The right is telling you that your taxes will be doubled to pay for Medicare for all.

jbander · Nov 23, 2019

bave said:
The above is so grossly inaccurate it boggles the mind. No wonder you support socialist ideals, you don't understand basic accounting and businesses. The net margin for most major health systems is between 2-6%, depending on region and size. Many regional medical centers are -2% to 2%. This is why hospitals are closing. No businesses close with net margins of 37%.

The first article from google:

Hospital operating margins dropped 39% over 3 years | Healthcare Dive

"A new Navigant study analyzed for-profit and nonprofit provider networks and found that the average operating margin declined by almost 39% over the same time span, from 4.15% in 2015 to 2.56% in 2017. Nonprofit systems had a slightly lower than average decline, reporting margin drops of 34%."

Now, you can counter that this is for non-profit hospitals, to which my response will be that non-profit hospitals are going to represent ~80% of the market and for-profit hospitals run about 1% better on average.

Do you have any statistics and facts to counter? Or just some more marxist bull**** feelings?

I didn't say people should "care", I gave you the explanation as to why you saw a sudden increase in wealth creation. Automation has always hurt the low skilled worked, throughout history, but the world marches on.

I can't even understand the rest of your ramblings and gibberish, try to work on your communication skills. It is no wonder you are evidently so poor.

Get more crayons out. You can have any level of net margin that you want to present to the public by in increasing or decreasing bonuses. If you can't argue this which you can't, then it is you that doesn't know what your talking about. Ok back to the crayons The year that Bush and Obama handed out bailout money to the money groups ,they gave Goldman SachS 10 billion dollars , That year Goldman Sachs gave out 10 billion in bonuses, Real ass holes right? Never mind. That represented $375,000.00 for each and every person who worked for the company. Point being that net margin is simply what is left after operating expenses, taxes, interest and preferred stock. And if that is true, then we move on to Bonuses are operating expenses,and if that is true , you have no idea what your talking about. Meaning as I"ve said for the tenth time now a company can change it net margin by the bonuses it pays . Now if you don't understand this time come back and I'll change the color of the crayons , which may help. I find this to be so funny, the easiest way to turn a expert into a neanderthal is by telling them about business accounting. Something that many, especially experts right wingers know just about nothing about.

bave · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
Get more crayons out. You can have any level of net margin that you want to present to the public by in increasing or decreasing bonuses.

Which is why I am talking about gross margins as well. Do you think a regional hospital doing $1B in revenue is hiding $100MM in profit through bonuses? The regional hospital down the road from me, right now, their CEO is getting paid $425k all in. No one in the building that works for the hospital is getting paid more than that. This is all public information, which if you lie on, you go right to jail.

jbander said:
Ok back to the crayons The year that Bush and Obama handed out bailout money to the money groups ,they gave Goldman SachS 10 billion dollars , That year Goldman Sachs gave out 10 billion in bonuses, Real ass holes right? Never mind.

This, is simply not true for two reasons. First, they didn't *give* Goldman anything. They loaned them money, which had to be repaid with interest *and* warrants. That money was repaid and the US treasury realized a ~30% profit. Second, as I stated before, they didn't give out $10B in bonuses that year, or any other year. I cited the exact numbers in my previous post where their *total* paid compensation for 2009 was a bit over $10B. Which included all forms of comp, for all employees, inclusive of bonuses, stock grants, and fringe benefits. It was also lower than 2007 by a huge margin. Lastly, those *loans* via TARP were not a choice. Goldman, JPM, BAC, WFC none of them had a choice about whether to take that money or not. They were forced to by the FRB.

jbander said:
That represented $375,000.00 for each and every person who worked for the company. Point being that net margin is simply what is left after operating expenses, taxes, interest and preferred stock.

Again, see above. Do you even know what preferred stock is? This sentence again points out you are using words you shouldn't be.

jbander said:
And if that is true, then we move on to Bonuses are operating expenses,and if that is true , you have no idea what your talking about. Meaning as I"ve said for the tenth time now a company can change it net margin by the bonuses it pays . Now if you don't understand this time come back and I'll change the color of the crayons , which may help. I find this to be so funny, the easiest way to turn a expert into a neanderthal is by telling them about business accounting. Something that many, especially experts right wingers know just about nothing about.

