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100 Years Ago The US Declares War on Germany

apdst said:
It's a good thing we got there when we did. We saved the day.
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Not really, the US joining was just the final nail in the coffin and sped up the defeat of Germany. Germany was starving and the final offensive was doomed regardless. The US did not really play a role at bringing down the other Central Powers.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Why? because he told the truth?

both allegations against Wilson are verifiable
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He might also have mentioned that Wilson disdained the very Constitution he swore to uphold. But then Woodrow had a Ph.D., and he knew better than the Framers how Americans should be governed.
 
Carjosse said:
Not really, the US joining was just the final nail in the coffin and sped up the defeat of Germany. Germany was starving and the final offensive was doomed regardless. The US did not really play a role at bringing down the other Central Powers.
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So those 1,800 Marines who were killed in the battle of Belleau Wood died for almost nothing. No sense honoring them, in that case--let's rename the amphibious ship.
 
matchlight said:
So those 1,800 Marines who were killed in the battle of Belleau Wood died for almost nothing. No sense honoring them, in that case--let's rename the amphibious ship.
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When or how did I say that? They deserve to be honored for fighting for freedom they would never personally experience. I for sure have no idea what any of that has to with an amphibious ship. All I said that the US entering the war was not the deciding factor merely a contributing factor.
 
matchlight said:
So those 1,800 Marines who were killed in the battle of Belleau Wood died for almost nothing. No sense honoring them, in that case--let's rename the amphibious ship.
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Sacrifice in battle should always be honored if they fought for a good cause.

That doesn't change that the German Empire is doomed.

And if you're going to commemorate lost American lives, how about the 26,000 Americans killed at Meuse-Argonne Forest, the deadliest battle in American history?
 
Carjosse said:
Not really, the US joining was just the final nail in the coffin and sped up the defeat of Germany. Germany was starving and the final offensive was doomed regardless. The US did not really play a role at bringing down the other Central Powers.
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The AEF broke the stailmate.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
lolno.

The Spring Offensives were doomed the moment Ludendorff lost sight of his operational objectives and doomed the entire offensive to failure. The end result is Germany collapses into revolution, but still loses.
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U.S. forces broke the German lines and allowed Allied forces to maneuver. We created the turning point in the war.
 
apdst said:
The AEF broke the stailmate.
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Technically the Germans did with their Spring offensive but the start of the 100 Days Offensive was launched by Commonwealth forces at Amiens.
 
Carjosse said:
When or how did I say that? They deserve to be honored for fighting for freedom they would never personally experience. I for sure have no idea what any of that has to with an amphibious ship. All I said that the US entering the war was not the deciding factor merely a contributing factor.
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You played down the role of the U.S. in winning World War One. The victory in the Battle of Belleau Wood, in which 1,811 U.S. Marines were killed, is only one example of how this country contributed to winning a war that Europeans had started. The victory there was important enough that one of the large amphibious ships the Marines used until about ten years ago was named after the battle. I hope that one day the name will be used for a new ship for the Marines.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Sacrifice in battle should always be honored if they fought for a good cause.

That doesn't change that the German Empire is doomed.

And if you're going to commemorate lost American lives, how about the 26,000 Americans killed at Meuse-Argonne Forest, the deadliest battle in American history?
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That is another example of the sacrifices U.S. forces made in that war.
 
Fishking said:
And Britain still didn't really want to get into it until Germany used Belgium in an attempt to circumvent French fortifications. Britain had a hard alliance with Belgium to protect their sovereignty, which was a good enough of an excuse for the pro-war faction to win out.
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The pro-war faction in the UK was going to get their war regardless of what Germany would have done. With both their prime minister and Winston Churchill threatening to resign and topple the government if they didnt declare war. In the end, they blew each other's brains out.

Woodrow Wilson was a lying scumbag by first proclaiming isolationism and then breaking that promise.
 
matchlight said:
You played down the role of the U.S. in winning World War One. The victory in the Battle of Belleau Wood, in which 1,811 U.S. Marines were killed, is only one example of how this country contributed to winning a war that Europeans had started. The victory there was important enough that one of the large amphibious ships the Marines used until about ten years ago was named after the battle. I hope that one day the name will be used for a new ship for the Marines.
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I never said they did not contribute, all I said was they were not the deciding factor in the war, they were just a contributing factor but you do not seem to understand that.
 
