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History is nothing more than the struggle between freedom and govt?

James972 said:
insane of course. your assumption is that those in human history empowered to prohibit things ( Hitler Stalin Mao for example) will know better than those not empowered to prohibit things. America is greatest in human history because Founders thought people knew better. Do you understand?
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Don’t really understand, the Founders seemed to be ok with slavery. And the notion that “America is greatest in human history” is a suspect one. Germany apparently thought that in the 1930s-40s. Didn’t turn out well. Ask the Sioux what they think. (Imagine what a good time Jesus or Ghandi or even Jefferson would have with your statement. There lies fascism.) As I recall, God designated one chosen people, and it is wasn’t us Yanks. And as the guy said in “Fiddler on the Roof,” “I wish you would choose someone else once in a while.”
 
James972 said:
1) there was strong abolition movement everywhere on earth
2) how could it have been well when it existed for 1000's of years and ended at about the same time in Europe and US.
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1787 - The Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade founded in Britain

1792 - Denmark bans import of slaves to its West Indies colonies

1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.
- United States passes legislation banning the slave trade

1811 - Spain abolishes slavery, including in its colonies

1833 - Britain passes Abolition of Slavery Act, ordering gradual abolition of slavery in all British colonies.

1848 - France abolishes slavery

1858 - Portugal abolishes slavery in its colonies

1863 - United States abolishes slavery, though the Emancipation Proclamation was not in effect in the Confederate States until the surrender at Appomattox.

THE primary difference between ancient slavery and that practiced in the period from the 17th to the 19th Centuries was the fact that ancient slavery was not based on the race of the slaves.
 
Nickyjo said:
Don’t really understand, the Founders seemed to be ok with slavery. ”
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mostly ok with ending it and freeing billions of slaves all around the world, most recently 1.4 billion in China from libcommieism. Do you understand?
 
Nickyjo said:
And the notion that “America is greatest in human history” is a suspect one. Germany apparently thought that in the 1930s-40s. Didn’t turn out well.
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actually many many thought they were greatest and how it turned out tells you they were mistaken. Do you understand?
 
Nickyjo said:
Ask the Sioux what they think.
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why?? do they get to decide whether freeing 1.4 billion in China makes us greatest in human history or winning 2 world wars and recreating world in our image and then policing it makes us greatest? Do you understand?
 
Nickyjo said:
(Imagine what a good time Jesus or Ghandi or even Jefferson would have with your statement.”
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you think they would agree or disagree? Why?
 
Nickyjo said:
There lies fascism.)
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if you have any idea what point you are making above why not tell us. Fascism was primarily Italy Germany WW2 era. Hard to beleive you didn't know that
 
Nickyjo said:
As I recall, God designated one chosen people, and it is wasn’t us Yanks. And as the guy said in “Fiddler on the Roof,” “I wish you would choose someone else once in a while.”
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no idea what your point is. Care to try to explain?
 
James972 said:
So what do historians think the central issue a human history is? I wonder why you forgot to tell us?
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The "central issue of human history" doesn't have a thing to do with what I said.
 
James972 said:
American intellectuals argue that history is a straight line from Aristotle to Jefferson. Aristotle invented the idea of freedom from liberal govt and finally it grew big enough that a county (the USA) could be founded (with Jefferson's help) on the idea. When we study history and think about history this is what should concern us, primarily. Can anyone disagree?
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Government is not a four letter word. It's 10. Hence, the concept of governing is much more complex that your simplistic trope.
 
calamity said:
Government is not a four letter word. It's 10. Hence, the concept of governing is much more complex that your simplistic trope.
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American Constitution is based on idea that govt is source of evil on earth. Were our genius founders wrong?
 
James972 said:
American Constitution is based on idea that govt is source of evil on earth. Were our genius founders wrong?
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Considering they missed the boat on slavery....yes. And, they certainly were not geniuses, unless you happened to be white and male, that is.
 
calamity said:
Considering they missed the boat on slavery....yes.
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they didn't miss the boat at all. they spread the idea of freedom all over the globe and instantly freed blacks and most recently 1.4 billion Chinese
 
calamity said:
And, they certainly were not geniuses, unless you happened to be white and male, that is.
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dear, Democrats in the 1950's were still racist, Jesus was racist, Greeks were racists but we still call them geniuses obviously meaning, for their times, who created the foundation for our times which is time will make us look racist or stupid too. Still over your head?

you're very bigoted pretending that if you had been born owning slaves you would have seen the light faster than Jesus or our Founders did.
 
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