Mongol Juchi "Orthodox" Church cuts ties with Constantinople over Ukraine

Litwin said:

more :
https://www.persee.fr/doc/cmr_0008-0160_1982_num_23_2_1950

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Hate to break it to you bud, but most of Russia remained outside the direct rule of the Mongolian Empire....and pointing out that Muscovy was the most influential of the Russian regimes forced to nominal obedience does not actually benefit your argument in any way, because the Mongol successor state that "sat on the Volga" was destroyed five hundred years ago.

Here's where the term actually came from.

"The title Tsar is derived from the Latin title for the Roman emperors, Caesar.[2] In comparison to the corresponding Latin word "imperator", the Byzantine Greek term basileus was used differently depending on whether it was in a contemporary political context or in a historical or Biblical context. In the history of the Greek language, basileus had originally meant something like "potentate". It gradually approached the meaning of "king" in the Hellenistic Period, and it came to designate "emperor" after the inception in the Roman Empire. As a consequence, Byzantine sources continued to call the Biblical and ancient kings "basileus" even when that word had come to mean "emperor" when referring to contemporary monarchs (while it was never applied to Western European kings, whose title was transliterated from Latin "rex" as ῥήξ, or to other monarchs, for whom designations such as ἄρχων "leader", "chieftain" were used).

As the Greek "basileus" was consistently rendered as "tsar" in Slavonic translations of Greek texts, the dual meaning was transferred into Church Slavonic. Thus, "tsar" was not only used as an equivalent of Latin "imperator" (in reference to the rulers of the Byzantine Empire, the Holy Roman Empire and to native rulers) but was also used to refer to Biblical rulers and ancient kings."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar#Meaning_in_Slavic_languages

In case you forgot, bud, the Roman and Byzantine Empires were around long before the Mongols headed into Russia.

So your argument is even more laughable then previous thought.

Tigerace117 said:

:lamo

Got to admit, that picture made me laugh

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Hey, with positions as laughable as that, someone's gotta crack jokes. We can't all be stone-faced debunkers, citing dates and etymology in the face of the ludicrous.

Jesse Booth said:

Hey, with positions as laughable as that, someone's gotta crack jokes. We can't all be stone-faced debunkers, citing dates and etymology in the face of the ludicrous.

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True, very true.

Another dumb thing he does is always put "Russia" in quotes for some odd reason.

It must bother him deeply that the supposedly inferior "Mongol" Russians ruled the Baltic States for so long.

Tigerace117 said:

True, very true.

Another dumb thing he does is always put "Russia" in quotes for some odd reason.

It must bother him deeply that the supposedly inferior "Mongol" Russians ruled the Baltic States for so long.

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I've only seen this kind of nuttiness with Jews before. Maybe OP is part of the Zionist plot to eat all the white babies, and just wants to deflect attention from the Truth?

Jesse Booth said:

I've only seen this kind of nuttiness with Jews before. Maybe OP is part of the Zionist plot to eat all the white babies, and just wants to deflect attention from the Truth?

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He seems to have an odd hatred of Mongolians and Muslims, so it’s quite possible .

Jesse Booth said:

I've only seen this kind of nuttiness with Jews before. Maybe OP is part of the Zionist plot to eat all the white babies, and just wants to deflect attention from the Truth?

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How dare you consider zionists in your claims, it was the visigoths that made the plot to eat all the white babies, the zionists only copied it.

Fyi I googled mongol juchi, only thing that kept coming up was mongol jochi, only thin on google I can find with mongol juchi lead to this site and litwins posts.

Jesse Booth said:

It's little wonder that the modern Mongolians revere Khan like we here in the west romanticize Alexander the Great. A benevolent, forward-thinking ruler, but by far the worst living enemy you could possibly have.

