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United States National Health Insurance Act-H.R 676

So if they make the playing field impossible due to unfair regulation, then its the ins co's fault?

Well, they just shouldn't exist anyway. I'm moderate in the sense that I think the profit motive can be conducive to improving society, e.g. by motivating people to innovate. But when profit works against the interests of society, then that becomes a candidate for a profit-neutral model, i.e. government.

Insurance companies profit by turning those who need healthcare away and denying expensive care when possible. In contrast, the pharmaceutical industry, if regulated properly, can be productive and innovative due to the profit motive.

Who controls the money controls the industry.

The healthcare industry does need a lot of controlling.
 
For those for or against government sponsored/single-payer health care (or whatever name the current health care reform proposal is going under), I would urge you to read the following opinion pieces from the New York Times, linked below:

a. The first article, "The Prescription From Obama’s Own Doctor", by NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF, Published: June 24, 2009, is more about what medical associations the Obama administration should seek out to garner support for health care reform, and the American Medical Association, according to the article's auther, ain't it! I found it an interesting read mainly because what I've mostly been hearing about the recent attempts at health care reform has been more on the lines of who won't support it and why government sponsored health care is so wrong as opposed to why it could be a very good thing for physicians and patients alike. While the article doesn't provide alot of insight into why government sponsored health care would be a benefit to all across the board, it does bring the focus of health care reform back to where it should be - on patient care and medical accessibility and not the pocket book.

b. The second article, "The Only Public Health Plan We Need," By DAVID RIEMER and ALAIN ENTHOVEN, Published: June 24, 2009, provides some very good ideas on what should be included in any government sponsored health care reform bill. The recommendations suggested remind me of how the military provides access to civilian medical services, i.e., choosing from a pool of HMOs, as well as, how such programs like SCHIP currently operate, i.e., sliding fee or fee-for-services. In either case, it's about choice, and that includes the proposed the health care proposal per the United States National Health Insurance Act, H.R. 676, which does provide for an enrollment option and not an automatic across the board blanket enrollment as has been wrongfully espoused by the Right.

Bottom line is this: Medicare and Medicaid, both of which are government entitlement programs, are eating up billions from the national budget, annually. And this despite the fact that Medicaid is partically funded by most states. Neither have proven to be a true "win-win" for the patient and the physician, but it is the only resource many people have - both young and old, healthy and ailing - to obtain the medical coverage, medical attention and medications they need to live healthier lives. Clearly, something needs to be done in order to bring health care cost down. The question, of course, is what is the best way to go about it?

My advise is very simple:

1. Listen to what both sides are saying on the issue.

2. Determine what you believe would be the better recommendations, in whole or in part.

3. Write your Congressman and submit your views on the matter.

Hopefully, in this way we can all see a better health care reform bill that will be fair and suit the majority of people who want it. And those who don't shouldn't be affected by it one way or another, i.e., "establish a 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners; a 10% tax on top 1% of wage earners". This would be my only concern with the USNHIA (HR 676) as proposed only because wealthy Americans would see this as a penalty against their earnings where as the truth of the matter is they'd only be paying their fair share toward coverage considering that the working class would pay their share via payroll tax. Granted, they'd pay from .25% to upwards of 100% more than the avg. working American (10% versus 4.75%), but somehow I doubt most wealth Americans would even blink an eye at this figure as it's liable to be less than what they pay now. (That's purely speculation on my part...)

Regardless of the arguments on both sides, something has to be done about the rising cost of health care in this country.

The only way this bill can be improved is if the topic is dropped entirely and forever.

No nationalized healthcare, non, at all, ever.

It's not this bill or do nothing. If you want a policy, go buy one. That simple.
 
The only way this bill can be improved is if the topic is dropped entirely and forever.

No nationalized healthcare, non, at all, ever.

It's not this bill or do nothing. If you want a policy, go buy one. That simple.

Not quite as simple as you present it.Studies by the Census Bureau, New England Journal of Medicine, University of Michigan and Notre Dame all show that poor people are more likely to be sick..... Because these people are poor.So, if they are poor they cant afford to, as you put it "If you want a policy, go buy one".

It gets to be a chicken and egg cycle, they let treatment slide because of cost,there health goes into the crapper because of they let treatment slide.

As for as private insurance not being able to compete with a government backed entity,they are doing it now not only competing against Medicare with Medicare Advantage plans but both UPS, and Fed ex ,are doing rather well against the USPS.
 
