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73 years ago today, WWII was brought to an end

Who won World War 2?
 
gulfman said:
Who won World War 2?
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Gulf an:

The Soviet Union and the USA won WWII. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting and dying, defeating the bulk of the German and some other Axis militaries and in doing so won a thick buffer zone of subservient client states to shield the USSR from the next possible invasion from the West and was also able to exploit economically those satellite states. The USA paid much less in blood and treasure and got "the Grand Area", a short-lived atomic weapons monopoly and economic, military and political influence/hegemony after the war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Gulf an:

The Soviet Union and the USA won WWII. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting and dying, defeating the bulk of the German and some other Axis militaries and in doing so won a thick buffer zone of subservient client states to shield the USSR from the next possible invasion from the West and was also able to exploit economically those satellite states. The USA paid much less in blood and treasure and got "the Grand Area", a short-lived atomic weapons monopoly and economic, military and political influence/hegemony after the war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Your final sentence says so much that many Americans have forgotten or never knew. The "happy days" of the 1950s and 1960s were a result of the US being the one major industrial power to come out of WWII unscathed and with the national reputation relatively intact.
 
Evilroddy said:
Gulf an:

The Soviet Union and the USA won WWII. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting and dying, defeating the bulk of the German and some other Axis militaries and in doing so won a thick buffer zone of subservient client states to shield the USSR from the next possible invasion from the West and was also able to exploit economically those satellite states. The USA paid much less in blood and treasure and got "the Grand Area", a short-lived atomic weapons monopoly and economic, military and political influence/hegemony after the war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Without American lend- lease the USSR never could have stayed afloat in the first place. Not to mention, of course, that most of the Russian bleeding was self inflicted; had they not decided to murder their top officers, their casulties would have been far lower.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Without American lend- lease the USSR never could have stayed afloat in the first place. Not to mention, of course, that most of the Russian bleeding was self inflicted; had they not decided to murder their top officers, their casulties would have been far lower.
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If the USSR fell, tell me what the result would be?
 
OldFatGuy said:
If only it were true.

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local...cle_41bc3086-519b-59ed-9d68-6bd8a128c26f.html

By 1946 Chinese Nationalist were in a full blown civil war with Chinese Communists. American troops fought alongside the Nationalists.

The wars have never stopped, the venues are smaller, the deaths all too real for American troops.
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No, American troops did not fight alongside the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War.

You need to get your history from someone other than this Monte Martin clown (whose link you posted is behind a paywall).
 
Evilroddy said:
Gulf an:

The Soviet Union and the USA won WWII. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting and dying, defeating the bulk of the German and some other Axis militaries and in doing so won a thick buffer zone of subservient client states to shield the USSR from the next possible invasion from the West and was also able to exploit economically those satellite states. The USA paid much less in blood and treasure and got "the Grand Area", a short-lived atomic weapons monopoly and economic, military and political influence/hegemony after the war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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The USA also provided weapons, ammunition, ships, food, medical supplies, and so on to the starving Russian troops. In an interview a Russian general made note of the enormous amounts of spam that was airlifted to starving troops and replied, “but did you have to send so much of it?”

The US industrial might and leadership was the deciding factor in beating Germany and Japan, and if we had listened to Mc Arthur China would not be the communist rogue prison state it is today. .
 
JANFU said:
If the USSR fell, tell me what the result would be?
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Germany gets a massive amount of territory and resources to exploit, all those divisions get transferred back west making any difference mission of the continent a million times harder, etc, etc, etc.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Without American lend- lease the USSR never could have stayed afloat in the first place.
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This is a meme of false history and must be rebutted whenever encountered.

The USSR got next to nothing from the USA before Lend Lease began to hit full tride in in 1943.

Nevertheless, the USSR decisively defeated the Germans Dec 5 1941 &ff pretty much along the entire central and southern sectors of the front. There were some points where the Germans were thrown back 200 miles, and their front came perilously close to being ruptured.


Tigerace117 said:
Not to mention, of course, that most of the Russian bleeding was self inflicted; had they not decided to murder their top officers, their casulties would have been far lower.
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The officer corps purges hurt the USSR war effort, but not enough to keep the USSR from killing close to 1000 Germans a day from the first day of the war until the 5/45 German surrender. Also, numerous excellent officers survived the purges, such as Zhukov, Konev and Rokossovsky.
 
Bodhisattva said:
WRONG.

