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What Should the US Have Done After Nazi Germany Fell?

Jredbaron96 said:
Hitler made it plain in his writings and speeches the desire to conquer Russia and subjugate the Slavic people as a whole. The Ost plan laid out the Nazi intentions to exterminate thr majority of the Soviet population and enslave the rest.

Once that was done, they could then change the entire racial profile of Europe.
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And it would have stopped there presumably. No Great Leap Forward in China. No Pol Pot.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I was reading a pretty good argument the other day that losing the adversary is what doomed the USA and the West, we fell fast into gluttony and decay, sure that were were great, when in truth already by the 80's we sorta sucked.

Then things got really bad, by delusion and I say now also willful ignorance. .

Now we are here.
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I get the impression that Cicero would have agreed with that, given what I'm reading from him recently.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Competing yes, succeeding no.
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I agree that ultimately it was doomed to fail, but at the time the Soviet Union was a superpower. The US wasn't the lone power that it is today.
 
phattonez said:
I get the impression that Cicero would have agreed with that, given what I'm reading from him recently.
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I am the guy who claims that bullying is good for the people bullied and good for the collective as well, that we need to be challenged and made better because humans tend to be lazy and delusional, and I say the same thing about marriage.....that being "BEST FRIENDS!" and nicey nice all the time is a wasted opportunity to help our mates BE BETTER , and us too....so clearly I am listening.
 
phattonez said:
And it would have stopped there presumably. No Great Leap Forward in China. No Pol Pot.
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On the graves of 230 million Slavs and Soviet citizens. Some victory.
 
phattonez said:
I agree that ultimately it was doomed to fail, but at the time the Soviet Union was a superpower. The US wasn't the lone power that it is today.
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You can do that when you have a massive population and a large abundance of resources.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
On the graves of 230 million Slavs and Soviet citizens. Some victory.
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I'm not saying that leaving the Nazis alone was a good option. I'm glad that they were defeated. Ultimately, I just wish that both were defeated. I hate that we have the current situation where Nazis are the ultimate evil, while Communist crimes are routinely ignored or excused.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
You can do that when you have a massive population and a large abundance of resources.
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The 5th largest country by population is Brazil. A large population doesn't guarantee you any kind of success.
 
phattonez said:
The 5th largest country by population is Brazil. A large population doesn't guarantee you any kind of success.
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But mobilized en masse and put to work they can be. The Soviets became a superpower due to the weight of their industry and their arms
 
Jredbaron96 said:
But mobilized en masse and put to work they can be. The Soviets became a superpower due to the weight of their industry and their arms
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Do you really think Brazil just needs a war to mobilize their potential?
 
phattonez said:
I'm not saying that leaving the Nazis alone was a good option. I'm glad that they were defeated. Ultimately, I just wish that both were defeated. I hate that we have the current situation where Nazis are the ultimate evil, while Communist crimes are routinely ignored or excused.
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Commies are annoying, but they were only so popular because of how appealing their message was. Equality for all races and peoples, no more poverty, no more tyrants sure sounds appealing, even if the end result were never that simple.

I don't hold communism worse than fascism because at its root I can't fault it other than for its naivete. Fascism, on the other hand,an ideology rooted in nationalism, militarism, and imperialism, is something I can always stand against.
 
phattonez said:
Do you really think Brazil just needs a war to mobilize their potential?
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No, Brazil is its own story. The USSR was succesful because of its command economy that was ultimately its downfall.
 
phattonez said:
That's not a personal attack, I was just hoping you would provide more substance. Of course another war would have been tough, but it's not as if Soviets owning Eastern Europe for half a century was a neutral option.
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We had our hands full rebuilding Western Europe which was a better option than more war. Even n hindsight it was a smart move to do what we did.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Commies are annoying, but they were only so popular because of how appealing their message was. Equality for all races and peoples, no more poverty, no more tyrants sure sounds appealing, even if the end result were never that simple.

I don't hold communism worse than fascism because at its root I can't fault it other than for its naivete. Fascism, on the other hand,an ideology rooted in nationalism, militarism, and imperialism, is something I can always stand against.
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But the USSR was not really Communist as much as they were militarist, imperialist and nationalist. We are seeing now that what Communism they had held them back. They are even a worse threat to democracy today as an Oligarchy.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Commies are annoying, but they were only so popular because of how appealing their message was. Equality for all races and peoples, no more poverty, no more tyrants sure sounds appealing, even if the end result were never that simple.

I don't hold communism worse than fascism because at its root I can't fault it other than for its naivete. Fascism, on the other hand,an ideology rooted in nationalism, militarism, and imperialism, is something I can always stand against.
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How do you ignore the militarism and expansionary forces present within Communism?
 
phattonez said:
How do you ignore the militarism and expansionary forces present within Communism?
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I don't. I don't like communists or communism at all. I can understand it's appeal and I think it's an interesting ideology to study, but I have no love for it.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Commies are annoying, but they were only so popular because of how appealing their message was. Equality for all races and peoples, no more poverty, no more tyrants sure sounds appealing, even if the end result were never that simple.

I don't hold communism worse than fascism because at its root I can't fault it other than for its naivete. Fascism, on the other hand,an ideology rooted in nationalism, militarism, and imperialism, is something I can always stand against.
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Except Communist is totalitarianism and has killed more than even National Socialism. You can't get communism without totalitarianism.

Totalitarianism, of course, is often equated with fascism.
 
iguanaman said:
But the USSR was not really Communist as much as they were militarist, imperialist and nationalist. We are seeing now that what Communism they had held them back. They are even a worse threat to democracy today as an Oligarchy.
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LOL.

Holy **** my sides.

I actually can't believe that people honestly believe this to be true. No ideology that I can think of off the top of my head has killed more than communism.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I don't. I don't like communists or communism at all. I can understand it's appeal and I think it's an interesting ideology to study, but I have no love for it.
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Then why do you view it as at least slightly better than fascism?
 
Koke said:
Except Communist is totalitarianism and has killed more than even National Socialism. You can't get communism without totalitarianism.

Totalitarianism, of course, is often equated with fascism.
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Only because Nazism failed. Had they succeeded,their death count would've dwarfed the Soviets.
 
phattonez said:
Then why do you view it as at least slightly better than fascism?
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Because it's core fundamentals as defined in the communist manifesto aren't as reprehensible.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Only because Nazism failed. Had they succeeded,their death count would've dwarfed the Soviets.
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I'm not really convinced of that. It's a point that can easily be debated, but it's not really self-evident. Remember that you have to tie in the Great Leap Forward and Pol Pot, since those things were only possible with the Soviet Union not defeated in WWII.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Because it's core fundamentals as defined in the communist manifesto aren't as reprehensible.
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There are no property rights in communism. You own nothing. You don't even get your family. What about fascism is worse than that?
 
phattonez said:
There are no property rights in communism. You own nothing. You don't even get your family. What about fascism is worse than that?
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In a fascist state everything is ultimately subordinate to the state, so I don't see how that's a better alternative.

There's also the part of fascism that holds the conflict between races and nationalities is not only inevitable, but necessary. I don't know about you, but I don't need to fight people just because they're a different race or nationality than me.
 
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