Carjosse said:
I never said they did not contribute, all I said was they were not the deciding factor in the war, they were just a contributing factor but you do not seem to understand that.
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Yep....the U.S. didn't join until later.
 
Carjosse said:
When or how did I say that? They deserve to be honored for fighting for freedom they would never personally experience. I for sure have no idea what any of that has to with an amphibious ship. All I said that the US entering the war was not the deciding factor merely a contributing factor.
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You have to understand, whatever the truth it's necessary that America did the Mighty Mouse and saved the day. You could look it up in any American school textbook.
 
Grand Mal said:
You have to understand, whatever the truth it's necessary that America did the Mighty Mouse and saved the day. You could look it up in any American school textbook.
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Considering that it was pretty much even odds whether France or Germany would bow out first, and England wasn't much better off.....yeah, I'd say the flood of American troops "saved the day."
 
apdst said:
U.S. forces broke the German lines and allowed Allied forces to maneuver. We created the turning point in the war.
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Irrelevant. Even without American forces or battlefield success on the Entente side, Germany was doomed.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Irrelevant. Even without American forces or battlefield success on the Entente side, Germany was doomed.
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England and France were out of men; they had no reserves left. The best the Allies could have accomplished would be a treaty, with the lines as they were. Even with the U.S. breaking the stailmate, the Germans agreed to an armistice and not a surrender.
 
Carjosse said:
Technically the Germans did with their Spring offensive but the start of the 100 Days Offensive was launched by Commonwealth forces at Amiens.
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After the U.S. broke the stalemate.

Allied forces, not Commonwealth forces.
 
apdst said:
England and France were out of men; they had no reserves left. The best the Allies could have accomplished would be a treaty, with the lines as they were. Even with the U.S. breaking the stailmate, the Germans agreed to an armistice and not a surrender.
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Nonsense. The Spring Offensives may have succeeded in gaining significant portions of territory, but it was ultimately pointless as it put the Germans in a piss poor position.

German reserves were just as exhausted; they would've been unable to divert necessary manpower to West because it was necessary to shore up the collapsing Austro-Hungarian Empire. The German Army would've been rendered irrelevant due to the collapse of the German Government and Economy, an unavoidable inevitability had the war continued into 1919.
 
apdst said:
After the U.S. broke the stalemate.

Allied forces, not Commonwealth forces.
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In what way? The Germans broke it and started pushing back Allied lines but when that ran out gas the Allies launched the 100 Days Offensive which started with the Battle of Amiens with British, Australian, and Canadian forces.
 
Rexedgar said:
I recommend the PBS just run, three part series on the US involvement in 'The Great War'. The world didn't have much of a takeaway from the whole ordeal. The peace treaty, really only an armistice, lasted less than twenty years. WWII officially began SEP 1939. But the run up began years before. (Trying to cover the mathematicians arguement, you see.)
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The BBC has a couple of great series on WW1, it gives a much better view of the war, and how it broke down class and social norms upon its conclusion. I found the PBS series great, but limited as it focused mostly on Americas involvement. In the scheme of things, Americas contribution was no were near what we in this country would like to believe.
 
Grand Mal said:
You have to understand, whatever the truth it's necessary that America did the Mighty Mouse and saved the day. You could look it up in any American school textbook.
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I understand that many people in irrelevant backwaters are envious that the United States DID save the day, when no other nation could.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Nonsense. The Spring Offensives may have succeeded in gaining significant portions of territory, but it was ultimately pointless as it put the Germans in a piss poor position.

German reserves were just as exhausted; they would've been unable to divert necessary manpower to West because it was necessary to shore up the collapsing Austro-Hungarian Empire. The German Army would've been rendered irrelevant due to the collapse of the German Government and Economy, an unavoidable inevitability had the war continued into 1919.
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I have a feeling that if the US didnt join in the war the Germans would have been able to negotiate better terms, perhaps the Kaiser might have even stayed in power.
 
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