Just... wrong.
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I think these was pretty much a never ending war:

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/IB/...inese_Civil_War_(1927-37_and_1946-49)/Summary

That eventually created Taiwan:

A blurb from elsewhere said:
Taiwan was returned to Nationalist Chinese control in 1945 following Japan’s defeat in World War II. However, in 1949 Chinese communist armies defeated Nationalist forces on the mainland and established the People’s Republic of China there. The Nationalist government and armies fled to Taiwan, again resulting in the separation of Taiwan from China. In the ensuing years the ROC claimed jurisdiction over the Chinese mainland as well as Taiwan, although in the early 1990s Taiwan’s government dropped this claim to China. The Chinese government in Beijing has maintained that it has jurisdiction over Taiwan and has continued to propound a one-China policy—a position that few countries in the world dispute. There has been no agreement, however, on how or when, if ever, the two entities will be reunified
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Fledermaus said:
Your final sentence says so much that many Americans have forgotten or never knew. The "happy days" of the 1950s and 1960s were a result of the US being the one major industrial power to come out of WWII unscathed and with the national reputation relatively intact.
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"Reputation"?

You mean its territory with its human, industrial and agricultural assets.
 
USViking said:
No, American troops did not fight alongside the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War.

You need to get your history from someone other than this Monte Martin clown (whose link you posted is behind a paywall).
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Well, the Monte Martin link became available, and FYI the word "China" does not occur in it.

That is because the article describes US armed forces' peaceful post-war activity in the Phillippines.

Maybe OldFatGuy thinks the Phillippines is part of China, and he just dreamed the part about the US fighting.
 
USViking said:
No, American troops did not fight alongside the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War.

You need to get your history from someone other than this Monte Martin clown (whose link you posted is behind a paywall).
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Oh yes, you are right, we don't call them soldiers at war, just advisors of conflict.
 
USViking said:
Well, the Monte Martin link became available, and FYI the word "China" does not occur in it.

That is because the article describes US armed forces' peaceful post-war activity in the Phillippines.

Maybe OldFatGuy thinks the Phillippines is part of China, and he just dreamed the part about the US fighting.
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It mentions both nations, focused on the Philippines.

That's not the point of my post, the superficial.

We're still fighting, venue after venue for battlefields. The warring never ended. Different participants, perhaps, but that is superficial.

I don't need a parade to display the value of American troops, I'd rather work on keeping them alive. Out of other's battles.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Oh yes, you are right, we don't call them soldiers at war, just advisors of conflict.
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I don't think we even had any advisors in China during the civil war, and if we did Chaing Kai-shek was not good at taking advice: if you had read Barbara Tuchman's Stilwell and the American Experience in China: 1911-1945 you would know what I was talking about.
 
chuckiechan said:
The USA also provided weapons, ammunition, ships, food, medical supplies, and so on to the starving Russian troops. In an interview a Russian general made note of the enormous amounts of spam that was airlifted to starving troops and replied, “but did you have to send so much of it?”

The US industrial might and leadership was the deciding factor in beating Germany and Japan, and if we had listened to Mc Arthur China would not be the communist rogue prison state it is today. .
Click to expand...

I think that was the US effort to engage in chemical and psychological warfare against the USSR; I mean, Spam?.....:2sick1:
 
USViking said:
This is a meme of false history and must be rebutted whenever encountered.

The USSR got next to nothing from the USA before Lend Lease began to hit full tride in in 1943.

Nevertheless, the USSR decisively defeated the Germans Dec 5 1941 &ff pretty much along the entire central and southern sectors of the front. There were some points where the Germans were thrown back 200 miles, and their front came perilously close to being ruptured.



The officer corps purges hurt the USSR war effort, but not enough to keep the USSR from killing close to 1000 Germans a day from the first day of the war until the 5/45 German surrender. Also, numerous excellent officers survived the purges, such as Zhukov, Konev and Rokossovsky.
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If the USSR had “decisively defeated” the Germans in 1941 the Germans would not have continued rolling deep into the USSR. A “decisively defeated” force does not turn around and thrash the Soviets yet again as the Germans did.

Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades, to quote the old cliche. Coming close to defeating an enemy but falling short is not the same thing as defeating an enemy.

Except for the fact that the Germans “bagged” immense numbers of Russians in encirclements in 1941—

“Also called "cauldrons", the great encirclement battles of 1941 cost the Soviet Union dearly. There were approximately 8-11 pockets in 1941, each of which netted more than 100,000 prisoners - most of them would be dead within the next eight months.[1]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_encirclements_of_Soviet_forces_during_Operation_Barbarossa

Despite what later Soviet propaganda might have said, they were horrifically mauled in the opening days of the Eastern front, and didn’t really manage to fully retake the iniative until after Stalingrad. The fact that people like Zhukov maanaged go escape the purges doesn’t change the simple historical fact that no matter how much the Soviets might have hated to admit it, lend lease was vital in keeping them afloat.
 
Bum said:
I think that was the US effort to engage in chemical and psychological warfare against the USSR; I mean, Spam?.....:2sick1:
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Fried in a pan with biscuits, and it's pretty darn good. Also,mlittle known fact...it costs more per pound than spiral cut ham. True story.
 
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