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Thread: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    I asked if you are a veteran and if you use the VA system,
    My one anecdote would be weak evidence whether it was positive or not.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    In some cities the va hospital is the best hospital in that town
    I actually CAN think of a couple of very bad VA hospitals.
    But that's because my wife and I have personal firsthand experience with them, unlike some people who just "read stuff on the internet." We also have personal firsthand experience with the good ones.

    The Memphis VA has always been terrible and for some reason, no matter what anyone tries, they're just incorrigible. One star ratings for the last twenty-five years. And Phoenix is still swamped by four times their previous caseload just as they were when the big scandal first broke out.
    Until Phoenix is finally granted the expansion funds they so desperately need they will continue to have and keep their one star rating.

    Memphis? I dunno. My wife says it should just be torn down and the vets released to private sector care or allowed to use the closest DoD military hospital instead. Anthony J. Principi's recommendation to merge VA and DoD has a lot of merit.

    All that having been said, a lot of recent studies (at least four in recent memory) are saying that for the most part VA care is now equal to and sometimes better than the private sector. (as long as you're not at one of the handful of one star VA facilities, of course)

    I know West LA and Long Beach are both good, Long Beach VA is excellent, and so are the Dallas and Minneapolis VA's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Putin would make a better president than Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It IS NOT the job of the United States government to protect reporters overseas. It IS the job the United States government to preserve the freedom of the press here in the US.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    My one anecdote would be weak evidence whether it was positive or not.
    There are a ton of veterans here on DP, some able bodied and some disabled, many of whom use or have used the VA in recent times.
    Not all of them have positive experiences, but then again, not everyone who has used private sector care has either.
    But the point is, you are not a vet and you don't use the system, and when you throw the VA out there as your convenient whipping boy, to make a talking point about the British NHS, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

    In fact, despite the many issues with the British NHS, Brits STILL overwhelmingly demand that the British government continue to maintain it, and not switch it to a private sector system. Their big complaint is that Parliament is starving it of funds.

    In answer to your question about why private sector coexists with socialized healthcare in England, most of it is for elective stuff like cosmetic surgery, which is not covered by the British NHS. Also, if you're very wealthy and simply wish to skip to the front of the line, you can pay in cash for your own private doctor and clinic.
    But the same thing exists here in the USA. If you have the money, you'll never see the inside of a waiting room either.
    Same thing exists in Canada, too.

    By the way, the Concerned Veterans for America group exists for one reason only - to PRIVATIZE the VA.
    And veterans DO NOT WANT that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Putin would make a better president than Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It IS NOT the job of the United States government to protect reporters overseas. It IS the job the United States government to preserve the freedom of the press here in the US.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    In fact, despite the many issues with the British NHS, Brits STILL overwhelmingly demand that the British government continue to maintain it, and not switch it to a private sector system.
    So what. Many Russians still support Stalin. Do you consider that to be strong evidence that Stalin was, on net, beneficial to the country?

    Their big complaint is that Parliament is starving it of funds.
    That's an easy problem to solve - just raise taxes, and tell them the money is for the NHS. They should be happy for the tax increase, because their taxes will be buying what they supposedly want.

    Also, if you're very wealthy and simply wish to skip to the front of the line, you can pay in cash for your own private doctor and clinic.
    So it's a two-tier system. Doesn't sound very egalitarian.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    So what. Many Russians still support Stalin. Do you consider that to be strong evidence that Stalin was, on net, beneficial to the country?
    So you felt compelled to move the goalposts. We were talking about a healthcare system, not a person.
    I consider British poll figures about their opinions on their healthcare to be strong evidence that the NHS is beneficial.


    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    That's an easy problem to solve - just raise taxes, and tell them the money is for the NHS. They should be happy for the tax increase, because their taxes will be buying what they supposedly want.
    The funding is there. It is currently being sequestered or held up in numerous council squabbles.
    And by the way, be sure and let me know when you find evidence that they would pay LESS in insurance premiums than they do in taxes.
    I'll wait right here.


    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    So it's a two-tier system. Doesn't sound very egalitarian.
    For the wealthiest among us, concerns about egalitarianism have never applied.
    Why is that my concern? My concern is whether or not the majority of Americans can afford decent healthcare.

