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The real market price for healthcare is astonishingly low.

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
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The answer to the problem of the healthcare mess in the US is low prices, and low prices for healthcare already exist:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

in case you get paywalled, try this link:

The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

The World's Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
Cancer surgery for $700, a heart bypass for $2,000.


A pulmonary thromboendarterectomy, the surgery Shetty performed, can tie up an operating room for most of a day. In the U.S., the procedure can cost more than $200,000. Shetty did it for about $10,000 and turned a profit. A cardiac surgeon by training, Shetty is the founder and chairman of Narayana Health, a chain of 23 hospitals across India that may be the cheapest full-service health-care provider in the world. To American eyes, Narayana's prices look as if they must be missing at least one zero, even as outcomes for patients meet or exceed international benchmarks. Surgery for head and neck cancers starts at $700. Endoscopy is $14; a lung transplant, $7,000. Even a heart transplant will set a patient back only about $11,000. Narayana is dirt cheap even by Indian standards, with the investment bank Jefferies estimating that it can profitably offer some major surgeries for as little as half what domestic rivals charge.

...

Within a decade the company had a national network and, in 2014, even opened in the Cayman Islands, in part to attract medical tourists from the U.S. Two years later, Narayana Health went public in Mumbai; it's been continuously profitable since.

"Everyone does as much as they can," Ashwinikumar Kudari, a senior gastrointestinal surgeon, says toward the end of a busy day at the Bangalore hospital. He's just removed two malignant tumors the size of golf balls from a middle-aged woman'sintestines" the seventh surgery he's performed or supervised since morning. A compact man with a trim mustache and a wry smile, Kudari is soon on the move again, checking in briefly on a gallstone removal next door before dashing up a spiral staircase to another operating theater. There, he takes over from a colleague who's struggling to locate a particularly tricky fistula. "Our margins are low on one surgery, but because we do so many in a day, we can make enough," he remarks after the elusive fistula the longest he's ever seen is found, running from the man's anus to above his groin. By working at this pace, the average Narayana surgeon performs as many as six times more procedures annually than an American counterpart.

This model is the exact opposite of US ass-raping hospitals.

As for quality:

The data appear to back Shetty up. In part because its huge volumes help surgeons quickly develop proficiency, the chain's mortality rates are comparable to or lower than those in the developed world, at least for some procedures. About 1.4 percent of Narayana patients die within 30 days following a heart bypass, according to the Commonwealth Fund, which studies public health, compared with 1.9 percent in the U.S. Narayana also outperforms Western systems in results for valve replacements and heart-attack treatment, the group found.

He has big dreams:

"I would like in my lifetime for every citizen of this planet to get health care at a price they can afford to pay without having to beg or sell something"

And it will happen because of capitalism, not socialism.
 
India's per capita income is about $1,800 per year.

Per PayScale, the salaries in this heath system are commensurately low.

Job​
Average Salary for Narayana (₹)​
Average Salary for Narayana ($)​
Staff Nurse
₹123k - ₹449k​
$1,640 - $6,007​
Physician / Doctor, Internal Medicine
₹354k - ₹5m​
$4,736 - $66,890​
Account Executive
₹117k - ₹295k​
$1,565 - $3,946​
Cardiac Surgeon
₹3m - ₹22m​
$40,134 - $294,314​
Purchasing Manager
₹260k - ₹803k​
$3,478 - $10,742​
Physiotherapist
₹129k - ₹708k​
$1,726 - $9,471​
Physician / Doctor, Radiologist
₹609k - ₹3m​
$8,147 - $40,134​

There's no universe in which these annual salary ranges could ever be the "real market rate" in the United States.
 
India's per capita income is about $1,800 per year.

Per PayScale, the salaries in this heath system are commensurately low.

Job​
Average Salary for Narayana (₹)​
Average Salary for Narayana ($)​
Staff Nurse
₹123k - ₹449k​
$1,640 - $6,007​
Physician / Doctor, Internal Medicine
₹354k - ₹5m​
$4,736 - $66,890​
Account Executive
₹117k - ₹295k​
$1,565 - $3,946​
Cardiac Surgeon
₹3m - ₹22m​
$40,134 - $294,314​
Purchasing Manager
₹260k - ₹803k​
$3,478 - $10,742​
Physiotherapist
₹129k - ₹708k​
$1,726 - $9,471​
Physician / Doctor, Radiologist
₹609k - ₹3m​
$8,147 - $40,134​

There's no universe in which these annual salary ranges could ever be the "real market rate" in the United States.

That doesnt even touch the salaries of the clerks, the cleaners, the guys who fix equipment, the techs who are in the labs and pharmacy and OR.

They would all dream of getting $2000/yr.

And they dont get significant benefits, as far as I know.
 
There's no universe in which these annual salary ranges could ever be the "real market rate" in the United States.

Read much? I didn't say anything about salaries. The claim was "the real market price for healthcare is astonishingly low."

The fact is they can do a procedure for 10k that cost 200k in an ass-raping, price-gouging US hospital. Want to find out what the real market price is for healthcare in the us? Let them come here and set up shop and compete. Then we'll find out what the real price for that procedure is in the US. I don't know how much it will be, but I know it will be astonishingly low.
 
