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The Soviet-German War 1941-1945: Myths and Realities: A Survey Essay

Fledermaus said:
There is speculation based on facts.

Then there is yours.
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Is it not a fact that Hitler attacked Russia and opened up an eastern front while already having one open in the west? My speculation is based on this fact.
 
Fledermaus said:
Those are facts.

The speculation is the "Plea" nonsense.
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There is a reason I will first try to debunk "conspiracy theorists" of any sort, showing them reason and facts to try and get them to at least open their eyes. And when they show their eyes are permanently closed and they will consider nothing other then their biased, unfounded, undocumented, and unresourced flights of fantasy, I generally ignore them.

I might take them a bit more seriously, if they at least had some kind of facts and references other then "I say this is so" (or sometimes "this person says it is so"). And were able to debate it on some kind of a logical level, not simply going "you are an idiot and I am right". Trying to debate individuals like that more often then not is simply trying to watch an old Monty Python skit. I actually enjoy debate, and when things are civil and both sides present well presented points of view based on more then simply personal belief, I like to think both sides learn something.

But mindless "no, I am right you are wrong" is simply boring, like trying to tell a 2 year old why they can not have cookies until after dinner.

It is also sad that so many come in with what is basically a Junior High level understanding of things like WWII, and think that what they were taught at the age of 14 is the "ultimate truth" of the conflict. This is why most of the time when over-simplifications come up, I encourage people to do their own research (often times pointing them towards some good resources), in the hopes that they will become more informed about the topic at hand.
 
DDD said:
Arrogance + Allied Pressure = Hitler invades Russia (perhaps as a sacrifice) as a plea to Europe & USA to leave him alone.
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The USA was not yet in the war when Hitler launched his invasion of the Soviet Union, and he faced no opposition in Europe except Britain, alone on an island. Learn first, then post.
 
The book "The Age of Social Catastrophe" covers the horrific campaigns of both Germany and the USSR in great detail.




faithful_servant said:
The Germans were attacking our allies and we responded as an ally should have done. But none of that has anything to do with the Eastern Front....
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Shamefully, we did not do anything more than send supplies until Japan attacked us.
 
Mr Person said:
The book "The Age of Social Catastrophe" covers the horrific campaigns of both Germany and the USSR in great detail.







Shamefully, we did not do anything more than send supplies until Japan attacked us.
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We did quite a bit more than send supplies. Is it your contention that the US should have proactively entered the war before Pearl Harbor?
 
Jack Hays said:
We did quite a bit more than send supplies. Is it your contention that the US should have proactively entered the war before Pearl Harbor?
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Given Germany's actions in WWI, the Versailles treaty, and blatant no-holds-barred aggression, yes.

I don't want to see us play World Police, but there are some threats to civilization so great that they must be countered, even at horrific expense. Hitler was such a threat.
 
Mr Person said:
Given Germany's actions in WWI, the Versailles treaty, and blatant no-holds-barred aggression, yes.

I don't want to see us play World Police, but there are some threats to civilization so great that they must be countered, even at horrific expense. Hitler was such a threat.
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It was politically impossible until Pearl Harbor.
 
Jack Hays said:
It was politically impossible until Pearl Harbor.
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The fact is, the United States did not actually declare war against Germany, Germany declared war against the United States. Basically the US simply responded in aknowledging that a state of war existed between the two.

And the US and Japan actually came very close to war back in 1937. Although largely forgotten today, the Rape of Nanking and the sinking of the USS Panay brought the two countries very close to war.
 
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