Of course you can, but you are making up lies to make this statement work for your narrative. The bonuses for Goldman, and hospitals, are not a material line item in the size of their overall expenses. Goldman's total labor expense pool for 2018 was $12.13B. Of which, 13% was for all forms of incentive based compensation (ie: bonuses of all kinds). So that is ~$1.5B in bonuses, not the $10B. Get back to me when you have a clue about how to read a business ledger or K/Q's.

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Which is why I am talking about gross margins as well. Do you think a regional hospital doing $1B in revenue is hiding $100MM in profit through bonuses? The regional hospital down the road from me, right now, their CEO is getting paid $425k all in. No one in the building that works for the hospital is getting paid more than that. This is all public information, which if you lie on, you go right to jail.

This, is simply not true for two reasons. First, they didn't *give* Goldman anything. They loaned them money, which had to be repaid with interest *and* warrants. That money was repaid and the US treasury realized a ~30% profit. Second, as I stated before, they didn't give out $10B in bonuses that year, or any other year. I cited the exact numbers in my previous post where their *total* paid compensation for 2009 was a bit over $10B. Which included all forms of comp, for all employees, inclusive of bonuses, stock grants, and fringe benefits. It was also lower than 2007 by a huge margin. Lastly, those *loans* via TARP were not a choice. Goldman, JPM, BAC, WFC none of them had a choice about whether to take that money or not. They were forced to by the FRB.

Again, see above. Do you even know what preferred stock is? This sentence again points out you are using words you shouldn't be.

Of course you can, but you are making up lies to make this statement work for your narrative. The bonuses for Goldman, and hospitals, are not a material line item in the size of their overall expenses. Goldman's total labor expense pool for 2018 was $12.13B. Of which, 13% was for all forms of incentive based compensation (ie: bonuses of all kinds). So that is ~$1.5B in bonuses, not the $10B. Get back to me when you have a clue about how to read a business ledger or K/Q's.

Everyone something has to be made clear, this self apointed expert does not know what he is talking about FACT "Bonuses are a deductible business expense, in the category of "payments to employees." Don't be concerned with my source(ttps://www.thebalancesmb.com/giving-employee-bonuses-know-the-tax-implications-397631) simply google "are bonuses business expenses." Why is it these great experts like bave that know it all , know less then most. I quit reading his remarks in total and good advice is don't waste your time either, he will twist and distort and adjust his answer every time I totally destroy his remark point by point. I use to get a lot entertainment watching people like this continue non stop changing their story away from what they wrote every time you turn their points into BOZO talk. Well keep this real straight and easy for everyone to understand this nonsense , I said simply that you can make a business gross margin any number lower you want with bonuses. You can make a company have less or more gross margin by changing corporate bonuses. Responding to what he said "The above is so grossly inaccurate it boggles the mind. No wonder you support socialist ideals, you don't understand basic accounting and businesses. The net margin for most major health systems is between 2-6%, depending on region and size." and then we go around in circles him finding out that I am 100% right and him trying to twist and squirm to make me 100% wrong. These people are funny and entertaining but they can't be wrong, when he is finally backed totally into the corner , he will go after my spelling and the way I conjugate a verb. I know these routines they are all the same from this group of people. bave that is.

RetiredUSN · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
Everyone something has to be made clear, this self apointed expert does not know what he is talking about FACT "Bonuses are a deductible business expense, in the category of "payments to employees." Don't be concerned with my source(ttps://www.thebalancesmb.com/giving-employee-bonuses-know-the-tax-implications-397631) simply google "are bonuses business expenses." Why is it these great experts like bave that know it all , know less then most. I quit reading his remarks in total and good advice is don't waste your time either, he will twist and distort and adjust his answer every time I totally destroy his remark point by point. I use to get a lot entertainment watching people like this continue non stop changing their story away from what they wrote every time you turn their points into BOZO talk. Well keep this real straight and easy for everyone to understand this nonsense , I said simply that you can make a business gross margin any number lower you want with bonuses. You can make a company have less or more gross margin by changing corporate bonuses. Responding to what he said "The above is so grossly inaccurate it boggles the mind. No wonder you support socialist ideals, you don't understand basic accounting and businesses. The net margin for most major health systems is between 2-6%, depending on region and size." and then we go around in circles him finding out that I am 100% right and him trying to twist and squirm to make me 100% wrong. These people are funny and entertaining but they can't be wrong, when he is finally backed totally into the corner , he will go after my spelling and the way I conjugate a verb. I know these routines they are all the same from this group of people. bave that is.