I've been meaning to get an analysis of my DNA from Ancestry.com for a while now. Maybe I'll check to see if I'm one of the Khan's millions of living descendants soon! :lol:

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Well Jesse,I cannot agree with you regarding Ghengis Khan but I will give you one example...His Capital Korkuram was an open City to all Faiths,he conquered China and had his own Dynasty..the Yaun


He promoted on Ability not Nepotism...prior to invading anywhere he would ask if you are with us or against us,peace if agreed to ...all out war if not


You and I have been Brainwashed as where we were younger, Ghengis was Demonised by the Christians.....when the Knights Templars were fighting against Saladin the Kurdish leader in the Holy Land during the 2nd Crusade,the Templars sent a mission to the Great Khan to help the Templars to eliminate Saladin...The Khan responded that on principal he never helped CANNIBALS (never taught that a school!!!!)


I delved into the history of the Crusades and found out that a forward party of this organization did infact CANNIBALIZE their foe...


As I said Ghengis had an open Court,once a group of people from central Asia in Persia(Iran)the original 50 virgins on death and paradise,drugged up to the eyeballs got into his inner scanctem sic and tried to kill the Great Khan...the 10 odd interlopers were killed on the spot...he directed his troops to find these people and Wipe Them From The Face of the Earth...these people were the Assassins and today because of them we have the word Assassination and its derivatives.


A few escaped to the Mountains of todays Syria,today their titular head is none other than the Aga Khan,one of the richest men on earth!!!!!!


Ghengis got Bad Press from the Christians in the main but still his military tactics are still used.


The reason or one of them that the Mongols did so well was the ability of their horsemanship,the invention of the reverse Bow and ability to shoot forwards,sideways and backwards...these horsemen also carried slabs of meat under their saddles,thus at the end of the day had,fresh? cooked meat to consume.


You should read up on the Great Man,his children,who became the Golden Horde etc., and later the Great Mogaul Empire in India...he really was 100's of year before his time. steve

beerftw said:

How dare you consider zionists in your claims, it was the visigoths that made the plot to eat all the white babies, the zionists only copied it.

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Methinks you are both wrong the visigoths often killed babies just after birth,much like King Herrod at Jesus's birth but I doubt they ate them(often bias reporting by the Romans who hated them and who the Visigoths overthrew)...as for Jews some claim that they would murder a Christian child usually a boy and use the blood to make Matzos(Unleaven Bread) but I would think this is Anti-Semitism from the Middle Ages as they as a minority were blamed for every thing by the Christians if there was a Drought,Flood whatever.


Much like Trump blames Mexicans and others for all Americas woes...the Dickhead...steve

Tigerace117 said:

He seems to have an odd hatred of Mongolians and Muslims, so it’s quite possible .

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dont you see here the clear similarities?

beerftw said:

Fyi I googled mongol juchi, only thing that kept coming up was mongol jochi, only thin on google I can find with mongol juchi lead to this site and litwins posts.

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use another (non academic term, made up in 18c Poland ) the golden horde

"
Ukrainian conflict is between ‘heirs of Kyivan Rus’ and ‘heirs of Golden Horde’

“The Ukrainian-Russian conflict is to a significant degree a conflict between the heirs of Kyivan Rus [Ukraine] and the heirs of the Golden Horde” [Moscow], according to Andrey Piontkovsky, and one of its key results will be “an intensification of the swallowing of Russia by China.”

In the course of a wide-ranging interview yesterday with Artem Dekhtyarenko of Ukraine’s Apostrophe news agency, the Russian commentator argues that it is a mistake to see what is taking place in Moscow as “a strengthening of the ties of Russia and China.”

Instead, he argues, it is part of a long ongoing process that has accelerated in the course of the Ukrainian crisis of “the swallowing of Russia by China.” At the recent Victory Day parade in Moscow, something “symbolic” happened that had never occurred “in the thousand year history of Russia:” three units of the Chinese military took part.

“For the Chinese who devote enormous importance to symbols,” Piontkovsky says, “this was as it were a parade of their victory” because it represented “a foretaste of their complete victory over Russia.”