    The fact remains that you don't know what you're talking about with regard to the VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Putin would make a better president than Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It IS NOT the job of the United States government to protect reporters overseas. It IS the job the United States government to preserve the freedom of the press here in the US.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    So what. Many Russians still support Stalin.
    Have you taken a moment to consider WHY so many Russians have decided that maybe Stalin wasn't so bad?
    The person in charge at the moment must be pretty awful if they're waxing poetic about Uncle Joe.
    I've had moments where I would gladly welcome Pennywise the Clown instead of who we have now, even if Pennywise was a Republican.

    By the way, they don't STILL support him, rather....support for him is increasing in the face of Putin's decline.

    free-hugs-clown.jpg

    The rise in Stalin’s standing follows Kremlin efforts to play down his tyranny in school history books and recast him as a modernizer who transformed the Soviet Union into a superpower through rapid industrialization and victory in World War II. It comes amid deepening disenchantment among Russians with Putin, the longest-serving Kremlin ruler since Stalin, following the unpopular increase in the pension age last year. There’s also growing hardship after five straight years of declining consumer incomes.
    Last edited by Checkerboard Strangler; 08-16-19 at 02:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Putin would make a better president than Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It IS NOT the job of the United States government to protect reporters overseas. It IS the job the United States government to preserve the freedom of the press here in the US.

  7. #27
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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    So you felt compelled to move the goalposts. We were talking about a healthcare system, not a person.
    I consider British poll figures about their opinions on their healthcare to be strong evidence that the NHS is beneficial.
    Why? What the brits think..and what the US citizen thinks could be and usually is.. tremendously different.

    Do you think they would change their government system for ours? If not. should we then change our government system for theirs.. because they like their system?

    think about it.

    For the wealthiest among us, concerns about egalitarianism have never applied.
    Why is that my concern? My concern is whether or not the majority of Americans can afford decent healthcare.
    Right now 87% of americans can afford decent healthcare. Actually probably more.. since a percentage of those that aren't insured in the US are not insured because they choose not to be. (probably around 3-5% best guess).

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Why? What the brits think..and what the US citizen thinks could be and usually is.. tremendously different.

    Do you think they would change their government system for ours? If not. should we then change our government system for theirs.. because they like their system?

    think about it.
    I am not suggesting a copy/paste of the British system here in the United States. That wasn't the point of the thread.
    The thread is about life in a nation that has a UHC system, but there is no reason to suggest that implies some notion that the UK NHS is a good fit for us.

    The phrase "change our government system" (I guess you meant 'swap') is vague.
    When public programs of any kind are enacted, some aspects of life changes but that is the case when private sector does certain things as well. When the private sector inflates the price of an essential lifesaving medication to stratospheric levels, it can cause a drastic change in the lives of millions, millions who by the way did not even get a chance to VOTE on that private sector change, because there is no "vote" if you can't live without that medication.


    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Right now 87% of americans can afford decent healthcare. Actually probably more.. since a percentage of those that aren't insured in the US are not insured because they choose not to be. (probably around 3-5% best guess).
    That doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, guessing that 87 percent can afford their healthcare is not only suspect, the notion that ten or eleven percent are just scoffs who just go without because they don't think they need it is also suspect.
    But I don't even trust your figure of 87 percent to begin with.

    Guess How Many Americans Don't Have Health Insurance

    Even the insured often can't afford their medical bills


    87M Adults Were Uninsured or Underinsured in 2018, Survey Says

    Americans Borrowed $88 Billion to Pay for Health Care Last Year, Survey Finds

    Worse yet:


    Cancer patients are being denied drugs, even with doctor prescriptions and good insurance


    But it's not all bad news because prior to Obamacare, TWENTY PERCENT could not access healthcare, according to a 2007 report: Health, United States, 2007, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    So the REASON WHY more people can get health insurance today IS BECAUSE of something you Republicans decried as a "government takeover of healthcare", something you tried to repeal a record 52 times during Obama's tenure and tried again several times in the last three years.

    And you don't have any kind of a plan to replace it once it does finally collapse due to Republican attacks.
    But you go ahead and keep painting those pretty pictures.

    Here's the picture I keep seeing when I think of "Trumpers and healthcare" :

    JesusPreExistingCondition.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Putin would make a better president than Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It IS NOT the job of the United States government to protect reporters overseas. It IS the job the United States government to preserve the freedom of the press here in the US.

  9. #29
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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post

    So it's a two-tier system. Doesn't sound very egalitarian.
    Itís not unlike the public school system here in the US. It works OK. Sure there are problems, but overall itís much better to have it than not.

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    Re: Universal Health Care: from someone who lived under both ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    It’s not unlike the public school system here in the US.

    Yup, and in both cases the capitalist, private version is superior to the socialist version.

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