.co/nvgvH0Q33D"

Also, Alabama brothers David and William Birney. David would rise to division & corps command, William commanded black troops in combat. Both rose to the rank of major general and managed to be true to their country.

8e820e1b4e8edf59e7a9e6bc4f2c6a90.jpg
Click to expand...

George Thomas is personally one of my favorite officers from the Civil War.

George Henry Thomas - Wikipedia
 
yankintx said:
In the North there was a strong abolitionist movement. Your statement is incorrect, pick up a history book.
Click to expand...

What percent? There have always been decent people in the USA but sadly they are vastly outnumbered by deeply evil ones.
 
ralphcdp said:
The north, and Lincoln didn't give a **** about Blacks and slavery. The whole ****ing century after the CW tells the tale about that.
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.
--ca. August 1, 1858 Fragment on Democracy

I say when this government was first established it was the policy of its founders to prohibit the spread of slavery into the new Territories of the United States, where it had not existed. But Judge Douglas and his friends have broken up that policy and placed it upon a new basis by which it is to become national and perpetual.
--September 15, 1858 Debate at Jonesboro, Illinois

Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil.
--October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
 
Threegoofs said:
This is spot on.

But remember- the statues and hero worship and lost cause narrative didn’t really come around for about 50 years.

And we see to this day an undercurrent of neo-nazi support around the world.
Click to expand...

And I am on the record as stating I have no issue with Germany and the South honoring their war dead, its the loss of an entire generation of young men. But you dont honor the cause they died for.
 
ralphcdp said:
They only wanted their freedom and stunning hypocrites that those of the USA are, they said, "No, we were borne of the founding terrorists but you can't do what the founding terrorists did, seek freedom from an oppressive north whose only concern was, as always, MONEY. The super high tariff north didn't like the free trade south.
Click to expand...

:lamo

Are you serious?

You are actually defending people who literally went to war to continue owning slaves?

Wow. I get you know nothing about history, but even for you that’s hysterically ignorant.

The South explicitly said it was about slavery.

Repeatedly.
 
Threegoofs said:
LOL.

I guess they just did abolitionism for fun.
Click to expand...

As I have already mentioned there have always been some decent folks in the USA, a small minority.

"It never attracted many followers; only two percent of northerners were abolitionists, ... . "
 
Simon Wolf was a prominent attorney in Washington. During the Civil War, Wolf was detained for serving as attorney for Southern Jews charged with espionage and for his membership in B’nai B’rith. Accusing Wolf of being a traitor, Colonel Lafayette C. Baker of the War Department threatened him with imprisonment and called B’nai B’rith “a disloyal organization, which…is helping the traitors.” B'nai B'rith, would later go on to respectability in the 20th century, founding the Anti Defamation League to use public opinion and the court system to sue the pants off of people who expose treason.


20bfe6b3b537fd15589e9b6bd7169c28.jpg


Jewish Life in Mr. Lincoln’s City | Item #72

Anti-Defamation League - Wikipedia
 
yankintx said:
And I am on the record as stating I have no issue with Germany and the South honoring their war dead, its the loss of an entire generation of young men. But you dont honor the cause they died for.
Click to expand...

Yet when that honor somehow only happens when civil rights are expanded... the ‘honoring of war dead’ 100 years after the war is not really what it seems.
 
ralphcdp said:
Try as you might, one just can't polish pieces of ****.
Click to expand...

This particular turd has cursed America since it was shat out in Philly all those years ago.
 
Fledermaus said:
Incorrect.

I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.
--ca. August 1, 1858 Fragment on Democracy

I say when this government was first established it was the policy of its founders to prohibit the spread of slavery into the new Territories of the United States, where it had not existed. But Judge Douglas and his friends have broken up that policy and placed it upon a new basis by which it is to become national and perpetual.
--September 15, 1858 Debate at Jonesboro, Illinois

Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil.
--October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
Click to expand...

The debate over the extension of slavery to new territories was absolutely crucial to the lead up to the civil war, and the side which opposed it didn't do it on moral, 'human rights' ground. Oftentimes, the opposition to the expansion of slavery to new territories was couched in ways which prioritized white labor. The south wanted to extend slavery so that they would have enough votes to preserve the institution if northeastern abolitionists moved to abolish it, but the northerners who opposed that position did not often argue from a principled position of abolitionism. They argued from a position of protecting the honest, hardworking white man from unfair competition with negro slave labor. The move to prevent slave labor from extending to new territories in the 19th century would certainly be characterized as white nationalism today. And while I do not doubt that Lincoln personally opposed slavery, he was willing to compromise on the issue if it helped him politically, having famously stated that he would end the war even if it left every slave in chains.
 
Last edited:
truthatallcost said:
Benjamin F. Jonas, was a Democratic U.S. Senator from Louisiana and an officer in the Confederate States Army during the American Civil War. He was the third Jew to serve in the Senate. Despite his family's strong Republican connections, Benjamin Jonas cast his lot with Democrats & the South in the Civil War.


220px-Benjamin_F._Jonas_-_Brady-Handy.jpg




Benjamin F. Jonas - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Truthatallcost fascinated by Jews as usual. I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom