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Righties, what are you more offended by?

Craig234 said:
No, they don't. Some right-wingers make such people up. And of course those same right-wingers pretend that rich people simply made up all the wealth they have themselves with no one's help, and 'earned' every penny, and that massive concentration of wealth doesn't affect anyone.

I support it as a big improvement and step in the right direction toward single-payer universal healthcare.
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Your position is clear. Wrong, but clear.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Either you are disabled or you are not. There is no "considered" with that word. No, you can't consider yourself disabled - only medical professionals can determine that.

You did not answer my question. Again, why do you think I am personally forcing other people to pay me money?
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Other people with the same medical conditions as I have, have filed for and received SSDI. I am still capable and willing to work, and will do so until I can't.

I did not use the word 'force'. Don't play that game with me. You just think the government grows that money all on their own? No, they take it by coercion from one set of people, to give to another.

Vance, you obviously don't understand why people need government assistance amd others have be responsible for helping them.
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Bold by me, since you seemed to have forgotten....
 
Gotta, you implied I am just being a beggar, asking people to pay for my health care, when "they" is the emphasized pronoun. That is what offends me about conservatives. They just take my words at face value instead of looking at the big picture.
 
Blue Donkey said:
It is obvious you only care about keeping $10,000 to yourself and don't want to help anyone else if you can afford to give it to people in need. t.[/QUOTE
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Yeah... its obvious that you have trouble with reading comprehension. IF I help them personally it costs 10,000. I am ALREADY doing things like that. And more.

Now… IF say that money has to be collected in tax.. and then giving back to those kids... well.. for 10,000 to get to those kids... I end up having to pay say 12,000 in taxes.. because I have to pay for the tax folks to collect it.. pay for the administration of the program, the pay for it to be distributed to those kids.

Understand? Maybe you really don;t get it. Lets say that I was middle class and all I really could give was 10,000 and the kids needed 10,000. Well.. if I give those kids 10,000.. they get that 10 grand.

BUT.. if I give that 10,000 in taxes.. and it has to go through all the administration.. before it comes back to the kids... then the kids only get 8,000 instead of the 10,000. Because administration by the government.. ate up some of that money.



I already posted a link that shows studies that republicans actually give more to charity than democrats.

AND when you consider that those republicans have to pay the same taxes as democrats....

Sorry.. but you are just plain wrong about this. Your hate and anger notwithstanding.
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Donations don't go to the kids directly either, actually. There is still administrative work to do no matter who is collecting the money.

Do you understand it is easier for rich people to donate $10,000 and therefore it makes sense to make them pay higher taxes than the middle class? It is only fair to have that tax system instead of a flat percentage for all taxpayers.
 
GottaGo said:
Your position is clear. Wrong, but clear.
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No, my position requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions, minimum levels of spending on healthcare, an end to junk policies, tens of millions more Americans with coverage, is correct; yours is not.
 
lurchadams said:
Sarcasm, my friend. Sorry to scare ya!
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I suspected, but didn't see where it came from, maybe there was something earlier in the thread?
 
Craig234 said:
I suspected, but didn't see where it came from, maybe there was something earlier in the thread?
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No, it's because sometimes I can be a bit of a troublemaker. Again, my apologies.
 
lurchadams said:
No, it's because sometimes I can be a bit of a troublemaker. Again, my apologies.
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Thanks; it just didn't make sense to me. It'd be as if I replied 'we need to bring back slavery' to this post, but indicated it was satire. Huh? Satire usually has some relevance, mocking a specific statement, incident, group, something relevant to a discussion. It was a reply to my post about healthcare. I know you meant no harm, but hopefully understand why there is confusion.
 
Craig234 said:
Thanks; it just didn't make sense to me. It'd be as if I replied 'we need to bring back slavery' to this post, but indicated it was satire. Huh? Satire usually has some relevance, mocking a specific statement, incident, group, something relevant to a discussion. It was a reply to my post about healthcare. I know you meant no harm, but hopefully understand why there is confusion.
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Well, ok. Remember how hysterical some of our friends on the right were and still are about people kneeling during the Pledge of Allegiance to protest police brutality against people of color? Or how they claim BLM is a "hate group"?

Those are a couple of phenomena that gave me the idea.
 
Craig234 said:
Poor people getting healthcare paid for by taxes, or Americans being killed by a lack of healthcare? You need to pick one.
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Conservatives don't care about poor people.

Unless they become poor.

Heartless morons.
 
lurchadams said:
Well, ok. Remember how hysterical some of our friends on the right were and still are about people kneeling during the Pledge of Allegiance to protest police brutality against people of color? Or how they claim BLM is a "hate group"?
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OK, but what did that have to do with my post on healthcare?
 
Craig234 said:
OK, but what did that have to do with my post on healthcare?
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Absolutely nothing... except that many people of color are poorer Americans without access to needed healthcare.
 
lurchadams said:
Absolutely nothing... except that many people of color are poorer Americans without access to needed healthcare.
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Ah, that was the connection. Ya, I'd say not the best connection, but no harm meant. You were basically expanding on the hostility to people of color, whether it's them getting healthcare or more broadly.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Donations don't go to the kids directly either, actually. There is still administrative work to do no matter who is collecting the money.
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Not as much as the administration of going to the federal government and then coming back.. and its a lot less likely to be diverted say for something idiotic..like "the wall".

