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How to argue for universal health care

Glitch said:
There is no such power. Congress has the power to tax for the PURPOSE of the general welfare, but the general welfare is not a power unto itself. Meaning Congress cannot enact laws based solely on the "general welfare." That would be unconstitutional as the Supreme Court already held in United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936):
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We have a federal doctrine and State laws regarding the concept of employment at will. The welfare clause is general and must give the general government some means to accomplish the end.
 
Glitch said:
There is no such power. Congress has the power to tax for the PURPOSE of the general welfare, but the general welfare is not a power unto itself. Meaning Congress cannot enact laws based solely on the "general welfare." That would be unconstitutional as the Supreme Court already held in United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936):
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Your interpretation makes the US Air Force unconstitutional.
 
Deuce said:
Your interpretation makes the US Air Force unconstitutional.
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actually Constitution made president Commander in Chief of military which means it authorized a military!!!!
 
James972 said:
actually Constitution made president Commander in Chief of military which means it authorized a military!!!!
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Article I, Section 8, Clause 12 of the US Constitution also gives Congress the power "To raise and support armies..." and if you recall the US Air Force began as the US Army Air Corps. Which is why they were made into a separate branch of the military in 1947.
 
Glitch said:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 12 of the US Constitution also gives Congress the power "To raise and support armies..." and if you recall the US Air Force began as the US Army Air Corps. Which is why they were made into a separate branch of the military in 1947.
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care to tell us what you r point is???
 
James972 said:
care to tell us what you r point is???
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Since you haven't read any of my posts in this thread, my point has always been that Congress is only allowed the powers specifically granted to them by the US Constitution, and no others. All powers not included in the US Constitution belong to either the States and/or the people, as per the Tenth Amendment. That includes healthcare, education, and all forms of social spending to name a few. Those are powers exclusively granted to the States by the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution.

I have already cited numerous Supreme Court cases that support this position. Which means that any form of "universal" healthcare coming out of Congress is automatically unconstitutional since they lack the constitutional authority.
 
Glitch said:
Since you haven't read any of my posts in this thread, my point has always been that Congress is only allowed the powers specifically granted to them by the US Constitution, and no others. All powers not included in the US Constitution belong to either the States and/or the people, as per the Tenth Amendment. That includes healthcare, education, and all forms of social spending to name a few. Those are powers exclusively granted to the States by the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution.

I have already cited numerous Supreme Court cases that support this position. Which means that any form of "universal" healthcare coming out of Congress is automatically unconstitutional since they lack the constitutional authority.
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Yes I do agree, enumerated powers and 10th amendment are designed to make liberalism illegal in America!!! In fact designed to prevent liberals from holding office by making them take a pledge to defend the Constitution which they hate.
 
James972 said:
Yes I do agree, enumerated powers and 10th amendment are designed to make liberalism illegal in America!!! In fact designed to prevent liberals from holding office by making them take a pledge to defend the Constitution which they hate.
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"Liberal" is a term co-opted and altered by the Democrats. Prior to the 1960s a "liberal" was someone who supported individual liberties (which the Democrats have never done). Democrats were being correctly accused of socialist and communist ideology during the 1950s so they adopted the term "liberal" as their propaganda.

It is more accurate to describe them as left-wing rather than liberal. "Liberal" and "progressive" are two things Democrats are definitely not, and never have been.

Leftist want unlimited power. Which is why they usurp the powers from the States and deliberately violate the US Constitution that limits their power. This illegal "Universal Healthcare" scam is just another attempt by the anti-American left to seize more power from the States. Only the States have the constitutional authority to impose a universal healthcare system for their State.
 
Glitch said:
"Liberal" is a term co-opted and altered by the Democrats. Prior to the 1960s a "liberal" was someone who supported individual liberties (which the Democrats have never done). Democrats were being correctly accused of socialist and communist ideology during the 1950s so they adopted the term "liberal" as their propaganda.

It is more accurate to describe them as left-wing rather than liberal. "Liberal" and "progressive" are two things Democrats are definitely not, and never have been.
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I don't like all this constant talk about denying liberals the use of the term liberals. The definition changed and now leftists and liberals are the same. Let's accept the obvious facts on the ground and move on.
 
Glitch said:
Only the States have the constitutional authority to impose a universal healthcare system for their State.
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1) sadly Obamacare passed Constitutional muster

2) more importantly to impose freedom and capitalism on health care they way the feds impose it on all other industries will require massive federal intervention.
 
James972 said:
I don't like all this constant talk about denying liberals the use of the term liberals. The definition changed and now leftists and liberals are the same. Let's accept the obvious facts on the ground and move on.
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They can call themselves whatever they like, but when them call themselves "liberal" or "progressive" they are deliberately lying and trying to fool you into believing something they aren't. I don't allow deliberate liars to alter the definition of words because it is convenient for them.
 
James972 said:
1) sadly Obamacare passed Constitutional muster
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No, it did not, as I have previously documented. The Supreme Court held (5-4) the "penalty" was actually a tax and Congress had the constitutional authority to levy taxes. In the same decision the Supreme Court held (7-2) that the MedicAid expansion in the Affordable Healthcare Act was unconstitutional.

At no time has the Supreme Court ever held the Affordable Healthcare Act as constitutional. Which is why 26 States filed a case (still pending) with the Supreme Court to overturn this unconstitutional law.

James972 said:
2) more importantly to impose freedom and capitalism on health care they way the feds impose it on all other industries will require massive federal intervention.
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It is more important to abolish this unconstitutional law and prevent leftists from usurping State powers.
 
Glitch said:
It is more important to abolish this unconstitutional law and prevent leftists from usurping State powers.
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They usurpted them long ago by taking over health care and many many other things not included in the enumerated powers. I agree, a tactical victory on Obamcare would be a nice step in the right direction.
 
Glitch said:
They can call themselves whatever they like, but when them call themselves "liberal" or "progressive" they are deliberately lying and trying to fool you into believing something they aren't. I don't allow deliberate liars to alter the definition of words because it is convenient for them.
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far more efficient to use your time being anti government rather than anti definition.Moreover, their definition is mostly legitimate since the majority seems to feel a person has more liberty after he collects, for example, welfare and food stamps. And, the people who pay for the welfare and food stamps have more liberty too since it makes them feel better.
 
James972 said:
far more efficient to use your time being anti government rather than anti definition.Moreover, their definition is mostly legitimate since the majority seems to feel a person has more liberty after he collects, for example, welfare and food stamps. And, the people who pay for the welfare and food stamps have more liberty too since it makes them feel better.
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Actually, they have far less liberty. Liberty, in general terms, is the ability to do as one pleases. If one is dependent upon government, then they cannot do as they please. The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 
Glitch said:
If one is dependent upon government, then they cannot do as they please.
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they feel they have more liberty than they would have being dependent on an education and a job.
 
James972 said:
they feel they have more liberty than they would have being dependent on an education and a job.
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If they "feel" they have more liberty by being a government parasite then they are truly delusional, but exactly the opposite is true.
 
Glitch said:
If they "feel" they have more liberty by being a government parasite then they are truly delusional, but exactly the opposite is true.
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if its true that people have less liberty while on welfare and more liberty while on a job tell us why.
 
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