A year ago, the Chinese clearly signaled that this is how they view things: Beijing’s prime minister told a gathering in St. Petersburg that “you have big territories, and we have many Chinese workers. Let’s unite these resources for the strengthening of our common economic potential.”

The Chinese had never permitted themselves to express such notions so boldly, the Russian analyst continues; but it is clear that they now have “complete confidence that having cut itself off from Western civilization, Putin’s Russia will become an easy catch” for Beijing.

That is all the more so, Piontkovsky continues, because there are influential people in Russia itself who “welcome this process” because they “consider the Golden Horde to have been the golden age of Russian history.” Thus, “the swallowing of Russia by China is a return to its deepest historical roots.”

Those who think in this way have a certain measure of truth on their side, the Russian commentator concludes, and that in turn means that the current conflict between Ukraine and Russia is “to a significant degree” a conflict between the two states these two countries emerged from, Kyivan Rus in the case of Ukraine and the Golden Horde in the case of Russia.
-Andrey Piontkovsky, prominent Russian scientist, political writer and analyst


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde

Litwin said:

dont you see here the clear similarities?

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Lol what.

You are attempting to use a Disney movie as part of your argument?

Are you serious?

And no, superficial similarities in building design means nothing, especially given that Arab traders went just about everywhere for hundreds of years.

Tigerace117 said:

True, very true.

Another dumb thing he does is always put "Russia" in quotes for some odd reason.

It must bother him deeply that the supposedly inferior "Mongol" Russians ruled the Baltic States for so long.

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The Mongols were never INFERIOR,you are just SPEWING the Christian Negative Attitude towards the Mongols and Ghengis himself...and it's WRONG

theliq said:

The Mongols were never INFERIOR,you are just SPEWING the Christian Negative Attitude towards the Mongols and Ghengis himself...and it's WRONG

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You very clearly have serious reading comprehension issues.

Note I said “supposedly” inferior.

I am referring to Litwin calling Russia a “Mongol state” as an insult.

Tigerace117 said:

Lol what.

You are attempting to use a Disney movie as part of your argument?

Are you serious?

And no, superficial similarities in building design means nothing, especially given that Arab traders went just about everywhere for hundreds of years.

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But Tigerace, they have historical mushroom towers, that means Russia has a Mongolian government! Just like India and Turkey!

Tigerace117 said:

Lol what.

You are attempting to use a Disney movie as part of your argument?

Are you serious?

And no, superficial similarities in building design means nothing, especially given that Arab traders went just about everywhere for hundreds of years.

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Muscovite architecture is clearly Oriental , Asiatic with other worlds : Mongolian

"Comments by Professor Timothy Snyder on the unveiling of a statue to Volodymyr the Great

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Karl Marx : "....The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern Russia is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

The Mokshas (also Mokshans, Moksha people, in Moksha: Мокшет/Mokšet) are a Mordvinian ethnic group belonging to the Volgaic branch of the Finno-Ugric peoples[3] who live in the Russian Federation, mostly near the Volga and Moksha rivers,[4] a tributary of the Oka River.

Their native language is Mokshan, one of the two surviving members of the Mordvinic branch of the Uralic language family. According to the 1994 Russian census, 49% of the autochthonal Finnic population in Mordovia identified themselves as Mokshas, totaling more than 180,000 people.[5] Most Mokshas belong to the Russian Orthodox Church; other religions practised by Mokshas include Lutheranism[6] and paganism."

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Muscovy the successor of Mongol Empire - YouTube

A history programme filmed by NHK Japan.

English translation:

0:02 The Golden Horde in "Russia" was the longest lasting regime of the four Mongolian Khanates, however the internal conflicts weakened Golden Horde in 15th century. then, an empire centered in Moscow started its rise, "Russian" Empire, was like a brother to the Horde.

0:28 Uspensky sobor, Cathedral of the Dormition in "Russia" . The place of the "Russian" enthronement ceremony. The influence of 250 years Mongol domination was there.

0:36 An era of Ivan IV (1530-84), about 1/3 of the "Russian" aristocracy was the blood-line from Mongol.