Where are you going to get the 32 Trillion?

Money trees died out a long time ago.

bave · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
Everyone something has to be made clear, this self apointed expert does not know what he is talking about FACT "Bonuses are a deductible business expense, in the category of "payments to employees." Don't be concerned with my source(ttps://www.thebalancesmb.com/giving-employee-bonuses-know-the-tax-implications-397631) simply google "are bonuses business expenses." Why is it these great experts like bave that know it all , know less then most. I quit reading his remarks in total and good advice is don't waste your time either, he will twist and distort and adjust his answer every time I totally destroy his remark point by point. I use to get a lot entertainment watching people like this continue non stop changing their story away from what they wrote every time you turn their points into BOZO talk. Well keep this real straight and easy for everyone to understand this nonsense , I said simply that you can make a business gross margin any number lower you want with bonuses. You can make a company have less or more gross margin by changing corporate bonuses. Responding to what he said "The above is so grossly inaccurate it boggles the mind. No wonder you support socialist ideals, you don't understand basic accounting and businesses. The net margin for most major health systems is between 2-6%, depending on region and size." and then we go around in circles him finding out that I am 100% right and him trying to twist and squirm to make me 100% wrong. These people are funny and entertaining but they can't be wrong, when he is finally backed totally into the corner , he will go after my spelling and the way I conjugate a verb. I know these routines they are all the same from this group of people. bave that is.

Dumdum. No one ever said they are not business expenses. You are however outright lying about the size of the bonuses. You are lying about Goldman Sachs bonus levels and being "given" money. You are lying about hospital profitability. These are not debated facts, anywhere.

Why don't you post up an earnings statement showing me a situation where the bonuses are distorting the profitability and net margin being reported by a business. Can you link even one? These are all public records kiddo, just dig one up and let me know.

Meanwhile, here are Goldman's reports for the last 10 years. You can see their bonus structure, payouts, and ratios clearly in each annual report.

Goldman Sachs | Investor Relations -

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
Where are you going to get the 32 Trillion?

Money trees died out a long time ago.

32.65 trillion was paid for healthcare in 2018, catch up, this amount is literally in the pot all ready. Crayon time. in ten years the best prediction I could find the annual healthcare cost will go up to 7 trillion annually . so that means that we will spend for the next decade 54 trillion give or take. Show me a non Nazi sourced reference that says it will cost more then that for medicare for all. Or come up with your own numbers again non Nazi sourced numbers. FOX Crap News and Rush the fat guy sources won't be excepted

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Dumdum. No one ever said they are not business expenses. You are however outright lying about the size of the bonuses. You are lying about Goldman Sachs bonus levels and being "given" money. You are lying about hospital profitability. These are not debated facts, anywhere.

Why don't you post up an earnings statement showing me a situation where the bonuses are distorting the profitability and net margin being reported by a business. Can you link even one? These are all public records kiddo, just dig one up and let me know.

Meanwhile, here are Goldman's reports for the last 10 years. You can see their bonus structure, payouts, and ratios clearly in each annual report.

Goldman Sachs | Investor Relations -[/QUOTE OOPSD missed again look at this wrong on every single one of your points so far , even after lying over and over on what you reallys said , it's 100% bull**** and like I said you have no idea what your talking about

HERES SOME MORE FOOD FOR IDIOTS

Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Dumdum. No one ever said they are not business expenses. You are however outright lying about the size of the bonuses. You are lying about Goldman Sachs bonus levels and being "given" money. You are lying about hospital profitability. These are not debated facts, anywhere.

