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Comparing the War of 1812 to the Mexican American War

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Yes_Minister

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The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
 
Good God, there's just no comparison. We carved hundreds of miles put of Mexico in our war against them, and our capital was practically razed to the ground in the War of 1812. We clearly did much better against our southern neighbors than our northern ones.

I also just love how our grudge match with Mexico started: illegal American immigration into the region of Texas. Mexico should've built a wall.
 
Why does the OP read like an essay question?
 
If it were not for our wars of expansion, the land mass we call America, would be split up by Russia, France, Spain, and England, and depending on where you lived you'd be pushing a plow for a Russian horse.

Taking the southwest protected us from Spain and France. Taking the east protected us from England and France, and taking the Caribbean protected us from the Spanish and French. The Russians needed money so we bought them out of Alaska and parts of America, and we made a lot of deals with the French - like not contesting eastern Canada.

America needed defendable borders and had a small military to do it with so they chose their battles carefully.
 
Yes_Minister said:
The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
Click to expand...

We were still really young and learning how to make our government work at the time of the War of 1812.
 
chuckiechan said:
If it were not for our wars of expansion, the land mass we call America, would be split up by Russia, France, Spain, and England, and depending on where you lived you'd be pushing a plow for a Russian horse.

Taking the southwest protected us from Spain and France. Taking the east protected us from England and France, and taking the Caribbean protected us from the Spanish and French. The Russians needed money so we bought them out of Alaska and parts of America, and we made a lot of deals with the French - like not contesting eastern Canada.

America needed defendable borders and had a small military to do it with so they chose their battles carefully.
Click to expand...

And, of course, we wisely calculated that there were no humans between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans to hinder our justified quest for defendable borders. A sad vision, the US as the most successful pig at the imperialist trough. Except for the Little Bighorn, we chose our battles carefully. American Exceptionalism.
 
Yes_Minister said:
The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
Click to expand...

Quite simply, in 1812 the British army were top dogs.
 
Nickyjo said:
And, of course, we wisely calculated that there were no humans between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans to hinder our justified quest for defendable borders. A sad vision, the US as the most successful pig at the imperialist trough. Except for the Little Bighorn, we chose our battles carefully. American Exceptionalism.
Click to expand...

Could you just imagine 20 million Americans jumping the border to work in a 3rd world country like Mexico?

Ya know.... the same Mexican government that was run by a few families that used to slaughter their own civilians?
 
Yes_Minister said:
The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
Click to expand...

1812? War!! And I thought it was an overture!!!
 
RetiredUSN said:
Could you just imagine 20 million Americans jumping the border to work in a 3rd world country like Mexico?

-And your point is that like Native Americans, Mexicans aren't human either and were in the way of our glorious quest for lebensraum? Actually, Mexico had weak immigration laws -- too many American immigrants ignoring their rules, bringing slaves. Remember the Alamo.

Ya know.... the same Mexican government that was run by a few families that used to slaughter their own civilians?

-You are confusing Mexico with Central American countries such as El Salvador and Guatemala, whose economic and political systems -- run by a few families -- were installed or kept in place by the United States. Mexican soldiers gleefully slaughtered one another during the 1910 Revolution, not unlike Americans did during our Civil War. Latin American History 101.
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Nickyjo said:
RetiredUSN said:
Could you just imagine 20 million Americans jumping the border to work in a 3rd world country like Mexico?

-And your point is that like Native Americans, Mexicans aren't human either and were in the way of our glorious quest for lebensraum? Actually, Mexico had weak immigration laws -- too many American immigrants ignoring their rules, bringing slaves. Remember the Alamo.

Ya know.... the same Mexican government that was run by a few families that used to slaughter their own civilians?

-You are confusing Mexico with Central American countries such as El Salvador and Guatemala, whose economic and political systems -- run by a few families -- were installed or kept in place by the United States. Mexican soldiers gleefully slaughtered one another during the 1910 Revolution, not unlike Americans did during our Civil War. Latin American History 101.
Click to expand...

You have a twisted view of history.

The Mexican government members were abusing Texan Mexicans for quite a while before the Alamo. They got their ass handed to them, and America ended up with a new state some time later by the vote of the people.
Click to expand...
 
RetiredUSN said:
Nickyjo said:
You have a twisted view of history.

The Mexican government members were abusing Texan Mexicans for quite a while before the Alamo. They got their ass handed to them, and America ended up with a new state some time later by the vote of the people.
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You could get quite an argument from Mexicans on this. Among their beefs was Anglo Texans defiance of laws prohibiting slavery -- Mexico threatened military force over this-- and their refusal to be naturalized as Mexican citizens. Texans had to become Catholics, but it seems that rule was not enforced. But I imagine Texas's distance from Mexico's government, which tried to become more centralized and reneged on some commitments to settlers had a lot to do with the move for independence. The US paid back later on, with things like the "Greaser Act," theft of land, and the signs "No Dogs or Mexicans Allowed," etc.