1:02 To fight with the outer-power of Mongol (Crimean Khanate), he began with making the aristocracy as an ally. He did one curious plan.

1:32 He resigned his throne to Simeon Bekbulatovich who was a direct descendant of Genghis Khan.

2:14 Ivan succeeded getting the inner-power of Mongol. The next year, he went back to the state by given back from Simeon.

2:38 By the ceremony, Ivan IV became a successor of Mongol, strengthened its power to have "Russia".

2:56 The "Russian" Empire expanded to Siberia and Central Asia by using the authority of Mongol.

3:29 Unlike the faded Kiev, the new power Moscow rose.

3:50 Ivan I (?-1340) approached Hahn & got a right to rule Rus. Moscow was developed dramatically in his days.

4:09 In 12nd century before Mongol entered, Moscow was a small village in woods. The center of it [Kremlin] was a simple wooden fort.

4:31 During Ivan I, the development increased dramatically. The wooden became stone etc, 2/3 scale of today was seen.

4:56 Moscow achieved wealth and power under the Mongols. Kremlin grew with it. In 15th century, the scale was nearly today. It's been the center of Russian Politics, Military affairs and Economy. Some say, that the word "Kremlin" was from the Mongolian word "Klemm", which means "fortress".

5:38 Ironically, Kremlin and today's center "Moscow" were developed under the power of Mongol.

5:56 Many churches of Russian Orthodox Church in Kremlin were started to be built during the days of Ivan I. The days under Mongol, also the days that the Russian Orthodox Church developed.

6:31 "Russian" Orthodox Church prayed for Hahn & was given the special right "Tax Free". When Mongol entered, the abbey was less than 100. It became 270 after it. Mongol took in [Moscow & Russian Orthodox Church] and progressed its force on Rus.

7:11 It didn't reach the north-west at first. It gradually went in. Moscow & "Russian" Orthodox Church helped it. There was a symbolic event in Pskov in 1327. One of the feudal lords in Rus ran into Pskov, on a charge of rising in revolt against Mongol.

8:08 According to the Russian chronicle, he was an influential person as a rival with Ivan I. His name was Aleksandr. Khan of Mongolia made the allied forces with Ivan I of Moscow & went Pskov. The people of Pskov took a posture to fight to support Aleksandr. At the very moment about to fight, a surprising thing happened. The Russian Orthodox Church took sides with pagan, Mongol. It expelled Aleksandr and people of Pskov. It had an overwhelming effect. Aleksandr had to escape further from Pskov.

8:58 Moscow & Russian Orthodox Church cooperated with Mongolia. 2 big power that led Russia later, increased its power in the Tatar-Mongol Yoke.

9:18 Karl Marx (1818-83) said like this, "Moscow, promoted under Mongol-Tatar. The bloody dishonor of the Mongol slavery became the cradle of Moscow. The current Russia is an extension of it".

9:48 The Mother Capital of Rus (Kiev) was shadowed. The region "Ukraine" was born under Mongolian days. The origin was "outside" to mean "Frontier".

9:49 An Ukraine man talking, "If you look at Russians, you will see Mongol features on thier faces, Mongols and Russians were mixed with each others, Russians are not Slavic..."

10:39 The old city Krakow, Ukraine. There's a festival carried out every year in June. The starring figure is a man wearing a costume of the Mongolian General + riding on the horse.He walks dancing in a parade with an orchestra, all day long. He taps people on the shoulder with a wooden hammer. A happiness is said to visit by it.

"
Images of totalitarianism spring to mind when one at first ponders that which is Russia: from the current times of Vladimir Putin’s presidency, to when the Soviet Union was still a nation, and even before to Imperial Russia. However, in Kievan Rus, a form of democracy did exist. Comprised of all free male citizens, the veche (вече) was a town assembly that met to discuss such matters as war and peace, law, and invitation or expulsion of princes to the veche’s respective town; all cities in Kievan Russia had a veche. It was essentially a forum for civic affairs to discuss and resolve problems. However, this democratic institution suffered severe curtailment under the Mongols.

