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US healthcare is a bad joke

Just watched this:



$500 / stitch is insane, :lol: Seriously, your system is laughable :lol:

and one quite new video about our healthcare system here in Finland:



If you'd like to know what we dealt with prior to the Affordable Care Act (also known as "Obamacare") rent the Michael Moore documentary "Sicko".
 
Just watched this:



$500 / stitch is insane, :lol: Seriously, your system is laughable :lol:

and one quite new video about our healthcare system here in Finland:



Hey I wouldn’t mind a little Q&A with those Finnish nurses!;)
 
I THINK what he is saying, is that due to those countries spending less on military, they can afford to spend more on healthcare. Which reduces INDIVIDUAL costs.

More over, they can reduce the cost of healthcare by reducing the overhead, by having free, or dramatically cheaper education, and reduced R and D, since the US is responsible for most innovations.

Not saying our system is perfect, or even ideal. Its FUBAR. But we will not be able to imitate their systems.

Who said that we are supposed to COPY/PASTE their systems?
I don't recall anyone saying, "Hey it's real simple, just carbon copy the UK NHS, bam cake done."

In fact, almost everyone is acknowledging that we have to hammer out a system which is somewhat unique, custom tailored to the realities here in the USA. And pretty much everyone is also acknowledging that it will remain a two tiered system, something of a hybrid of public/private sector.

You know, the most enduring mark of a rational thinker is the fact that they acknowledge when an opposing argument has run out of salient points.
The argument for full profit based health insurance in the USA has run out of salient points in its defense and it ran out of room a while ago.
CIGNA was known for its vigorous defense of rescission, preexisting condition limits and treatment caps prior to Obamacare.
Unfortunately for them, one of their Vice Presidents was Wendell Potter, who retired from his position in 2008 after a crisis of conscience:

In July 2007 he saw a touring free clinic run by Remote Area Medical in rural Virginia:

What he saw appalled him. Hundreds of desperate people, most without any medical insurance, descended on the clinic from out of the hills. People queued in long lines to have the most basic medical procedures carried out free of charge. Some had driven more than 200 miles from Georgia. Many were treated in the open air. Potter took pictures of patients lying on trolleys on rain-soaked pavements.

Potter has frequently volunteered the fact that American health insurance models are strictly based on the many ways to DENY CARE to patients that need it the most, in the name of boosting profits.

I can't speak for anybody else but for me, the argument in favor of profit based health insurance ran out of steam after hearing that profits are derived from DENIAL of care. Our profit based health insurance system is simply unsustainable for all except majority shareholders and CEO's.
There is no way to argue that health insurance company profits do anything to enhance the quality or delivery of actual health care.

And as for innovation, the lion's share of ALL major medical innovation in the last five years has originated from taxpayer funded work.

Sorry but making the excuse that we are paying to protect these other countries doesn't work well either, because even given that argument, the US military is perhaps the most obscenely wasteful program on this or any other planet. The Pentagon openly admits that it cannot account for trillions of dollars in misplaced or lost funds.
 
Hey I wouldn’t mind a little Q&A with those Finnish nurses!;)

Just leave your questions / comments, I guess more like that is coming if people are interested. Youtube is nice platform to tell different ways, but remember when it's working for some people it's not working for everyone (check out Very Finnish Problems / youtuber)

Healthcare isn't healthcare if it's unreachable (can't afford) - it's something else. Health business? That's why I think it's laughable (if you think it as healthcare).
 
I don't understand your question or why you chose to ignore all of my post. ALL EXPENSES CONSIDERED Americans pay over double per capita what other nations pay to GET LESS. If you want to challenge that objective fact, use your words and make an argument instead of these lazy one liners.

Yeah.. actually we don't get less.. we get more.. which is why it costs more. We get more access... and more timeliness of care.. etc.

Plus we pay more because 1. Our providers and hospital staff.. get paid more.. which is important when you consider that healthcare is the leading producer of jobs in this country.

And of course we pay more because other countries cost shift their healthcare costs to other avenues like education (they pay for their physicians education with public education.. while we pay for their education through our healthcare costs. The same for things like early retirements etc.)
 
I wouldn't say its laughable, it is an outrage. Like with most things in this country, the people are being robbed by the rich and not only are we alllowing it, half the country cheers on this theft

You are a very delusional person. The examples of "the rich" literally robbing people (i.e. committing crimes to enrich themselves) are extremely rare. If you don't want to be regarded as a delusional person, you will need to acknowledge this basic reality.
 
Healthcare isn't healthcare if it's unreachable (can't afford) - it's something else. Health business? That's why I think it's laughable (if you think it as healthcare).

Don't make up silly notions out of thin air. Health care is health care regardless of its cost.
 
