Soviet ("Muscovite") vs. Nazi posters - amazing 100% similarity!

Jredbaron96 said:

No, because we defeated Japan and Germany by mobilizing a mass level of national resources and manpower, which resulted in massive growth of exports and GDP as we bankrolled the Allied War effort then afterwards transferred our mobilized war time population to peace time by taking the role of the world's leading industrial power and creating a massive middle class through the GI bill.

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Jredbaron96 said:

The United States Government doesn't just wake up one day and decide that it's a good day to mobilize millions of Americans into the work force through massive spending programs and then grant 12 million people a free ride through college while subsidizing the rebuilding of Europe.

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Actually, you are missing (or ignoring) some key data in making this decision. Now let me correct you a bit.

The biggest change in the US after WWII was the acceptance that industrialization had changed the nation forever. And the need to supply the US during the war had driven that home like never before.

In 1930, over 21% of the US population was involved in agriculture. By 1946, this had dropped to just over 10%. Machinery was making people obsolete in agriculture, and the nation needed to adjust quickly. The work was by that point largely industrial, and a big part of the GI Bill was to help returning GIs spend a few years I reeducation so as to not flood the workforce with millions of returning (and unskilled) workers.

And this trend continues even today, where now less than 3% of the US population makes it's living directly off of agriculture. And with the rapid decline in industry over the last 40 years, we are now moving more towards a service based economy.

And not all of the GIs even used those benefits. Neither of my grandfathers did, both returned directly to work. But that group of more highly educated individuals who had an interest in seeing the US move forward made things like the dominance of US computer power and landing man on the moon possible. And prevented us from sinking into an even larger recession than we did, as it tempered the flow of veterans back into the workforce.

And yes, we did have a recession after WWII from 1945-1946. And another in 1949 (at the time those vets were graduating college and entering the workforce). The real "post-war boom" that most people think of did not really happen until the 1950's. It took years to get our economy and industry fully converted back to a peacetime economy. The last half of the 1940's looked largely like the last half of the 1930's. A 1948 Ford looked remarkably like a 1937 Ford. It was not until the 1950's that things really started to change in the US.

But as typical, you are trying to steer the data to confirm your beliefs, instead of having your beliefs fit the data. And as typical, your beliefs are largely missing the mark.

Oozlefinch said:

Actually, you are...

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Jesus Christ Almighty man, when the **** are you gonna learn that info dumping random blurbs of information when you clearly have no idea of the context of the discussion doesn't contribute anything to this?

Or did you just see a random post and decide you needed to info dump a bunch of **** that completely misses the mark on what the conversation is about.

Learn to ****ing read the discussion and posts for five ****ing minutes instead of just jumping in and thinking you're about to grace everyone with your knowledge.

Now let me correct you a bit.

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Shut the **** up.

Jredbaron96 said:

Jesus Christ Almighty man, when the **** are you gonna learn that info dumping random blurbs of information when you clearly have no idea of the context of the discussion doesn't contribute anything to this?

Or did you just see a random post and decide you needed to info dump a bunch of **** that completely misses the mark on what the conversation is about.

Learn to ****ing read the discussion and posts for five ****ing minutes instead of just jumping in and thinking you're about to grace everyone with your knowledge.



Shut the **** up.

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Wow, somebody really got triggered I see. Do not even try to say what I said was wrong, simply attack me as if that proves something.

Goodbye.

Oozlefinch said:

Wow, somebody really got triggered I see. Do not even try to say what I said was wrong, simply attack me as if that proves something.

Goodbye.

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Because what you said wasn't at all relevant to the context of the conversation going on, which you would have known had you actually bothered to read it.

Instead you just saw an opportunity to make yourself look smart by infodumping a blurb that is not at all relevant to what was being discussed.

How bout in the future you actually ****ing read what is bring talked about instead of taking one glance and assuming you know the rest.

Because I know you didn't, I'll explain it here: Someone else claimed the US got no benefits out of fighting WW2, and I said otherwise. Maybe you should figure that out next time.

But of course this isn't the first time you've jumped into a conversation and completely missed the point, because you're too obsessed with the idea of making yourself look smart.

Jredbaron96 said:

You have a fundamentally bad problem of understanding what is possible and what is probable.