By far the most influential of the assemblies were in Novgorod and Kiev. In Novgorod, a special veche bell (in other towns, church bells were ordinary used for this purpose) was created for calling the townspeople together for an assembly, and in theory, anyone could ring it. In the times after the Mongols had conquered the majority of Kievan Russia, veches ceased to exist in all cities except Novgorod, Pskov, and others in the northwestern regions. Veches in those cities continued to function and develop until Moscow itself subjugated them in the late fifteenth century. However, today the spirit of the veche as a public forum has been revived in several cities across Russia, including especially Novgorod.

Of great importance to the Mongol overlords was census tabulation, which allowed for the collection of taxes. To support censuses, the Mongols imposed a special dual system of regional administration headed by military governors, the basqaqi (баскаки), and/or civilian governors, the darugi (даругы). Essentially, the basqaqi were given the responsibility of directing the activities of rulers in the areas that were resistant or had challenged Mongol authority. The darugi were civilian governors that oversaw those regions of the empire that had submitted without a fight or that were considered already pacified to Mongol forces (Ostrowski, 273). However, the offices of the basqaqi and the darugi, while occasionally overlapping in authority and purpose did not necessarily always rule at the same time.

As we know from history, the ruling princes of Kievan Russia did not trust the Mongolian ambassadors that came to discuss peace with them in the early 1200s; the princes regrettably put the ambassadors of Genghis Khan to the sword and before long paid dearly. Thus, in the thirteenth century the basqaqi were stationed in the conquered lands to subjugate the people and authorize even the day-to-day activities of the princes. Furthermore, in addition to ensuring the the census, the basqaqi oversaw conscription of the local populace (Martin, 150).

Existing sources and research indicates that the basqaqi had largely disappeared from the Rus’ lands by the mid-fourteenth century, as the Rus more or less accepted the Mongol overlords. As the basqaqi left, the darugi replaced them in power. However, unlike the basqaqi, the darugi were not based in the confines of the lands of the Rus; in fact, they were stationed in Sarai, the old capital of the Golden Horde located not far from present-day Volgograd. The darugi functioned mainly as experts on the lands of the Rus’ and advised the khan accordingly. While the responsibility of collecting and delivering tribute and conscripts had belonged to the basqaqi, with the transition from the basqaqi to the darugi these duties we actually transferred to the princes themselves when the khan saw that the princes could complete such tasks (Martin, 151).

The first census taken by the Mongols occurred in 1257, just seventeen years after their conquest of Rus’ lands. The population was divided into multiples of ten, a system that had been employed by the Chinese and later adopted by the Mongols who extended its use over the entirety of their empire; the census served as the primary purpose for conscription as well as for taxation. This practice was carried on by Moscow after it stopped acknowledging the Horde in 1480. The practice fascinated foreign visitors to Russia, to whom large-scale censuses were still unknown. One such visitor, Sigismund von Herberstein from Hapsburg made note of the fact that every two or three years, the prince conducted a census throughout the land (Wittfogel, 638). Census taking would not become widespread in Europe until the early 19th century. One significant observation that we must make is that the extent to which the Russians so thoroughly conducted the census was not achieved elsewhere in Europe for another 120 years or so, during the Age of Absolutism. The impact of the Mongol Empire at least in this area was obviously deep and effective and helped to create a strong central government for Russia.

One important institution that the basqaqi oversaw and maintained was the yam (a system of posts), which was constructed to provide food, bedding, horses, and either coaches or sleds, according to the season (Hosking, 89). At first constructed by the Mongols, the yam allowed relatively rapid movement of important communiqués between the khans and their local leaders, as well as a method of quickly dispatching envoys, local or foreign, between the various principalities across the vast the empire. Each post had horses ready for use by authorized persons as well as to replace tired horses for especially long journeys. Each post was usually located about a day’s ride from the nearest post. The local people were obliged to maintain the posts, to feed the horses, and to meet the needs of emissaries traveling through their posts.