Do you understand it is easier for rich people to donate $10,000 and therefore it makes sense to make them pay higher taxes than the middle class
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Yep.

It is only fair to have that tax system instead of a flat percentage for all taxpayers.
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No.. its NOT fair. Fair is that everyone is under the same tax system.

It may be practical to tax wealthy people more... but its not FAIR. Sorry man.. but I grew up in the juxtaposition between poor and middle class. And I see both sides of the issue. Yep.. there are wealthy kids that definitely have advantages and only get advancement because of their parents wealth and connections...

On the other hand.. I also saw a lot of poorer and middle class kids.. that made fun of me a lot for being uncool and having my nose in a book. and getting good grades.. and working hard. Kids.. who if they had applied themselves..would be making a LOT more than they are now.. and would not need welfare. And NOW.. I have to hear from the kids that made fun of me for getting good grades and applying myself.... that its not FAIR???.. that they make barely above minimum wage.. and its my RESPONSIBILITY???? to pay them? To provide healthcare for them when they drink a six pack a night..and smoke two packs a day?

Yeah.. the issue is a lot more complicated than you want to make it out to be.
 
It is totally unfair to make the middle class pay a higher percentage of its income than rich people. That is what a flat tax would do. Regardless of who pays and how much people are paying it all goes to the same government programs. So there is no reason for any American citizen who can afford to pay higher taxes to think he or she needs tax cuts and middle class people don't.
 
Blue Donkey said:
You are lying. Republicans refuse to donate to the poor, thinking nothing is more important than their own kind living in the lap of luxury.

Democrats want free healthcare, free education, and more because they care about poor people and the middle class.
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Giving free stuff to people hardly equals caring or concern. It can more accurately be said to reflect contempt and derision.
 
Dayton3 said:
Giving free stuff to people hardly equals caring or concern. It can more accurately be said to reflect contempt and derision.
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Why do you think this? The only reason to give free health care, education. amd more is you care about the people who need it.
 
Craig234 said:
No, my position requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions, minimum levels of spending on healthcare, an end to junk policies, tens of millions more Americans with coverage, is correct; yours is not.
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So you are good with telling other people what they need, what they should have, and demand they pay for everyone else?

So you see no other method than to load 200o pages of rules, regs and laws, without it being read first, without it's implications and impacts fully considered, in order to provide pre-existing insurance coverage?

Yes, there is something wrong with that, but I don't believe you would be inclined to consider it.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Gotta, you implied I am just being a beggar, asking people to pay for my health care, when "they" is the emphasized pronoun. That is what offends me about conservatives. They just take my words at face value instead of looking at the big picture.
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First, the fact that you refer to me as a 'conservative', means you haven't stepped back and looked at the big picture yourself. People are not an endless source to be pillaged to support the programs that other groups of people deem righteous. That well will run dry eventually, when everyone sees that receiving is better than giving.

Pockets are many and deep, when they are not your own. At what point does 'helping your fellow man' become a detriment to your own welfare? What level is considered kind and compassionate care of our fellow members of society?
 
GottaGo said:
First, the fact that you refer to me as a 'conservative', means you haven't stepped back and looked at the big picture yourself. People are not an endless source to be pillaged to support the programs that other groups of people deem righteous. That well will run dry eventually, when everyone sees that receiving is better than giving. Pockets are many and deep, when they are not your own. At what point does 'helping your fellow man' become a detriment to your own welfare? What level is considered kind and compassionate care of our fellow members of society?
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This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time - giving is extremely important if you have money to give, and receiving is nothing but selfishness and greed if you don't need but only want what are you refusing to give. Everyone, regardless of their opinions, is better giving than receiving if that person has anything of value to give. If you don't agree with this, you are evil, according to the only perfect man to ever live on Earth. I am not saying it to be mean, but to tell the proven, undeneiable truth about mankind.
 
Blue Donkey said:
This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time - giving is extremely important if you have money to give, and receiving is nothing but selfishness and greed if you don't need but only want what are you refusing to give. Everyone, regardless of their opinions, is better giving than receiving if that person has anything of value to give. If you don't agree with this, you are evil, according to the only perfect man to ever live on Earth. I am not saying it to be mean, but to tell the proven, undeneiable truth about mankind.
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You can pull the 'only perfect man to ever live on Earth' out of the discussion. I am non-religious, and that has absolutely no involvement in this discussion.

Your coloration of the discussion in attempting to label anyone who doesn't give everything they have to other people as 'evil', is a poorly framed argument, even without the religious overtone. What I do or don't do has nothing to do with religion, or other people's perspective on what I should or should not do.

If someone wants that to be their guidance, they are welcome to it, but the fact that you attempt to paint your perspective on others, speaks very poorly of you, especially since you are the receiver, wanting the givers to give even more.
 
Blue Donkey said:
It is totally unfair to make the middle class pay a higher percentage of its income than rich people. t.
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No it wouldn't. Say you make 60,000 (average middle class)..and the first 36000 is the standard deduction. No other deductions after that. and a flat tax of say 15%

They would pay 15% on 24000.;.


Someone making 500,000 would pay 15% on 464,000. Please explain how the middle class is paying a higher percentage on their income.. in the above scenario.
 
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