Why don't you post up an earnings statement showing me a situation where the bonuses are distorting the profitability and net margin being reported by a business. Can you link even one? These are all public records kiddo, just dig one up and let me know.

Meanwhile, here are Goldman's reports for the last 10 years. You can see their bonus structure, payouts, and ratios clearly in each annual report.

Goldman Sachs | Investor Relations -

This is how the clown act works He says they were not given money, how did they get it then. Given in no way means anything other then the process of handing it to them. From the expert "You are lying about Goldman Sachs bonus levels" well **** on that point a bit didn't I/ From the expert "Why don't you post up an earnings statement showing me a situation where the bonuses are distorting the profitability and net margin being reported by a business. Can you link even one? These are all public records kiddo, just dig one up and let me know." If Bonuses are business expenses ,every dime will lower their bottom line by one dime. Golly can't argue that can you. maybe you didn't say that, From the expert"You are lying about hospital profitability. These are not debated facts, anywhere." never said anything about hospital profitability other then that bonuses can change hospital profitability. and we all know that that is true don't we????????

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

Don't you just love these experts. The poor guy is zero for 10 give or take.

bave · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
32.65 trillion was paid for healthcare in 2018, catch up, this amount is literally in the pot all ready. Crayon time. in ten years the best prediction I could find the annual healthcare cost will go up to 7 trillion annually . so that means that we will spend for the next decade 54 trillion give or take. Show me a non Nazi sourced reference that says it will cost more then that for medicare for all. Or come up with your own numbers again non Nazi sourced numbers. FOX Crap News and Rush the fat guy sources won't be excepted

Let's take someone seriously who can't differentiate then and than, except and accept. Jesus.

jbander said:
Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10

bave said:

Ugh, read the annual report. A huge part of the 2009 numbers you are posting are including severance and one time charges. Or are you calling a severance payment a bonus?

jbander said:

This is how the clown act works He says they were not given money, how did they get it then. Given in no way means anything other then the process of handing it to them. From the expert "You are lying about Goldman Sachs bonus levels" well **** on that point a bit didn't I/ From the expert "Why don't you post up an earnings statement showing me a situation where the bonuses are distorting the profitability and net margin being reported by a business. Can you link even one? These are all public records kiddo, just dig one up and let me know." If Bonuses are business expenses ,every dime will lower their bottom line by one dime. Golly can't argue that can you. maybe you didn't say that, From the expert"You are lying about hospital profitability. These are not debated facts, anywhere." never said anything about hospital profitability other then that bonuses can change hospital profitability. and we all know that that is true don't we????????

Click to expand...

You specifically stated hospitals as to have 30%+ margins.

jbander said:

Don't you just love these experts. The poor guy is zero for 10 give or take.

Click to expand...

You can't master the basics of english, I imagine GAAP is a bridge too far.

Best of luck in perpetual poverty sport.

Click to expand...

RetiredUSN · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
32.65 trillion was paid for healthcare in 2018, catch up, this amount is literally in the pot all ready. Crayon time. in ten years the best prediction I could find the annual healthcare cost will go up to 7 trillion annually . so that means that we will spend for the next decade 54 trillion give or take. Show me a non Nazi sourced reference that says it will cost more then that for medicare for all. Or come up with your own numbers again non Nazi sourced numbers. FOX Crap News and Rush the fat guy sources won't be excepted

32.6 trillion was not paid for entirely by the government. The government spent 1.1 trillion.

LOL.... pass that 32.6 trillion on to the middle class and see what happens to the economy.

We already saw how you and your ilk (Democrats) ****ed up the middle class with the ACA.

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
32.6 trillion was not paid for entirely by the government. The government spent 1.1 trillion.

LOL.... pass that 32.6 trillion on to the middle class and see what happens to the economy.

We already saw how you and your ilk (Democrats) ****ed up the middle class with the ACA.

If it was paid for by the government, the insurance company or out of pocket , it has all been accounted for and all paid by Americans, that is the base for the pot, for there to be a increase in cost and that is what we are talking about , it will have to cost like I said over 54 trillion in the next decade. No plan that I've seen from a rational source has projected Medicare for all costing more then that. So if it cost 53 trillion this country's population will save 1 trillion dollars . I know this just tears you haters heart to ****. because it screws up a talking point that you want to insist is a disaster for this country and needing massive tax increases. But again as usual you people are just full of bull****.

