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I have an opinion on Medicare for All. You have an opinion on Medicare for All.

Craig234

Craig234

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And people who only care about the billions of dollars they make from NOT having Medicare for All have an opinion dictated by the money on it. And they have a lot of money, a front group, and lobbying for THEIR opinion, which counts for a lot more than citizens'.

As the coronavirus pandemic spreads across the United States, laying bare the myriad dysfunctions and inefficiencies of America's for-profit healthcare system, a powerful insurance industry front group is openly ramping up its campaign against systemic healthcare reforms that experts say would help mitigate the outbreak and guarantee essential care for all...

To that end, PAHCF last week launched a Facebook ad blitz against Connecticut's state public option plan and began laying the groundwork for propaganda efforts in other major states, including New York and California. PAHCF was formed in 2018 by major healthcare industry interests with the goal of squashing growing public support for single-payer.
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This is what citizens who want Medicare for All as a better system, what Bernie and his supporters, are up against.

'Despicable': Insurance Industry Front Group Ramps Up Propaganda Against Medicare for All Amid Coronavirus Pandemic | Common Dreams News
 
150,000,000 Americans have health insurance via their work.

Bernie was planning on outlawing workplace health insurance.

Even if just 20% of that 150 million liked their workplace health insurance, we'd see four more years of Trump.
 
The irony is that the entire system is "highly regulated capitalism", which the political left created via its regulatory state as an alternative to something like England's NHS.

Now the entire industry is filled with labor cartels and special interest groups all riding the gravy train straight to the bank. Everything regarding healthcare is now based on politics, and when decisions are made by politics, the politically powerful tend to get their way. The political left has created this monster, and there's no fixing it.
 
aociswundumho said:
The irony is that the entire system is "highly regulated capitalism", which the political left created via its regulatory state as an alternative to something like England's NHS.

Now the entire industry is filled with labor cartels and special interest groups all riding the gravy train straight to the bank. Everything regarding healthcare is now based on politics, and when decisions are made by politics, the politically powerful tend to get their way. The political left has created this monster, and there's no fixing it.
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It's even obvious from charges and discounts that would never make sense in any sort of real market. When the charge rate for a blood test that I get is over $400.00 (for the uninsured), but the negotiated rate for the insurance company is $11.00.

Yeppers, it must be the quantity; you see a lot of four hundred dollar items that go for around 10 bucks when you buy in bulk.

Not so bad with doctor fees, but take a look at the charges to people without insurance for test and procedures - $4,000 for an MRI without insurance, $400 with.

It's all politics.
 
This pandemic is jackpot for for-profit healthcare industry. Dream situation. Rest of the world can't make much money out of this, but US can. Joys of true capitalism :2wave:
 
FinnFox said:
This pandemic is jackpot for for-profit healthcare industry. Dream situation. Rest of the world can't make much money out of this, but US can. Joys of true capitalism :2wave:
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If "true capitalism" were the issue then we'd have the same problem of sky-high prices in markets for food, computers, cellphones, potato chips, carpet, bird cages, picnic tables, oranges, umbrellas, and literally hundreds of thousands of other products and services.

But we don't. Under "true capitalism" prices are under constant downward pressure. Only under regulated capitalism do we see competition strictly controlled by government with consequent sky-high prices. If you're looking for a villain in this scenario, it's the state. As usual.
 
FinnFox said:
This pandemic is jackpot for for-profit healthcare industry. Dream situation. Rest of the world can't make much money out of this, but US can. Joys of true capitalism :2wave:
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Not a dream situation.

Canceled surgeries, COVID-19 patients could be 'double whammy' for hospitals
COVID-19 could be a double whammy for hospitals' finances in that they're putting off high-margin surgeries to treat expensive, complex coronavirus patients with no way to predict reimbursement.

"It probably will be significant in most cases," Chip Kahn, CEO of the Federation of American Hospitals, said of the novel coronavirus' financial impact on hospitals. "In some situations, if we're taking about two or three months of this … you could see many hospitals with their backs to the wall."
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Paul Hughes-Cromwick, co-director of sustainable health spending strategies with the research and consulting organization Altarum, predicts this will need to end in some sort of financial bailout for hospitals similar to the Troubled Asset Relief Program, a $700 billion government bailout in 2008. How much will depend on the outbreak's severity.

COVID-19 patients may be very expensive to treat and may or may not have private insurance. At the same time, canceling profitable procedures presents a "double whammy," Hughes-Cromwick said.

"That is the game when you're running a hospital," he said. "You survive because of your high margin services that you can counter against your low margin ones."
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Craig234 said:
And people who only care about the billions of dollars they make from NOT having Medicare for All have an opinion dictated by the money on it. And they have a lot of money, a front group, and lobbying for THEIR opinion, which counts for a lot more than citizens'.



This is what citizens who want Medicare for All as a better system, what Bernie and his supporters, are up against.

'Despicable': Insurance Industry Front Group Ramps Up Propaganda Against Medicare for All Amid Coronavirus Pandemic | Common Dreams News
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I like this post definitely. Health Care for ALL is a grassroots organization that I spent 5 years with in an effort to learn. There were so many "local organizations". Quite an interesting group which includes doctors and nurses.

