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Soviet ("Muscovite") vs. Nazi posters - amazing 100% similarity!

Jredbaron96 said:
So because 6% of the Bolshevik Party were Jewish, the Jews overwhelmingly supported Marxism? Are you really surprised that after a long history of antisemitism from the Russian Imperial Government, many Russian Jews were eager to overthrow it?

Seriously, what's your issue with Jews? I know they killed your Lord, but give me a break.
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Did you think that these were good arguments against the claim that Jews were Marxists?

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
Did you think that these were good arguments against the claim that Jews were Marxists?

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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They make more sense than your nonsensical argument that the world's Jewish population supported Marxism.

I don't know if you're actually an antisemite and I just haven't noticed it or if you think you're proving some kind of point. Did you pick up a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion recently and read too much into it?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
They make more sense than your nonsensical argument that the world's Jewish population supported Marxism.

I don't know if you're actually an antisemite and I just haven't noticed it or if you think you're proving some kind of point. Did you pick up a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion recently and read too much into it?
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You didn't prove the point wrong. You excused it. Perhaps you should read your post again.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
You didn't prove the point wrong. You excused it. Perhaps you should read your post again.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. Did Jews support Marxism? Yeah, some of them did. A lot of Russian Jews also supported overthrowing the Tsars, but that's a a given considering Imperial Russia's attitudes towards it's Jewish population.

What your posts imply is that you view the Jews as responsible for proliferating Marxism, and therefore they hold the blame for the rise of the Soviet Union and international communism as a result. Which is just ludicrous.
 
phattonez said:
You didn't prove the point wrong. You excused it. Perhaps you should read your post again.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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Hey look what I found, this look familiar?

7df.jpg
 
CEngelbrecht said:
No, those weren't nazis. Those were German Christians taking orders from nazis. Nazism at its core was atheist, an attempted return to paganism, using phrases taken from Nietzsche, such as "God is dead." Should be said, Hitler compromised much of that when it suited his cause, but so did even Stalin, when the fight against Hitler's invasion required it. Nazism and Communism were equally atheist.
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Right, good excuse. Christians were just following orders. Works every time at the war criminal trials.

But the point there is not whether nazis were atheists or theists . The point is that the nazis new how to work propaganda to motivate without actually following any of the theology or practice any of the tenets. Just as the dictators of russia did when spouting communist ideology but actually doing nothing that was communist.

You are aware that written on every german soldiers belt buckle were the words " in god we trust". Hardly an atheist slogan.


And all you do here is make an association of no real value. Atheism has no more to do with communism or nazism that does saying that nazis and communists were also right handed people. That some called themselves pagans or atheists does not mean that atheism has any real connection with either.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
All religions starts as philosophies. The only main difference between philosophers and prophets is that philosophers aren't often declared soothsayers in their own era.

And communism at its core claim to be godless. And then make soothsaying icons of their cult leaders, obviously. Suddenly Kim Jong-un is raised by a unicorn. Aparently human beings need to believe in a world, that doesn't exist. Then the ideology becomes the eternal religion instead, psychologically, there's no difference except semantics. They don't call dissidents not believing in the new cause "heretics", they call them "counter-revolutionaries", and instead of burning them alive, they put them on a firing squad.
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So basically what you are saying here is let us do philosophy in a really stupid way.

Yes, i am aware of what has happened sometimes in history. Are you holding this up as the actions we should do ?

The fact that the uneducated sheeple on this thread do react in that manner still is something to be deplored. Not held up and pretended that it is normal psychology of a person.

If you cannot see a difference between a philosophy and a theology then you have a problem not that there is no difference.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Yes, your ideology is very stupid. Good to see you accept that bud. You probably should have figured that out before now though; the fact that it has never been implemented without a massive death toll is kind of a dead give-away your ideology is despicable.

So in other words you are throwing a tantrum because you don’t want to face reality and screeching about “propagandists” because you are desperate to find an excuse for your hissy fit.