Not quite as simple as you present it.Studies by the Census Bureau, New England Journal of Medicine, University of Michigan and Notre Dame all show that poor people are more likely to be sick..... Because these people are poor.So, if they are poor they cant afford to, as you put it "If you want a policy, go buy one".

It gets to be a chicken and egg cycle, they let treatment slide because of cost,there health goes into the crapper because of they let treatment slide.

As for as private insurance not being able to compete with a government backed entity,they are doing it now not only competing against Medicare with Medicare Advantage plans but both UPS, and Fed ex ,are doing rather well against the USPS.

The poor already qualify for Title19 (and foodstamps, and housing assistance, and workforce solutions, and FASFA...), so here again, we don't need this bill.

Obama wants to tun the existing safety-net into a hammock, and I'm not down with that.

Catastrophic coverage (the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) is very affordable even with the out-of-control medical prices.

If anything, Obama needs to institute price controls.

If Obama is not going to institute price controls and only price controls, then he needs to drop this issue. Just forget about it and move on to privatizing the education system.
 
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The poor already qualify for Title19 (and foodstamps, and housing assistance, and workforce solutions, and FASFA...), so here again, we don't need this bill.

Sure hate to build another strawman/women …but what about getting this sick straw person up and about, then when the bush recession ends they just might get a job and contribute some tax money instead of receiving it.

Obama wants to tun the existing safety-net into a hammock, and I'm not down with that.

I haven’t seen any of that, it seems that is the latest memo going around propaganda radio though.


Catastrophic coverage ((the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) what deductible would you put on the poor? :shock:

Catastrophic coverage (the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) is very affordable even with the out-of-control medical prices.


Catastrophic coverage ((the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) what deductible would you put on the poor?


If anything, Obama needs to institute price controls.

Gasp…:shock:.go wash your mouth out Jerry.

If Obama is not going to institute price controls and only price controls, then he needs to drop this issue. Just forget about it and move on to privatizing the education system.


Kinda hard to drop a snow ball when its rolling down the side of a mountain.
 
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I haven’t seen any of that, it seems that is the latest memo going around propaganda radio though.

Memo?

My kids are on Title19, that's how I know the system. You only get your info from a "propaganda radio" you say?

Catastrophic coverage ((the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) what deductible would you put on the poor? :shock:

"The poor" don't have perfectly uniform profiles to issue a single deductible, but a few thousand is perfectly reasonable. They should also be paying co-pays, even if only token co-pays.

Kinda hard to drop a snow ball when its rolling down the side of a mountain.

Not while it's still a snow ball, it isn't.
 
Memo?


"The poor" don't have perfectly uniform profiles to issue a single deductible, but a few thousand is perfectly reasonable.

first you say ("The poor" don't have perfectly uniform profiles to issue a single deductible,)followed up in the same sentence with this little Jewell( few thousand is perfectly reasonable) :roll:



They should also be paying co-pays, even if only token co-pays.

What % of a non existent income would be charged as a copay in Jerryland?:confused:


Not while it's still a snow ball, it isn't.

Its beyond snowball stage now with over 70% of the populating wanting it.
 
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first you say ("The poor" don't have perfectly uniform profiles to issue a single deductible,)followed up in the same sentence with this little Jewell( few thousand is perfectly reasonable) :roll:

You wanted the exact deductible.

I gave you a range.

I'm sorry if you don't see the difference.

What % of a non existent income would be charged as a copay in Jerryland? :confused:

Here in JerryLand, when we see a "non-existent income", we don't try to solve said unemployment by paying the bills for them; we solve said unemployment by finding that person a job.

I have yet to see a doctor's office which bases co-pays off of a % of income.

I mean we're talking about $5-$10. The poor spend way more than that on cigarettes, especially after Obama's tobacco tax hike.

Its beyond snowball stage now with over 70% of the populating wanting it.

The population wants something don, yes, but Obama's plan specifically? No.

Hell I'm part of the 70% and I oppose Obama's plane. Price controls are where it's at.
 
Not quite as simple as you present it.Studies by the Census Bureau, New England Journal of Medicine, University of Michigan and Notre Dame all show that poor people are more likely to be sick..... Because these people are poor.So, if they are poor they cant afford to, as you put it "If you want a policy, go buy one".

It gets to be a chicken and egg cycle, they let treatment slide because of cost,there health goes into the crapper because of they let treatment slide.

Good points. I would add that when these poor, uninsured do not get preventive treatment, the care they later require costs society a lot more than if they had received preventive care. So insuring them for preventive care is as much a matter of pragmatism as morality.