T.he system was quite efficient. Another report by emissary Sigismund von Herberstein of the Hapsburgs stated that the yam system allowed him to travel 500 kilometers (from Novgorod to Moscow) within 72 hours .... (Wittfogel, 639-40). The yam system helped the Mongols to maintain tight control over their empire. During the twilight years of the Mongol’s hold on Russia in the late fifteenth century, Prince Ivan III decided to continue the use of the idea of the system of the yam in order to keep an established system of communication and intelligence. However, the idea of a postal system as we know it today would not come into existence until after the death of Peter the Great in the early 1700s." Russia, the successor of Mongol Empire | History Forum

"
Professor Jack Weatherford asserts that the "Russian " word "Ura (Ура)" comes from the Mongolian "Hurree", used by Mongol armies and spread throughout the world during the Mongol Empire of the 13th century.

According to Jean Paul Roux the word "Hurree" comes from Old Turkish/Mongolian, in use until medieval times. In his book, History of Turk/Mongols he states:

...while attacking to their enemies, they (Turk/Mongols) used to shout "Urah!" which means "Come on, hit!" (In modern Mongolian 'Hurree', modern Turkish 'Vur Hadi!')."

The "Russian" KGB originated from the Mongol spy system. Before invading a country the mongols would send in spy's dressed as merchants to gather information and spread false rumors. They would spread tales such as the mongols being demons and exaggerate the size of their armies. The mongols also let people escape after sacking a town that didn't surrender to spread fear to the other towns. While conquering china they didn't have siege equipment so they would drive the Chinese prisoners they captured before their armies to take enemy arrows. They would also created dummies and put them on their spare mounts. This made their armies seem much bigger than they were.

All and all their campaigns were designed to install fear and awe to their enemies through propaganda and deception. This led to their fearsome reputation of being unbeatable.

Jesse Booth said:

But Tigerace, they have historical mushroom towers, that means Russia has a Mongolian government! Just like India and Turkey!

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The atomic bomb made a mushroom shaped cloud.....oh no! America must have a Mongolian government too!


:roll::mrgreen:

Litwin said:

Muscovite architecture is clearly Oriental , Asiatic with other worlds : Mongolian

Karl Marx : "....The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern Russia is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

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In other words, you continue to operate under the delusion---born out of your racial hatreds---that superficial building design means.....anything, actually.

Which really does expose you quite a bit.

The real question, of course, is who cares?

Who cares how the Russians design their buildings?

Who cares that there are lots of ethnic groups in Russia?

Why is any of this supposed to matter?

Litwin said:

The "Russian" KGB originated from the Mongol spy system. Before invading a country the mongols would send in spy's dressed as merchants to gather information and spread false rumors. They would spread tales such as the mongols being demons and exaggerate the size of their armies. The mongols also let people escape after sacking a town that didn't surrender to spread fear to the other towns. While conquering china they didn't have siege equipment so they would drive the Chinese prisoners they captured before their armies to take enemy arrows. They would also created dummies and put them on their spare mounts. This made their armies seem much bigger than they were.

All and all their campaigns were designed to install fear and awe to their enemies through propaganda and deception. This led to their fearsome reputation of being unbeatable.

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You do realize that the exact same techniques had been in use since the beginning of time....right? Claiming that the KGB was descended from the "Mongol spy system" is moronic.

Tigerace117 said:

You do realize that the exact same techniques had been in use since the beginning of time....right? Claiming that the KGB was descended from the "Mongol spy system" is moronic.

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really ? whats about NKVD and Oprichniki so typical for the mongol states terror " police" ? still no similarity?

Litwin said:

really ? whats about NKVD and Oprichniki so typical for the mongol states terror " police" ? still no similarity?

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Yep, none whatsoever. There have been secret police organizations across the world for hundreds of years well before the NKVD. There is nothing inherent to a "Mongol state" about such an organization.