The big items which should be important to most are no more deductibles, no co-pays, full coverage which includes chiropractor, dental and eyes, everybody pays so nobody skates, the insurance will always be there no matter what , it's the best bang for the buck though never free, picks up cancer treatment and in the end all who enroll have more expendable income.

Where I differ is who should decide who pays for the coverage? The people should have the last word. Place this issue on the ballot = get the politicians/profiteers out of the way.

What should be the choices?

1. Taxpayer supported Single Payer Insurance = excellent use of tax dollars

2. Employer Based Coverage

3. Out of pocket for those with the dough which is done as we speak.


Some sites
Bernie Sanders' Health Care Revolution | Dollars & Sense

https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
 
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Craig234 said:
And people who only care about the billions of dollars they make from NOT having Medicare for All have an opinion dictated by the money on it. And they have a lot of money, a front group, and lobbying for THEIR opinion, which counts for a lot more than citizens'.

This is what citizens who want Medicare for All as a better system, what Bernie and his supporters, are up against.

'Despicable': Insurance Industry Front Group Ramps Up Propaganda Against Medicare for All Amid Coronavirus Pandemic | Common Dreams News
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Look at the performance of your single payer nations in this crisis. France, Spain, Italy and the UK all had "highly rated health systems" compared to the WHO bull**** metrics against the US. However their fatality rates are multiples of ours. What gives?
 
bave said:
Look at the performance of your single payer nations in this crisis. France, Spain, Italy and the UK all had "highly rated health systems" compared to the WHO bull**** metrics against the US. However their fatality rates are multiples of ours. What gives?
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first off, you are comparing apples to oranges, health care ratings are a review of NORMAL periods, and there is no dispute they were delivering better outcomes at much lower costs. Pandemics are not normal.

Second, Italy has been hit hard due to them being one of the first to get the virus, having a population skewed older. They were slow to respond.

We, well, west coast governors, applied shut down orders quickly, as did NY state....but the US was on the same track as most EU states as far as case rates.

Keep in mind, this is a logarithmic scale:

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swing_voter said:
150,000,000 Americans have health insurance via their work.

Bernie was planning on outlawing workplace health insurance.

Even if just 20% of that 150 million liked their workplace health insurance, we'd see four more years of Trump.
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This banks under the assumption that they wouldn't like M4A better.
 
FinnFox said:
This pandemic is jackpot for for-profit healthcare industry. Dream situation. Rest of the world can't make much money out of this, but US can. Joys of true capitalism :2wave:
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Actually.. its killing the for profit healthcare industry in America. .. In some ways.. literally. :(
 
Razoo said:
Medicare Fraud Indictments
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062401906.html


Senate Report Finds Insurers Wrongfully Charged Consumers Billions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062401636.html

Health insurers have forced consumers to pay billions of dollars in medical bills that the insurers themselves should have paid.
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The fundamental problem with Medicare for All is that is largely championed by people who are clueless about medicare. There is no pretense of a cap on what you can be billed with medicare so the only way to even protect yourself with a $7K out of pocket cap is to buy private supplemental insurance because they do have a cap.
 
swing_voter said:
150,000,000 Americans have health insurance via their work.

Bernie was planning on outlawing workplace health insurance.

Even if just 20% of that 150 million liked their workplace health insurance, we'd see four more years of Trump.
Click to expand...

I agree that outlawing workplace health insurance would be a political nightmare. What I would like to see is a medicare for all AND employers be able to offer supplemental health insurance on top of medicare for all. This would provide a foundation of health care and employers could still offer "cadillac" benefits to attract employers. These supplemental plans would be much easier for companies to manage and less costly.
 
It's beyond disgusting that the USA is the only first world country to not have Universal Healthcare when even some third world countries do. But it's all about greed and money and fooling stupid people and dividing Democrats who are in Unions to be greedy and not realize the may one day lose their jobs and be screwed or that their family members will be screwed too.

The craziest are the poor in the red states who gladly line up once a year and sleep in their cars so that their kids can see a charity doctor in a tent.

Another crazy thing is the price of Insulin being 10 times as much as it is in Canada.

The same way we banned cigarette ads on TV we should ban Big Pharma ads as a health crisis, people should not be telling their doctors what they want, doctors should be prescribing what people need and the most reliable medications that are affordable and have been on the market for decades.
 
BlueTex said:
I agree that outlawing workplace health insurance would be a political nightmare. What I would like to see is a medicare for all AND employers be able to offer supplemental health insurance on top of medicare for all. This would provide a foundation of health care and employers could still offer "cadillac" benefits to attract employers. These supplemental plans would be much easier for companies to manage and less costly.
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We should start with "Medicare for all who want it" because you would have to be an idiot to not want it. Tying employment to your well being and health insurance is a crime the rich are perpetrating on the poor and the working class,.

Not only that, there was a story of a man who was told he needed emergency surgery because if he twisted the wrong way he could instantly be paralyzed for life. So he went and go it and his insurance company said it was not needed. So now he owes about $750,000 and use to be upper middle class, but will soon be broke. out of network is another scam they use to steal from the poor to give to the rich.
 
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