As for as private insurance not being able to compete with a government backed entity,they are doing it now not only competing against Medicare with Medicare Advantage plans but both UPS, and Fed ex ,are doing rather well against the USPS.

LOL Medicare Advantage, the private component of medicare, is a total failure and even makes public medicare look good. But your overall point is correct. If private insurance is so great then people won't go to the public option.

The poor already qualify for Title19 (and foodstamps, and housing assistance, and workforce solutions, and FASFA...), so here again, we don't need this bill.

In terms of medical care, they have medicaid, but the reimbursements for medicaid are so poor, that many doctors will not accept it. What's worse, some State's fail to uphold their end of the medicaid bargain. Medicaid is so underfunded in my state, that the poor have to literally win a lottery to get what is left of the benefits.

Obama wants to tun the existing safety-net into a hammock, and I'm not down with that.

I'm not convinced Obama will do this right, and what I've seen so far is not promising. However, it is possible to have single-payer without giving people incentives to ignore their health. All it would require is having both incentives (e.g. gym membership subsidized IF they actually use it, but they have to pay for it if they don't use it) and disincentives (higher copays, albeit income-adjusted, for intervention). I know the idea of gym membership subsidization may make conservatives foam at the mouth, but it's cheaper than waiting til the person collapses in the ER with an MI.

Catastrophic coverage (the only kind of coverage anyone needs anyway) is very affordable even with the out-of-control medical prices.

The fact that a primary care visit will often cost a hundred dollars provides a heavy disincentive for poor people to go regularly. The problem with not going regularly is that many costly, chronic conditions start out asymptomatic, but are very treatable/manageable if caught early. If everybody had primary care covered, they may actually utilize it and the need for ten to hundred-thousand dollar catastrophic care would be lessened.
 
I'm not convinced Obama will do this right, and what I've seen so far is not promising. However, it is possible to have single-payer without giving people incentives to ignore their health. All it would require is having both incentives (e.g. gym membership subsidized IF they actually use it, but they have to pay for it if they don't use it) and disincentives (higher copays, albeit income-adjusted, for intervention). I know the idea of gym membership subsidization may make conservatives foam at the mouth, but it's cheaper than waiting til the person collapses in the ER with an MI.

Obama should at least use the car insurance model for determining premiums, co-pays, etc.

The fact that a primary care visit will often cost a hundred dollars provides a heavy disincentive for poor people to go regularly. The problem with not going regularly is that many costly, chronic conditions start out asymptomatic, but are very treatable/manageable if caught early. If everybody had primary care covered, they may actually utilize it and the need for ten to hundred-thousand dollar catastrophic care would be lessened.

So you and I are starting off on incompatible views on medical coverage per-se to begin with, even long before we introduce poverty or a nationalized plan.

Imo, the only insurance coverage anyone, rich, poor...anyone, needs to buy is catastrophic coverage. Everything else the patient pays for themselves.

Since this is my opinion on what anyone should already be doing, this of source is also my opinion on what the state should cover.

Catastrophic only. Not preventative care, not regular prescriptions, not abortions, not OB, not broken finger, non of that. You should be paying for all of that yourself, and if you can't, that's a separate issue entirely. We can discuss job training and employment on another thread.
 
Obama should at least use the car insurance model for determining premiums, co-pays, etc.



So you and I are starting off on incompatible views on medical coverage per-se to begin with, even long before we introduce poverty or a nationalized plan.

Imo, the only insurance coverage anyone, rich, poor...anyone, needs to buy is catastrophic coverage. Everything else the patient pays for themselves.

Since this is my opinion on what anyone should already be doing, this of source is also my opinion on what the state should cover.

Catastrophic only. Not preventative care, not regular prescriptions, not abortions, not OB, not broken finger, non of that. You should be paying for all of that yourself, and if you can't, that's a separate issue entirely. We can discuss job training and employment on another thread.

I'm wonder if your a priori assumption stems from an idea that people need to take personal responsibility where they can? And catastrophic care is outside of that because nobody can pay for it out of pocket?

I'm more interested in what will make society function better. Unless preventive care is actively encouraged, we cannot bring healthcare costs under control.
 
I see the liberals and moderates are at full bore to impliment this monstrosity upon the American people, because they know better. But this isn't knew, it's been a liberal Democrat objective for at least 30 years.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9y5-Vo61w&feature=related]YouTube - Ronald Reagan:There You Go Again[/ame]
 
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