You are a very delusional person. The examples of "the rich" literally robbing people (i.e. committing crimes to enrich themselves) are extremely rare. If you don't want to be regarded as a delusional person, you will need to acknowledge this basic reality.

No crime necessary if you own those who write the laws

The US Tax Code would be a great example
 
Don't make up silly notions out of thin air. Health care is health care regardless of its cost.

My point is that healthcare is silly if you can't get it. More like going window shopping, you're staying on street watching shiny stuff without chance to buy it. Proper healthcare is accessible to everyone, because it's not luxury - we all need it when we get sick or something else significant happens to our body.
 
Yeah.. actually we don't get less.. we get more.. which is why it costs more. We get more access... and more timeliness of care.. etc.

Plus we pay more because 1. Our providers and hospital staff.. get paid more.. which is important when you consider that healthcare is the leading producer of jobs in this country.

And of course we pay more because other countries cost shift their healthcare costs to other avenues like education (they pay for their physicians education with public education.. while we pay for their education through our healthcare costs. The same for things like early retirements etc.)

Yes we get much less. Tens of millions of Americans can't see a doctor at all and tens of millions more are saddled with immense medical debt and have to decide whether to get treatment and go into debt or not. We have the most rationed Healthcare in the world with very poor access and we are ranked very low internationally in most metrics, especially healthcare outcomes, life expectancy and infant mortality rate. These are facts, you don't have to like them.

And you just made a great argument for tuition free college, great idea, I agree.
 
Yes we get much less. Tens of millions of Americans can't see a doctor at all and tens of millions more are saddled with immense medical debt and have to decide whether to get treatment and go into debt or not. We have the most rationed Healthcare in the world with very poor access and we are ranked very low internationally in most metrics, especially healthcare outcomes, life expectancy and infant mortality rate. These are facts, you don't have to like them.

And you just made a great argument for tuition free college, great idea, I agree.

Nah... because some 90% of americans can see the doctor because they insurance. And that insurance generally covers far more than most European or Canadian government single payer.. and it gives them more choice.. more access.. more timeliness of care.. etc.

No.. we have some of the least rationed healthcare in the world.. when you consider the 90% of americans that have health insurance.

Now.. if you include the 10% of americans that don't have health insurance.. sure. BUT.. your solutions would lower the quality for the 90%. Most if not all americans that have health insurance went to say a Canadian system.. or a European single payer..would find that they would be unhappy with it.


Listen... we have been over this.. I have debunked you on everything from medical debt.. to life expectancy and infant mortality rate... with actual facts. WHY there are such things..


You are the one that doesn't the actual facts.... that's why you consistently spout talking points.. as if they really mean something.


And as far as tuition free college.. I am not sure that I made an argument for it. As I pointed out.. its a cost either way.
 
Nah... because some 90% of americans can see the doctor because they insurance. And that insurance generally covers far more than most European or Canadian government single payer.. and it gives them more choice.. more access.. more timeliness of care.. etc.

No.. we have some of the least rationed healthcare in the world.. when you consider the 90% of americans that have health insurance.

Now.. if you include the 10% of americans that don't have health insurance.. sure. BUT.. your solutions would lower the quality for the 90%. Most if not all americans that have health insurance went to say a Canadian system.. or a European single payer..would find that they would be unhappy with it.


Listen... we have been over this.. I have debunked you on everything from medical debt.. to life expectancy and infant mortality rate... with actual facts. WHY there are such things..


You are the one that doesn't the actual facts.... that's why you consistently spout talking points.. as if they really mean something.


And as far as tuition free college.. I am not sure that I made an argument for it. As I pointed out.. its a cost either way.

Opinions certainly vary

Yours.is a.very warped.perception
 
Nah... because some 90% of americans can see the doctor because they insurance. And that insurance generally covers far more than most European or Canadian government single payer.. and it gives them more choice.. more access.. more timeliness of care.. etc.

No.. we have some of the least rationed healthcare in the world.. when you consider the 90% of americans that have health insurance.

Now.. if you include the 10% of americans that don't have health insurance.. sure. BUT.. your solutions would lower the quality for the 90%. Most if not all americans that have health insurance went to say a Canadian system.. or a European single payer..would find that they would be unhappy with it.


Listen... we have been over this.. I have debunked you on everything from medical debt.. to life expectancy and infant mortality rate... with actual facts. WHY there are such things..


You are the one that doesn't the actual facts.... that's why you consistently spout talking points.. as if they really mean something.


And as far as tuition free college.. I am not sure that I made an argument for it. As I pointed out.. its a cost either way.

90% of Americans having health insurance is incorrect and many of those that do have astronomically high deductibles. My engineer brother has a 5,000 dollar deductible which means they pay virtually everything out of pocket and have to decide if going to a doctor over little things is worth it.