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Let's take someone seriously who can't differentiate then and than, except and accept. Jesus.

jbander said:

Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10

bave said:

Ugh, read the annual report. A huge part of the 2009 numbers you are posting are including severance and one time charges. Or are you calling a severance payment a bonus?

You specifically stated hospitals as to have 30%+ margins.

You can't master the basics of english, I imagine GAAP is a bridge too far.

Best of luck in perpetual poverty sport.

Click to expand...

You know you ripped their heart out in a debate when they attack your spelling and the way you conjugate a verb, buddy you just admitted failure. Doesn't matter really anyway, everyone here knows your wrong.

Click to expand...

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Let's take someone seriously who can't differentiate then and than, except and accept. Jesus.

jbander said:

Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10

bave said:

Ugh, read the annual report. A huge part of the 2009 numbers you are posting are including severance and one time charges. Or are you calling a severance payment a bonus?

You specifically stated hospitals as to have 30%+ margins.

You can't master the basics of english, I imagine GAAP is a bridge too far.

Best of luck in perpetual poverty sport.

Click to expand...

Then show us where I said hospitals have 30 %+ margin. Now for everyone else to check just Use find and put 30 in the box, 30 was used by him multiple times, and I had a scenario about a potential number "Lets have a little question period. Let me see , a major medical group made up of 30 hospitals and 50 clinics. Makes 40% margin, so they elect to invest 30% in new hospitals equipment and clinics and massively raise their own pay , bonuses to make up 7% of what left of that margin. Tell me what their books show at the end of the year , whats there margin." but not even close to saying hospitals have a 30% margin . Every time I ve proved what a liar he is , HE does a pres scum bag on us and changes the lie to see if he can make it fit. It's real easy to check his point out. use find and type 30 in the box , OOPS He's a bull****ter.

Click to expand...

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Let's take someone seriously who can't differentiate then and than, except and accept. Jesus.

jbander said:

Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10

bave said:

Ugh, read the annual report. A huge part of the 2009 numbers you are posting are including severance and one time charges. Or are you calling a severance payment a bonus?

You specifically stated hospitals as to have 30%+ margins.

You can't master the basics of english, I imagine GAAP is a bridge too far.

Best of luck in perpetual poverty sport.

Click to expand...

This is fun watching this poor pup squirm, He's doing the Pumpkin man dance, Out lie your last lie that was called for being a lie. CHA CHA CHA!!!

Click to expand...

bave · Nov 24, 2019

jbander said:
Whats next, say again that I'm wrong ,Your up to about zero for 10This is fun watching this poor pup squirm, He's doing the Pumpkin man dance, Out lie your last lie that was called for being a lie. CHA CHA CHA!!!

Seriously, you can't even manage to use the quote function. Let alone english. How can we expect you to understanding business operations and accounting?

Like I said, enjoy your life of poverty. It's almost sad watching people think they understand things and blaming the world for holding them back when it's just their lack of ability.

jbander · Nov 24, 2019

bave said:
Seriously, you can't even manage to use the quote function. Let alone english. How can we expect you to understanding business operations and accounting?

Like I said, enjoy your life of poverty. It's almost sad watching people think they understand things and blaming the world for holding them back when it's just their lack of ability.

Bave I'm as successful as I've ever wanted to be , I came from a very poor background and other then in my youth, I've always have had money in my pocket. I have made over half my income, over my lifetime in the markets on multiple investments , Ive bought the only two houses I've owned in my lifetime from market investments , I built a working studio behind my house that me and my significant other have worked in for 30 years from another market high. My studio is a 1200 sq ft studio in the woods behind my house, it has been written up as the studio to have in two article in trade magazines . . for work I've only done what I've enjoyed doing, I've worked very hard at these things but have enjoyed my work about as much as anyone could ask for in their life. I'm a craftsman for one and I've coached and played volley ball at the highest level in this country and played doubles till I was 62 year old. My best doubles partner I had was my last one, He partnered with me for 4 years till I was 60 years of age and we separated when he went for his graduate degree in another state. He went on with a partner his age and won multiple state titles in the sand while he finished his degree. I love my life and country and I hate the threats that comes along with people like you. I dislike , I hate just one thing . That one thing is this countries enemy's. anyone who has sold us out for profit of power. I'm putting you in that can .I truly believe that is were you and people like you belong. So you go out and do your life, I'll do mine. You can't win though can you?