The United States Government doesn't just wake up one day and decide that it's a good day to mobilize millions of Americans into the work force through massive spending programs and then grant 12 million people a free ride through college while subsidizing the rebuilding of Europe.

You can't keep hand waving away details like "What's the justification" and "Well how do they do it without the X,Y, and Z factors coming into play" and pretending that presents a coherent and logical argument. The point of debating alternate history is making educated suggestions and conjecture based on established facts and reasoning; all you've done is kept saying "Well that's what they should've done" or "that's what I would have done". It reads like a bad alt history fanfiction where you're just blatanty inserting your personal views to fit the narrative to your beliefs.

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The happenstance of why it occurred does not fundamentally change the causation. I may one day decide not to go to work because I have a bad headache. Because of that, maybe I stay home, and maybe that day my workplace burns down. Now I may say that the headache saved my life. That's not strictly true, but I say it out of convenience. Not being there saved my life, it just so happens that because I had a headache I wasn't there.

In the same way, the war absolutely shifted the way that we did things, but it doesn't mean that we became an industrial powerhouse because of the war. That occurred because of our economic policy, which was influenced by the war.

phattonez said:

In the same way, the war absolutely shifted the way that we did things, but it doesn't mean that we became an industrial powerhouse because of the war. That occurred because of our economic policy, which was influenced by the war.

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An economic policy that doesn't happen without the war. That kind of national undertaking is not a happenstance.

Jredbaron96 said:

An economic policy that doesn't happen without the war. That kind of national undertaking is not a happenstance.

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Then it's not the war that was responsible, but the economic policy.

phattonez said:

Then it's not the war that was responsible, but the economic policy.

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You can keep trying to separate them all you want but that economic policy doesn't occur without the breakout of war. Mass mobilizations of industry, populace, rationing and price controls are not something country's do on a whim.

Harshaw said:

It's an inevitable outcome of a totalitarian command economy. All must go according to plan, and if that means people die, it's a small sacrifice for the Greater Good(TM).

Also, in order for it to have a prayer of working, everyone must be on board. Which means there can be no dissent, because dissent breeds more dissent, and it all collapses. So, if that means civil rights like freedom of speech and freedom of the press are abolished, it's a small sacrifice for the Greater Good(TM).

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The Gulag Archipelago: What We Know Now, and Why it Matters

ipsofacto said:

Capitalists killed 1,000,000 innocent Iraqis under President GW Bush. Why would anyone want to be Capitalist?

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To the best of my knowledge, fatalities in Iraq that can be verified amount to 288,000. Of these, 206,107 were civilians. However, it should be noted that the true total is higher as not all deaths were officially documented due to the ongoing chaos and violence in the country.

Also, most of those who died were killed by sectarian violence which took place after the Saddam regime was removed. It is certainly not the case that all 206,107 civilians were killed by US or other foreign troops.

That said, a number of atrocities were carried out by US troops such as the Haditha massacre in 2005, in which 24 civilians were murdered in cold blood by US soldiers. The guilty soldiers were put on trial but ultimately all charges were dropped, leading many in Iraq to disbelief at the obvious failure of the trial to result in justice.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that capitalism, an ideology which focuses on economic activity, has any relevance to those deaths.

PersianCavalry said:

To the best of my knowledge, fatalities in Iraq that can be verified amount to 288,000. Of these, 206,107 were civilians. However, it should be noted that the true total is higher as not all deaths were officially documented due to the ongoing chaos and violence in the country.

Also, most of those who died were killed by sectarian violence which took place after the Saddam regime was removed. It is certainly not the case that all 206,107 civilians were killed by US or other foreign troops.

That said, a number of atrocities were carried out by US troops such as the Haditha massacre in 2005, in which 24 civilians were murdered in cold blood by US soldiers. The guilty soldiers were put on trial but ultimately all charges were dropped, leading many in Iraq to disbelief at the obvious failure of the trial to result in justice.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that capitalism, an ideology which focuses on economic activity, has any relevance to those deaths.

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its nothing compere to what locals do to each other every day. "ongoing chaos and violence in the country. " have had nothing to do with USA, its all about power shift in this country and luck od support for democracy in all major communities .


by the way, do you know that Koba planed to occupy Persia and introduce in Persia commie slavery , and Brits & Americans saved Persia (much like Turkey) from the Marxist hell ?