FYI, Santa Anna, our villain, is also Mexico's, for his inept handling of Texas, and later, the Mexican war after which he conceded so much land to the US. The history is colorful and weird --- Mexico still has a warm spot for "Los Patricios," Irish immigrants who switched sides during the war. Many were hanged by their US commanders.
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Both wars were aggressive to gain more land.

We failed to take Canada but did secure control south of the lakes to the Gulf and destroyed the Indian power in the Old Southwest.

We took almost half of Mexico, secured the New Southwest and the ports on the Pacific Ocean.

The professionalism of our military, particularly in the artillery and engineering and logistic formations, were the great deciders in the Mexican War.
 
Nickyjo said:
And, of course, we wisely calculated that there were no humans between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans to hinder our justified quest for defendable borders. A sad vision, the US as the most successful pig at the imperialist trough. Except for the Little Bighorn, we chose our battles carefully. American Exceptionalism.
Click to expand...

Too bad. What's your beef? Are you an Indian?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Nickyjo said:
You have a twisted view of history.

The Mexican government members were abusing Texan Mexicans for quite a while before the Alamo. They got their ass handed to them, and America ended up with a new state some time later by the vote of the people.
Click to expand...

Ummm.... Members of the US settled in Tejas and were subject to Mexican laws and were bound by agreements they signed in order to get the land.

One stipulation was that they convert to Catholiscism. Another was that thwy abandoned slavery. They were also subject to taxes....

The Amercian settlers did not like those restrictions and rebeled.
Click to expand...
 
chuckiechan said:
Without what we did, we would not exist. You seem to be suggesting we should never have existed.
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So our existence is dependent on genocidal policies? The existence of the US in its current form is not a requirement for humanity.

We felt needed lebensraum, room to expand, and the unworthy Slavs, er, Indians were in the way. Explain the moral difference. Somehow had we kept faith with all the treaties we still would have been a country, more honorable even.
 
Yes_Minister said:
The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
Click to expand...

The Mexican/America War had Texians on the side of the Americans. Those were some angry folks after Goliad and the Alamo. All of the fighting around New Mexico and California was pretty much meaningless in the face of Sam Houston eventual slaughter of the Mexican Army. Houston just kept retreating until he had Santa Anna at a tactical disadvantage and then he gutted them like cattle. What was funny was that Santa Anna liked to compare himself with Napoleon and then he lost pretty much the same way that Napoleon did - getting over-extended in a land war and finally facing a better army than his.

Mexico also had substantial technological short-coming in their weapons. They were fighting with Brown Besses and other weapons from the time vs. what were largely modern Springfield rifles.
 
faithful_servant said:
The Mexican/America War had Texians on the side of the Americans. Those were some angry folks after Goliad and the Alamo. All of the fighting around New Mexico and California was pretty much meaningless in the face of Sam Houston eventual slaughter of the Mexican Army. Houston just kept retreating until he had Santa Anna at a tactical disadvantage and then he gutted them like cattle. What was funny was that Santa Anna liked to compare himself with Napoleon and then he lost pretty much the same way that Napoleon did - getting over-extended in a land war and finally facing a better army than his.

Mexico also had substantial technological short-coming in their weapons. They were fighting with Brown Besses and other weapons from the time vs. what were largely modern Springfield rifles.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that was a key difference, that the Texans wanted to join America during the Mexican American War, while in the War of 1812, the Canadian colonists stayed loyal to the British Crown.

The US might have done better in 1812, if they somehow bribed Quebec to turn against the British, but that might involved too many compromises.
 
Fledermaus said:
RetiredUSN said:
Ummm.... Members of the US settled in Tejas and were subject to Mexican laws and were bound by agreements they signed in order to get the land.

One stipulation was that they convert to Catholiscism. Another was that thwy abandoned slavery. They were also subject to taxes....

The Amercian settlers did not like those restrictions and rebeled.
Click to expand...

There were many Mexican settlers included in those numbers who hated the Mexican govt.
Click to expand...
 
Yes_Minister said:
The US fought two wars against its neighbors, the War of 1812 against British North America and the Mexican American War against Mexico.

How do you think these wars compare to each other? Why do you think the US did better in the Mexican American War then the War of 1812?
Click to expand...

Obviously, the British army was a better and more effective force than the Mexican army.
 
Nickyjo said:
So our existence is dependent on genocidal policies? The existence of the US in its current form is not a requirement for humanity.

We felt needed lebensraum, room to expand, and the unworthy Slavs, er, Indians were in the way. Explain the moral difference. Somehow had we kept faith with all the treaties we still would have been a country, more honorable even.
Click to expand...

Ai yi yi
 
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