RetiredUSN · Nov 25, 2019

jbander said:
If it was paid for by the government, the insurance company or out of pocket , it has all been accounted for and all paid by Americans, that is the base for the pot, for there to be a increase in cost and that is what we are talking about , it will have to cost like I said over 54 trillion in the next decade. No plan that I've seen from a rational source has projected Medicare for all costing more then that. So if it cost 53 trillion this country's population will save 1 trillion dollars . I know this just tears you haters heart to ****. because it screws up a talking point that you want to insist is a disaster for this country and needing massive tax increases. But again as usual you people are just full of bull****.

No talking points here....... as you called them.

I don't hate....... The people on DP get enough of that from you everyday. :roll:

Rape the middle class again and see what happens to the democrats.

jbander · Nov 25, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
No talking points here....... as you called them.

I don't hate....... The people on DP get enough of that from you everyday. :roll:

Rape the middle class again and see what happens to the democrats.

Little hard to get around electing a hate candidate as your leader and supporting a hate candidate and say that you are just a lover and not a hater. It's a little hard to support a hate group they call a party and then claim no hatred. It's a little hard to be in a a old white fat man party that doe nothing other then hate and say you don't hate. Being a bigot, being a homophobic, being a Islamophobic, being a chauvinist pig and saying your not a hater, being a hater of the old the sick and the poor and claim not to be a hater, being a supporter of scum bag and not being a hater , or in fact anyone of these thing and you are just simply lying and I've read your hate post here, as has most we all know that you are just another hate party hater of just about everything that you hate party tells you to hate.

jaeger19 · Nov 25, 2019

jbander said:
"facts or any differing logic or opinion " What a fricken hoot.

Nope.. just reality. I posted the facts.. that Medicaid and Medicare are different... the private insurance and medicare are different... and how if we went to Medicare for all..it certainly could cause people that are poor on Medicaid, or poor and middle class with private insurance.. to have to pay more.. for worse coverage.

You fail to address any of that.

RetiredUSN · Nov 25, 2019

jbander said:
Little hard to get around electing a hate candidate as your leader and supporting a hate candidate and say that you are just a lover and not a hater. It's a little hard to support a hate group they call a party and then claim no hatred. It's a little hard to be in a a old white fat man party that doe nothing other then hate and say you don't hate. Being a bigot, being a homophobic, being a Islamophobic, being a chauvinist pig and saying your not a hater, being a hater of the old the sick and the poor and claim not to be a hater, being a supporter of scum bag and not being a hater , or in fact anyone of these thing and you are just simply lying and I've read your hate post here, as has most we all know that you are just another hate party hater of just about everything that you hate party tells you to hate.

The only hater in here that I see is you.

Every post of yours only exemplifies my point.

jbander · Nov 28, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
The only hater in here that I see is you.

Every post of yours only exemplifies my point.

Well I hate one group in my life and that are the traitors, biggest threat and biggest enemy of my country, Being a real patriot makes you that way
You haters hate just about everything. Now can you see just a little difference between us.

jbander · Nov 28, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
No talking points here....... as you called them.

I don't hate....... The people on DP get enough of that from you everyday. :roll:

Rape the middle class again and see what happens to the democrats.

You are one of the top hate mongers here ace.

RetiredUSN · Nov 28, 2019

jbander said:
You are one of the top hate mongers here ace.

LOL.....there is a huge difference between smart assing, and what you do.

You couldn't complete a paragraph without a meat cleaver in your hand.

jbander · Nov 28, 2019

RetiredUSN said:
LOL.....there is a huge difference between smart assing, and what you do.

You couldn't complete a paragraph without a meat cleaver in your hand.

said the Nazi to his crowd.

The right is telling you that your taxes will be doubled to pay for Medicare for all.

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