Your health insurer is the one who decides if you get a procedure or not, not your doctor, and they decide that on profitability. Prior to the ACA there were tens of millions of Americans who couldn't get insurance anywhere because of arbitrary pre existing conditions.

You don't get to ignore all the Americans who have no insurance or terrible and expensive plans. You're trying to take the average of only the people with good plans and you're vastly overestimating how many Americans are happy with their Healthcare, the vast majority aren't.

You have not even attempted to debunk anything I've said about America's poorly ranked quality of care, high infant mortality rate, extremely low access to care, low life expectancy, high rationing based on wealth of the patient, or any other metric other nations crush us in.

You're defending a system most Americans hate and can't afford where tens of millions can't see a doctor at all and tens of millions more have such high deductibles they can't see the doctor when they need it. If you had a European style healthcare system you'd love it just like everyone in Europe does. Absolutely nobody in the first world outside the US wishes they had a system like America's. Keep defending the indefensible.
 
You're defending a system most Americans hate and can't afford where tens of millions can't see a doctor at all and tens of millions more have such high deductibles they can't see the doctor when they need it. If you had a European style healthcare system you'd love it just like everyone in Europe does. Absolutely nobody in the first world outside the US wishes they had a system like America's. Keep defending the indefensible.

About this:



So, how long people are willing to defend current healthcare system? I hope people wake up and fix this, it's not only bad, it's also horrific for poor people (and there's lot of them in US).
 
90% of Americans having health insurance is incorrect and many of those that do have astronomically high deductibles. My engineer brother has a 5,000 dollar deductible which means they pay virtually everything out of pocket and have to decide if going to a doctor over little things is worth it.

e.

Actually in 2016 it was something like 10.9 percent of americans were without health insurance.. and I think after trump its gone up to about 13% as people can now opt out of insurance without a penalty.

And I guess it depends on whats an "astronomically high deductible". Obamacare limits deductibles.. I think the highest deductible is somewhere near 7000 and most are much lower than that. And if you have medicare? A lot less and if you have Medicaid.. generally no deducible.

And probably your engineers plans actually have wellness visits and doctors visits that are covered despite the deductible. Especially if he has a market place insurance. Which even though they have deductibles.. also pay for.. with no expense.. all sorts of preventative health services.

Your health insurer is the one who decides if you get a procedure or not, not your doctor, and they decide that on profitability

The same with government insurances.. especially the VA and Medicaid.

I don't think you can find a country even the UK that does not have authorizations, and reviews as part of preventing overutilization.

You don't get to ignore all the Americans who have no insurance or terrible and expensive plans.

I am not.. I am the one stating that its about 10% of the population... okay.. lets go 13% of the population. YOU SIR.. however want to ignore the REST of the population that has insurance that for the most part.. is better than what most other countries government single payer is like.

The irony here is that you have great insurance because your company happens to pay for you to have great insurance.

You're trying to take the average of only the people with good plans and you're vastly overestimating how many Americans are happy with their Healthcare, the vast majority aren't.

Actually.. you sir are vastly overestimating the number of americans that are unhappy enough with their healthcare.. to want to switch to a government single payer system. In fact.. even the ones that want to switch here.. would likely change their tune once they found out what the other countries actually have and what it means for them.

You have not even attempted to debunk anything I've said about America's poorly ranked quality of care,

Sure I have..you among lots of others...when it comes to real quality of care.. things like effectiveness of care, timeliness of care.. getting the right diagnosis.. etc.. American healthcare scores very high. In fact..in all likelihood..if we had everyone covered.. we would beat every country when it comes to this.

Most of our "poorly ranked healthcare"..is not really because of a quality of care issue.. its because of things like "equity of care".. which pulls us down because we don't have everyone insured.

We have been over this before.

Now..high infant mortality rate, life expectancy? That largely does not have to do with our healthcare system. It has to do with our demographics and our culture. Our obesity rates are high, our lifestyles are sedentary. We tend to take less vacations than most cultures, we work longer hours and retire later than most first world cultures. Heck..we drive more than most European countries and that tends to mean more risk of injury and death. Not to mention asthma and respiratory disease from smog.
We have more work related stress. We delay having children until older (raising the risk of infant mortality). We have higher risk pregnancies (raising the infant mortality)...and so on.

I have already brought out these facts to you and to others.

If you had a European style healthcare system you'd love it just like everyone in Europe does.

No..I would not..nor would most americans… heck.. even the poorest in American who have Medicaid would not like the European healthcare system,

You have awesome insurance because your employer pays for you. I think we have already established that. I have patients in the US that have employer based healthcare insurance that's better than yours and they make just over minimum wage. . They would not trade their insurance for any European public plans.
 
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