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Thread: US healthcare is a bad joke

  1. #21
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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    There's a limit to how useful these attempts at international comparison are.

    At first glance, it's impressive how little the U.K. spends on its NHS. On the other hand, the NHS is reaching a crisis point due to chronic underfunding. You could always spend less if you decided to prioritize savings over services, but there's a very strong bias against that in the United States.
    Well for most.of.America we.are.reaching a crisis point due to spiraling cost. Insurance premiums without the employer paying them are just out of reach.

    Suprises me that they say only 14% of Adult Americans don't have health insurance. I am not sure where that number.comes from but i bet the real number is higher.

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by rickc View Post
    Well for most.of.America we.are.reaching a crisis point due to spiraling cost. Insurance premiums without the employer paying them are just out of reach.
    Any idea when it's unbearable? (criterion for that are like...?)

    If people already know it's getting more expensive and income is most likely (for so many) low, so you can't pay as much as it's needed for proper healthcare... how long people are willing to continue and going along this path?

    Take the streets, make some noise and shake things as long as needed.
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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post
    Just watched this:



    $500 / stitch is insane, Seriously, your system is laughable

    and one quite new video about our healthcare system here in Finland:


    1. Finland is Finland.

    2. The United States is the United States.

    3. The thread title calls American health care a "bad joke."

    4. Finland is a small country with a small population that is culturally homogeneous.

    5. The United States is a huge country with a large population that is NOT culturally homogeneous.

    6. For the people who have good insurance, American healthcare is not a "bad joke." It is probably as good or better than that in any other country.

    7. For people who do not have good insurance, American healthcare is not so good.


    8. Because the majority of our "leaders" in Congress are petty and selfish and incompetent, there is no way to get good healthcare for everyone in this country.

    9. So the costs will continue to mount, many people will continue to suffer because of mediocre healthcare, and some people (insurance companies, etc.) will continue to make a lot of money.

    10. Nothing will change until we have adults in the White House and the Congress. Not the circus clowns that currently control this country.
    Last edited by TheParser; 07-28-19 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    1. Finland is Finland.

    2. The United States is the United States.

    3. The thread title calls American health care a "bad joke."

    4. Finland is a small country with a small population that is culturally homogeneous.

    5. The United States is a huge country with a large population that is NOT culturally homogeneous.

    6. For the people who have good insurance, American healthcare is not a "bad joke." It is probably as good or better than that in any other country.

    7. For people who do not have good insurance, American healthcare is not so good.


    8. Because the majority of our "leaders" in Congress are petty and selfish and incompetent, there is no way to get good healthcare for everyone in this country.

    9. So the costs will continue to mount, many people will continue to suffer because of mediocre healthcare, and some people (insurance companies, etc.) will continue to make a lot of money.

    10. Nothing will change until we have adults in the White House and the Congress. Not the circus clowns that currently control this country.
    Seems like you and the OP and most others in this thread need to take care to not conflate health care with health insurance.

    Care quality is care quality. Care cost is care cost. Population health is population health. Expensive care doesn't mean its quality is bad. Poor population health (relative to certain others) also does not necessarily mean quality is bad.

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    I wouldn't say its laughable, it is an outrage. Like with most things in this country, the people are being robbed by the rich and not only are we alllowing it, half the country cheers on this theft

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post
    Just watched this:



    $500 / stitch is insane, Seriously, your system is laughable

    and one quite new video about our healthcare system here in Finland:

    If you'd like to know what we dealt with prior to the Affordable Care Act (also known as "Obamacare") rent the Michael Moore documentary "Sicko".
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    “So it’s a very, semi-complicated — not too complicated if you’re smart — but it’s a semi-complicated problem. I think it is a problem that we have very nicely under control.”

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post
    Just watched this:



    $500 / stitch is insane, Seriously, your system is laughable

    and one quite new video about our healthcare system here in Finland:

    Hey I wouldn’t mind a little Q&A with those Finnish nurses!

