Obama team confused on Medicare For All

jaeger19 · Dec 5, 2019

GreatNews2night said:
I know. I said my post above was just part of my arguments, and "I could go on" - yes, one of the problems I've mentioned elsewhere, is the huge unemployment that would be imposed upon 2 million health insurance workers. And yes, health care is a strong American industry that is responsible for a good chunk of the GDP, so throwing it into turmoil would have dire consequences for the overall economy.

Not to forget, if Medicare were to absorb 330 million beneficiaries, then it would face shortage of doctors and widespread hospital closings; next it's rationing... I heard from an otherwise good poster here, how he's satisfied with his Medicare, therefore he wishes other fellow Americans would be able to partake, too. Well, what he doesn't realize is that *his* Medicare won't ever be the same if it's extended "for all."

About the public option, I said it would be a start... a step in the right direction... but elsewhere, I've mentioned how even that would be extremely difficult to implement, and full of unintended consequences, some of which you've mentioned.

Who would have thought that health care was that complicated? (said Trump). LOL. Well, duh, it is probably THE most complicated domestic problem in America, and the way Warren and Sanders make it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world to fix, "just tax the rich", is extremely misleading and actually dishonest and disingenuous.

This is precisely why I've decided that I won't vote for Sanders or for Warren. I won't vote for a proponent of Medicare for All, because I firmly believe that these otherwise smart politicians know very well that what they are proposing is impossible, but still, they are willing to fool the masses and to make these empty populist promises for electoral purposes, and someone who lacks the integrity of telling hard things to voters the way they truly are, won't get my vote.

Very well said.

its hard being a republican because though I agree with what you said about Sanders and Warren... at least Sanders actually put forth a proposal before Congress.

We republicans had years and years of lambasting OBamacare andn chanting "repeal and replace"...and when it came to actually coming up with a healthcare plan?

We couldn't come up with ANYTHING.

Almost a decade of repeal and replace.. and NOTHING.

But yeah.. I agree with you on Bernie and especially Warren... either they know its all BS... OR they are not smart enough to understand the issues. Either way.. I don't want them.

I think the reality is Obamacare was a good start... and we don't need to do all that much to tweak it here and there. We need to reinstitute the mandate... inject more competition into insurance companies with perhaps the PO and maybe with states grants to open co ops.

In addition, I would like to see a total revamp of healthcare savings accounts.. so that rather than purchasing health plans for employees... employers can put money into healthcare savings accounts.. so employees can then purchase the plans that best work for them.

That would solve the portability problem of employer based healthcare. Inject more competition into the system.. and potentially be much cheaper.

GreatNews2night · Dec 5, 2019

jaeger19 said:
Very well said.

its hard being a republican because though I agree with what you said about Sanders and Warren... at least Sanders actually put forth a proposal before Congress.

We republicans had years and years of lambasting OBamacare andn chanting "repeal and replace"...and when it came to actually coming up with a healthcare plan?

We couldn't come up with ANYTHING.

Almost a decade of repeal and replace.. and NOTHING.

But yeah.. I agree with you on Bernie and especially Warren... either they know its all BS... OR they are not smart enough to understand the issues. Either way.. I don't want them.

I think the reality is Obamacare was a good start... and we don't need to do all that much to tweak it here and there. We need to reinstitute the mandate... inject more competition into insurance companies with perhaps the PO and maybe with states grants to open co ops.

In addition, I would like to see a total revamp of healthcare savings accounts.. so that rather than purchasing health plans for employees... employers can put money into healthcare savings accounts.. so employees can then purchase the plans that best work for them.

That would solve the portability problem of employer based healthcare. Inject more competition into the system.. and potentially be much cheaper.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Better Obamacare with a public option and some of the tweaks you've mentioned would be the way to go. But Trump wanted to dismantle anything that had the name Obama attached to it... and the GOP doesn't really want to solve the healthcare issue. They just want to complain about it and score political points with the uninformed masses.

Oh well, France is not the utmost paradise either. Have you heard about the massive strikes and protests going on today, around Macron's attempt to reform the retirement system?

jaeger19 · Dec 5, 2019

GreatNews2night said:
I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Better Obamacare with a public option and some of the tweaks you've mentioned would be the way to go. But Trump wanted to dismantle anything that had the name Obama attached to it... and the GOP doesn't really want to solve the healthcare issue. They just want to complain about it and score political points with the uninformed masses.

Oh well, France is not the utmost paradise either. Have you heard about the massive strikes and protests going on today, around Macron's attempt to reform the retirement system?

Well.. I actually liked that about the French. They are ready to get down and dirty with their government. Not that I think riots and striking are the way to get things done... but.. I like that the French give a crap about politics and their own governance.

We have so much complacency here... its astounding.

They just want to complain about it and score political points with the uninformed masses.

Well.. that has been the way our politicians keep their jobs.

I think unfortunately both sides now understand this. Democrats went out on a limb and created Obamacare... which was frankly a massive undertaking and ultimately has been a good thing (for the most part)...but.. they took it in the shorts politically. Because any real solution.. is going to have some winners or losers.. or even just be a change.. and people fear what they don't know..

Right now you have both sides.. and actually mostly the democrats playing it up. They want to act like people are lying in the streets dying in America for lack of healthcare and going bankrupt at the drop of a hat over medical bills. .. while other countries get free healthcare and live in the lap of luxury.

The general public knows that's not the case.. and the democrats are unfortunately going to find I fear.. that if they elect warren or sanders as their candidate.. that Trump will win because elderly white voters.. are going to fear warren or sanders messing with them... more than they fear Trumps shenanigans.

GreatNews2night · Dec 5, 2019

jaeger19 said:
The general public knows that's not the case.. and the democrats are unfortunately going to find I fear.. that if they elect warren or sanders as their candidate.. that Trump will win because elderly white voters.. are going to fear warren or sanders messing with them... more than they fear Trumps shenanigans.

Exactly. Elderly voters are the most reliable segment, while the young crowds all passionate for Sanders love to attend rallies where they can smoke pot and hook up with other youngsters, but when it's time to go to the polls and wait for three hours to cast a vote, they'll prefer to stay home and play videogames and smoke more pot.

Both Sanders and Warren will lose to Trump. This much is pretty clear to me.

jaeger19 · Dec 6, 2019

GreatNews2night said:
Exactly. Elderly voters are the most reliable segment, while the young crowds all passionate for Sanders love to attend rallies where they can smoke pot and hook up with other youngsters, but when it's time to go to the polls and wait for three hours to cast a vote, they'll prefer to stay home and play videogames and smoke more pot.

Both Sanders and Warren will lose to Trump. This much is pretty clear to me.

Exactly.. at the end of the day.. its still elderly white people that dominate the vote. And while Sander and Warren do well in liberal areas... to be President.. you have to win over the whole country. Democrats didn't understand how they lost with Hillary Clinton..and now they are doubling down to lose with sanders or warren.

At the end of the day.. All of trumps crap aside.. the racism, the outright stupidity, the trade war, the taking away of children, the abuse of power...

None of that effects the white elderly voter particularly rural voters. .. like messing with Medicare.. raising taxes, and taking away firearms, At the end of the day.. Warren and Sanders are alienating the folks they need most to win a national election.