How does it feel knowing your ideology has been throughly rejected?
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It has not been rejected. It lives well today even in america. What has been rejected is your idiot version of communism which is nothing more than you trying to scare yourself like child.
 
soylentgreen said:
Right, good excuse. Christians were just following orders.
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Most soldiery are just dumb f**ks taking orders.

soylentgreen said:
Works every time at the war criminal trials.
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Not exactly, they got hanged anyway.

soylentgreen said:
But the point there is not whether nazis were atheists or theists. The point is that the nazis knew how to work propaganda to motivate without actually following any of the theology or practice any of the tenets. Just as the dictators of russia did when spouting communist ideology but actually doing nothing that was communist.
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Totally agree. The religions and ideologies have nothing to do with what people do. They're only the excuses for doing, what they would've done anyway. Ted Kaczynski's excuse was environmentalism.

soylentgreen said:
You are aware that written on every german soldiers belt buckle were the words "in god we trust". Hardly an atheist slogan.
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"Gott mit uns" was the old Prussian motto going back as far as 1700. And Hitler with his "Third Reich" retrospective was already mushy about anything traditionally Prussian and Kaiser-y, so he let the Wehrmacht keep it, also 'cause he needed their support for his "mission".

soylentgreen said:
And all you do here is make an association of no real value. Atheism has no more to do with communism or nazism that does saying that nazis and communists were also right handed people. That some called themselves pagans or atheists does not mean that atheism has any real connection with either.
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No, national socialism sought to mimick themselves after Nietzsche's writings, and his existentialism had declared God dead. But I agree, the nazis themselves could never figure out what they really meant, but so did the communists. No ideologies survive the first five minutes of combat.
 
soylentgreen said:
So basically what you are saying here is let us do philosophy in a really stupid way.
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That's the de facto outcome every time, init?

soylentgreen said:
If you cannot see a difference between a philosophy and a theology then you have a problem not that there is no difference.
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Ever read Ecclesiastes? That's 2300 year old existentialism turned dogma. The nazis turned Nietzsche into dogma, and the communists turned Marx into dogma. The only difference is age.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Most soldiery are just dumb f**ks taking orders.



Not exactly, they got hanged anyway.



Totally agree. The religions and ideologies have nothing to do with what people do. They're only the excuses for doing, what they would've done anyway. Ted Kaczynski's excuse was environmentalism.



"Gott mit uns" was the old Prussian motto going back as far as 1700. And Hitler with his "Third Reich" retrospective was already mushy about anything traditionally Prussian and Kaiser-y, so he let the Wehrmacht keep it, also 'cause he needed their support for his "mission".



No, national socialism sought to mimick themselves after Nietzsche's writings, and his existentialism had declared God dead. But I agree, the nazis themselves could never figure out what they really meant, but so did the communists. No ideologies survive the first five minutes of combat.
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The key word there is mimick. The russians did not actually utilise communist theory. They mimicked the words and did none of the actions.

That they used atheism does not reflect on atheism any more than they used guns reflect on guns. Otherwise americans would be shooting and mass murdering their minority groups.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
That's the de facto outcome every time, init?



Ever read Ecclesiastes? That's 2300 year old existentialism turned dogma. The nazis turned Nietzsche into dogma, and the communists turned Marx into dogma. The only difference is age.
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No not at all. That is what the uneducated sheeple of this thread do. But they do not reflect all people.

And what they do is to be a lesson learned not an effort to be repeated. Communism in the twenty first century is not the communism of the twentieth.
 
soylentgreen said:
The key word there is mimick. The russians did not actually utilise communist theory. They mimicked the words and did none of the actions.
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I agree. People have already made the choice of what to do, before they go looking for the excuse in the commas.

soylentgreen said:
That they used atheism does not reflect on atheism any more than they used guns reflect on guns. Otherwise americans would be shooting and mass murdering their minority groups.
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Some say they do.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. Did Jews support Marxism? Yeah, some of them did. A lot of Russian Jews also supported overthrowing the Tsars, but that's a a given considering Imperial Russia's attitudes towards it's Jewish population.