Read much? I didn't say anything about salaries. The claim was "the real market price for healthcare is astonishingly low."

Health care is a service, of course we're talking in large part about compensation for labor. And you've pointed out that a hospital that pays nurses and administrators a few thousand dollars per year is cheaper than a hospital in the United State. Gee whiz, you think?

Health care in the U.S. would indeed cost substantially less if most people working in it made a fraction of the pay a McDonald's fry cook makes.
 
Read much? I didn't say anything about salaries. The claim was "the real market price for healthcare is astonishingly low."

The fact is they can do a procedure for 10k that cost 200k in an ass-raping, price-gouging US hospital. Want to find out what the real market price is for healthcare in the us? Let them come here and set up shop and compete. Then we'll find out what the real price for that procedure is in the US. I don't know how much it will be, but I know it will be astonishingly low.

Well, the US has the freest market in the world for drugs.

And the cost of the OR drugs alone would be thousands.

So much for the free market, unless you want to dismantle regulation and allow guys to cook up antibiotics in their bathtubs.
 
Read much? I didn't say anything about salaries. The claim was "the real market price for healthcare is astonishingly low."

The fact is they can do a procedure for 10k that cost 200k in an ass-raping, price-gouging US hospital. Want to find out what the real market price is for healthcare in the us? Let them come here and set up shop and compete. Then we'll find out what the real price for that procedure is in the US. I don't know how much it will be, but I know it will be astonishingly low.

They can do that in the US. there is a hospital that does these types of surgeries for all cash and they charge about the same price.
I have been pushing this model for a while. the only people that oppose it are the typical leftist squad that thinks government should control everything.
 
Health care is a service, of course we're talking in large part about compensation for labor.

What service isn't produced by labor? Every single person who works in a US hospital is drastically overpaid, because the competitive aspect of the US healthcare market has been destroyed by endless government intervention and regulation. US hospitals don't even provide prices, ffs.

You're more worried about maintaining the grossly inflated salaries of a few million doctors and nurses than the healthcare of 330 million people.
 
What service isn't produced by labor?

None! Nor are there many industries built on paying Americans 80 cents to a dollar an hour.

If that's your proposed solution to health care spending, keep looking.

Every single person who works in a US hospital is drastically overpaid, because the competitive aspect of the US healthcare market has been destroyed by endless government intervention and regulation. US hospitals don't even provide prices, ffs.

Overpaid relative to what? Wages in India?

Competition for labor doesn't stop at the boundaries of any industry. If you want nurses to make 80 cents an hour, then labor will flow to other industries offering normal American wages. And you won't have any nurses staffing your hospital. Same principle for those doing finance, maintenance, legal work, whatever, in a health care setting.

You're more worried about maintaining the grossly inflated salaries of a few million doctors and nurses than the healthcare of 330 million people.

More people in this country work in the health sector than any other sector. Setting their wages using Indian pay scales would do a lot to empty out the sector and reduce its costs, sure. But on what planet is that realistic?
 
More people in this country work in the health sector than any other sector.

Who cares? At one time 95% of the people in the country worked in agriculture. What eliminated those jobs is the drastic reduction in food prices, caused by technology, but it doesn't matter how it happens.

They are a special interest group which is severely harming the general population.

All I want is free and open competition in the healthcare industry.
 
Who cares? At one time 95% of the people in the country worked in agriculture. What eliminated those jobs is the drastic reduction in food prices, caused by technology, but it doesn't matter how it happens.

If your example was of a hospital that slashed its operating costs by automating all the jobs other hospitals rely on people to do, that would make sense! But instead its one with very low (relative to American hospitals) costs because it's paying people 80 cents an hour. Because it's in India.

That's not a strategy that's transferable to the American market.
 
If your example was of a hospital that slashed its operating costs by automating all the jobs other hospitals rely on people to do, that would make sense! But instead its one with very low (relative to American hospitals) costs because it's paying people 80 cents an hour. Because it's in India.

That's not a strategy that's transferable to the American market.

Whoever thinks that must be wundumho.
 
If your example was of a hospital that slashed its operating costs by automating all the jobs other hospitals rely on people to do, that would make sense!

It makes no difference whatsoever whether the price is lowered by technological advancements, or by people willing to work for less money. A big part of why the American standard of living is so high comes from the fact that we import so many goods from other countries where labor is dirt cheap.

Allowing foreign doctors (as many as are willing) to come to the US and set up shop and compete in the US healthcare market would drastically lower prices and subsequently raise the standard of living for 330 million Americans.
 
It makes no difference whatsoever whether the price is lowered by technological advancements, or by people willing to work for less money. A big part of why the American standard of living is so high comes from the fact that we import so many goods from other countries where labor is dirt cheap.

Allowing foreign doctors (as many as are willing) to come to the US and set up shop and compete in the US healthcare market would drastically lower prices and subsequently raise the standard of living for 330 million Americans.

Really because right wingers keep telling me we can't do medicare for all because medicare pays doctors less, and then doctors would just quit.
 
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