The Sykes-Picot Agreement is Now a Century Old

Jack Hays said:

The Myth of an American Coup - Council on Foreign Relations This year marks the sixtieth anniversary of Operation Ajax—the notorious CIA plot that is supposed to have ousted Iranian prime minister Muhammad Mossadeq. In the intervening decades, the events of 1953 have been routinely depicted as a nefarious U.S. conspiracy that overthrew a nationalist politician who enjoyed enormous popular support. This narrative, assiduously cultivated by the Islamic Republic, was so readily endorsed by the American intellectual class that presidents and secretaries of state are now expected to commence any discussion of Iran by apologizing for the behavior of their malevolent predecessors. At this stage, the account has even seeped into American popular culture, featuring most recently in Ben Affleck's Oscar-winning blockbuster Argo. The only problem with this mythologized history is that the CIA's role in Mossadeq's demise was largely inconsequential. In the end, the 1953 coup was very much an Iranian affair. . . .

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LOL a reprinted article from the weekly standard? A neocon site. The fact is that we did have a very big hand in the coup and it would not have happened without our money and support. Madeline Albright and many government officials even admitted to it.

United States Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, who visited Iran both before and after the coup, wrote that "When Mossadegh and Persia started basic reforms, we became alarmed. We united with the British to destroy him; we succeeded; and ever since, our name has not been an honored one in the Middle East."[

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#United_States_role

apdst said:

When did I say the CIA wasn't involved? I didn't? Oh, right...

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Short memory.

apdst said:

Mosaddegh wasn't democratically elected. He was appointed by the Iranian parliament. After his appointment he dissolved the parliament. The CIA didn't overthrow him, the Iranians did and the democratically elected parliament has already been dissolved at that point. Actually, Mosaddegh ther dictator was overthrown.

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JANFU said:

Short memory.

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And that's very true. The CIA only supported the coup. Do you know the difference?

PoS said:

LOL a reprinted article from the weekly standard? A neocon site. The fact is that we did have a very big hand in the coup and it would not have happened without our money and support. Madeline Albright and many government officials even admitted to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#United_States_role

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We had a hand in it, but saying, "the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran", is historically inaccurate in several ways.

The problem is that the America haters think that Operation Ajax is the alpha of the problem, but NEVER mention the Brit-Soviet invasion of Iran in 1941. Those people probably never even heard of it.

apdst said:

We had a hand in it, but saying, "the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran", is historically inaccurate in several ways.

The problem is that the America haters think that Operation Ajax is the alpha of the problem, but NEVER mention the Brit-Soviet invasion of Iran in 1941. Those people probably never even heard of it.

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There's no doubt that the Brits did huge damage to Iran in WW2 and supported Ajax, but thats beside the point, the CIA did help to overthrow the government of Mossadegh, in fact the coup couldn't have been carried out without US and British involvement.

PoS said:

There's no doubt that the Brits did huge damage to Iran in WW2 and supported Ajax, but thats beside the point, the CIA did help to overthrow the government of Mossadegh, in fact the coup couldn't have been carried out without US and British involvement.

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It isn't beside the point, really.

apdst said:

And that's very true. The CIA only supported the coup. Do you know the difference?

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Yes - They were involved. The Shah fled to Baghdad when he thought the coup went off the rails. Luckily or unluckily the CIA man on the ground, ordered out of the country, did not, and found a General loyal to the Shah who when things started to turn in their favor, took to the radio. That sealed the deal.

PoS said:

LOL a reprinted article from the weekly standard? A neocon site. The fact is that we did have a very big hand in the coup and it would not have happened without our money and support. Madeline Albright and many government officials even admitted to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#United_States_role

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Also published in Foreign Affairs, our country's leading foreign affairs/foreign policy journal. As for Douglas, he was both a hack and a rube unlikely to understand anything about Iran. From a link in your link:

Douglas was often at odds with fellow Justice Felix Frankfurter, who believed in judicial restraint and thought the court should stay out of politics.[SUP][15][/SUP] Douglas did not highly value judicial consistency or stare decisis when deciding cases.[SUP][15][/SUP]
Judge Richard A. Posner, who was a law clerk at the Court during the latter part of Douglas's tenure, characterized him as "a bored, distracted, uncollegial, irresponsible" Supreme Court justice, as well as "rude, ice-cold, hot-tempered, ungrateful, foul-mouthed, self-absorbed" and so abusive in "treatment of his staff to the point where his law clerks—whom he described as 'the lowest form of human life'—took to calling him "****head" behind his back." Posner asserts also that "Douglas's judicial oeuvre is slipshod and slapdash." Yet, says Posner, Douglas's "intelligence, his energy, his academic and government experience, his flair for writing, the leadership skills that he had displayed at the SEC, and his ability to charm when he bothered to try" could have let him "become the greatest justice in history."[SUP][6][/SUP]


What Really Happened in Iran | Foreign Affairs

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/.../what-really-happened-iran


Foreign Affairs


by R Takeyh - ‎Cited by 6 - ‎Related articles
Jun 16, 2014 - What Really Happened in Iran. The CIA, the Ouster of Mosaddeq, and the Restoration of the Shah. By Ray Takeyh ...

JANFU said:

Yes - They were involved. The Shah fled to Baghdad when he thought the coup went off the rails. Luckily or unluckily the CIA man on the ground, ordered out of the country, did not, and found a General loyal to the Shah who when things started to turn in their favor, took to the radio. That sealed the deal.

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You forgot to mention England's role in the coup. Or, was that a willful omission?

PoS said:

There's no doubt that the Brits did huge damage to Iran in WW2 and supported Ajax, but thats beside the point, the CIA did help to overthrow the government of Mossadegh, in fact the coup couldn't have been carried out without US and British involvement.

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No doubt, especially since the Shah was opposed to a coup for quite sometime.

My point, however, is that when people start complaining about what went wrong in The Middle East, they not only start with Operation Ajax, but leave out important fact, along adding a touch of fiction. And, they never mention England's role in the coup.

apdst said:

You forgot to mention England's role in the coup. Or, was that a willful omission?

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Was the CIA heavily involved?

JANFU said:

Was the CIA heavily involved?

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Was England? Did AOIC put up twenty-five-grand?

Why are you trying to create a smoke screen for the Brits's involvement?

apdst said:

Mosaddegh wasn't democratically elected. He was appointed by the Iranian parliament..

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So by that definition the primeminsters of the Uk, Ireland, Israel, , Italy or any other parliamentary system on earth were not democratically elected either?

Red_Dave said:

So by that definition the primeminsters of the Uk, Ireland, Israel, , Italy or any other parliamentary system on earth were not democratically elected either?

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If the people didn't vote them, then I don't believe they were.

Have any of this PJ's dissolved their country's legislative body and installed themselves as dictator? That's what Mossadegh did.

Jack Hays said:

The Myth of an American Coup - Council on Foreign Relations


This year marks the sixtieth anniversary of Operation Ajax—the notorious CIA plot that is supposed to have ousted Iranian prime minister Muhammad Mossadeq. In the intervening decades, the events of 1953 have been routinely depicted as a nefarious U.S. conspiracy that overthrew a nationalist politician who enjoyed enormous popular support. This narrative, assiduously cultivated by the Islamic Republic, was so readily endorsed by the American intellectual class that presidents and secretaries of state are now expected to commence any discussion of Iran by apologizing for the behavior of their malevolent predecessors. At this stage, the account has even seeped into American popular culture, featuring most recently in Ben Affleck's Oscar-winning blockbuster Argo. The only problem with this mythologized history is that the CIA's role in Mossadeq's demise was largely inconsequential. In the end, the 1953 coup was very much an Iranian affair. . . .

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This ... and the fact that Mossadegh lost the support of the clerics when he went over to the Soviet sponsored Tudeh Party and began suspending elections, trying to take over the military and nationalize everything and turn Iran into another Soviet puppet state. No government in Iran could stand when it lost the support of the clerics.

The Iranians should be falling on the ground thanking the U.S. for saving them.