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I THINK what he is saying, is that due to those countries spending less on military, they can afford to spend more on healthcare. Which reduces INDIVIDUAL costs.

    More over, they can reduce the cost of healthcare by reducing the overhead, by having free, or dramatically cheaper education, and reduced R and D, since the US is responsible for most innovations.

    Not saying our system is perfect, or even ideal. Its FUBAR. But we will not be able to imitate their systems.
    Who said that we are supposed to COPY/PASTE their systems?
    I don't recall anyone saying, "Hey it's real simple, just carbon copy the UK NHS, bam cake done."

    In fact, almost everyone is acknowledging that we have to hammer out a system which is somewhat unique, custom tailored to the realities here in the USA. And pretty much everyone is also acknowledging that it will remain a two tiered system, something of a hybrid of public/private sector.

    You know, the most enduring mark of a rational thinker is the fact that they acknowledge when an opposing argument has run out of salient points.
    The argument for full profit based health insurance in the USA has run out of salient points in its defense and it ran out of room a while ago.
    CIGNA was known for its vigorous defense of rescission, preexisting condition limits and treatment caps prior to Obamacare.
    Unfortunately for them, one of their Vice Presidents was Wendell Potter, who retired from his position in 2008 after a crisis of conscience:

    In July 2007 he saw a touring free clinic run by Remote Area Medical in rural Virginia:

    What he saw appalled him. Hundreds of desperate people, most without any medical insurance, descended on the clinic from out of the hills. People queued in long lines to have the most basic medical procedures carried out free of charge. Some had driven more than 200 miles from Georgia. Many were treated in the open air. Potter took pictures of patients lying on trolleys on rain-soaked pavements.
    Potter has frequently volunteered the fact that American health insurance models are strictly based on the many ways to DENY CARE to patients that need it the most, in the name of boosting profits.

    I can't speak for anybody else but for me, the argument in favor of profit based health insurance ran out of steam after hearing that profits are derived from DENIAL of care. Our profit based health insurance system is simply unsustainable for all except majority shareholders and CEO's.
    There is no way to argue that health insurance company profits do anything to enhance the quality or delivery of actual health care.

    And as for innovation, the lion's share of ALL major medical innovation in the last five years has originated from taxpayer funded work.

    Sorry but making the excuse that we are paying to protect these other countries doesn't work well either, because even given that argument, the US military is perhaps the most obscenely wasteful program on this or any other planet. The Pentagon openly admits that it cannot account for trillions of dollars in misplaced or lost funds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    “So it’s a very, semi-complicated — not too complicated if you’re smart — but it’s a semi-complicated problem. I think it is a problem that we have very nicely under control.”

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    Hey I wouldn’t mind a little Q&A with those Finnish nurses!
    Just leave your questions / comments, I guess more like that is coming if people are interested. Youtube is nice platform to tell different ways, but remember when it's working for some people it's not working for everyone (check out Very Finnish Problems / youtuber)

    Healthcare isn't healthcare if it's unreachable (can't afford) - it's something else. Health business? That's why I think it's laughable (if you think it as healthcare).
    Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

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    Re: US healthcare is a bad joke

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I don't understand your question or why you chose to ignore all of my post. ALL EXPENSES CONSIDERED Americans pay over double per capita what other nations pay to GET LESS. If you want to challenge that objective fact, use your words and make an argument instead of these lazy one liners.
    Yeah.. actually we don't get less.. we get more.. which is why it costs more. We get more access... and more timeliness of care.. etc.

    Plus we pay more because 1. Our providers and hospital staff.. get paid more.. which is important when you consider that healthcare is the leading producer of jobs in this country.

    And of course we pay more because other countries cost shift their healthcare costs to other avenues like education (they pay for their physicians education with public education.. while we pay for their education through our healthcare costs. The same for things like early retirements etc.)
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
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