What your posts imply is that you view the Jews as responsible for proliferating Marxism, and therefore they hold the blame for the rise of the Soviet Union and international communism as a result. Which is just ludicrous.
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You started off posting this:

Jredbaron96 said:
Well for starters, most Nazis believed Marxism was a Jewish inspired plot to degrade Germany, so they saw the Soviet Union as in league with the Jews. This is of course ridiculous as evident by Russia's long history of antisemitism, but even so that was justification for many.
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Jews by and large supported the Marixst revolution and were overwhelmingly Marxists. So is the claim that Marxism was a Jewish inspired plot really so ridiculous? And let's not forget the Spartacist uprising in Germany, where Communists tried to do what they had done in Russia. Most of the leaders of that movement were Jews.
 
phattonez said:
Jews by and large supported the Marixst revolution and were overwhelmingly Marxists. So is the claim that Marxism was a Jewish inspired plot really so ridiculous?
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Jews comprised just 6% of the Bolshevik Party, barely higher than their national population as a percentage of Russia (roughly 5%), so the claim that the Jews supported the Marxist revolution isn't validated.

Now, most Jews did support the overthrow of Imperial Russia, but given the Tsarist's inclinations towards oppression for it's Jewish population that shouldn't surprise anyone. The fact that during the civil war virtually all sides targeted Jews at one point or another says something about how Jews were viewed.



And let's not forget the Spartacist uprising in Germany, where Communists tried to do what they had done in Russia. Most of the leaders of that movement were Jews.
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And most of them were from respectable, even wealthy backgrounds so they in turn were able to attend higher education, which we both know tends to produce more left wing thinkers. Liebknecht, Jogiches, Levine, Levi, Mehrig, and Toller all came from stable, even wealthy backgrounds that afforded them a better education than most.

The simple reality is that many Jews tended to be well off financially and lived in households that encouraged higher education, and in turn led them to become politically left wing as is true today. Of course, that's too coincidental, so naturally there must be some evil Jewish-Commie conspiracy, right?
 
CEngelbrecht said:
I agree. People have already made the choice of what to do, before they go looking for the excuse in the commas.



Some say they do.
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They can say so but can they show it to be so.

I could point out how many children have been sexually molested by priests and within theistic structures such as christian schools and christian orphanages. But i doubt that many christians would agree that from this the argument can be made that pedophillia and christianity are inseparably linked.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Why would the outcome be any different? The commas are the same.
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No they are not. Communism is a philosophy not a theology. It is not restricted to what some past philosopher has said. Marx was a product of his time and his version of communism is something to be studied and learned from. Not something that has to be taken as gospel never to be changed, never to be questioned.

Marx lived in a time when violent revolution was seen as the only possible way of breaking the status quo of the time. That is no longer true and communism is seen more as an economic philosophy involving worker run businesses than a political philosophy for over running a government.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Jews comprised just 6% of the Bolshevik Party, barely higher than their national population as a percentage of Russia (roughly 5%), so the claim that the Jews supported the Marxist revolution isn't validated.

Now, most Jews did support the overthrow of Imperial Russia, but given the Tsarist's inclinations towards oppression for it's Jewish population that shouldn't surprise anyone. The fact that during the civil war virtually all sides targeted Jews at one point or another says something about how Jews were viewed.





And most of them were from respectable, even wealthy backgrounds so they in turn were able to attend higher education, which we both know tends to produce more left wing thinkers. Liebknecht, Jogiches, Levine, Levi, Mehrig, and Toller all came from stable, even wealthy backgrounds that afforded them a better education than most.

The simple reality is that many Jews tended to be well off financially and lived in households that encouraged higher education, and in turn led them to become politically left wing as is true today. Of course, that's too coincidental, so naturally there must be some evil Jewish-Commie conspiracy, right?
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This kind of rhetoric would put a right winger on an SPLC hate list.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Oh spare us. Not even terrorists would think of US soldiers as capitalists in black suits and top hats. They claim to fight imperialism, which is something that existed long before there was ever capitalism.
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As though the communist Russians were good to them in Afghanistan. :roll:
 
soylentgreen said:
No they are not. Communism is a philosophy not a theology. It is not restricted to what some past philosopher has said. Marx was a product of his time and his version of communism is something to be studied and learned from. Not something that has to be taken as gospel never to be changed, never to be questioned.

Marx lived in a time when violent revolution was seen as the only possible way of breaking the status quo of the time. That is no longer true and communism is seen more as an economic philosophy involving worker run businesses than a political philosophy for over running a government.
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Karl Marx was wrong.
 
soylentgreen said:
In some thing yes. he predicted england would be the first communist country. He may yet be proven right but so far no.

Other than that, wrong about what?
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His ideology doesn't work.
 
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