Obamacare is soon dead? What next?

Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)

FinnFox said:

Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)

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Aloha cousin, how is your socialist health care?

Is it good, or is it like our VA (Veterans Administration)?

If you can't afford health care, you're supposed to show up at the ER (emergency room) where they must treat you.

Free, as long as you don't mind getting bills in the mail.

I thought Democrats screwed up Obama care by cutting in big profits for drug companies but then they said it was only a step toward single payer, so I am disappointed and uncertain.

FinnFox said:

Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)

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Yes exactly. That people are born into this world with the idea the world owes them a living, healthcare and a safe place to live is effing jsut crazy talk, but worse it’s an indicator of a sick deceased immature mindset...grow up.

Exquisitor said:

Aloha cousin, how is your socialist health care?

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Mostly fine, because it's not for profit system - of course we have private healthcare too, for example going for dentist cost you 50-60€ / visit and it's twice that much if you're going to private doctor. Having baby here is around 32€ ($34,33) / day. You also have to pay 25€ ($26,82) if you need Ambulance ride (it's more in US, I guess?). In my town, I have to pay 41,20€ / year (calendar) as heath center fee. Taxes are high here.

Is it good, or is it like our VA (Veterans Administration)?

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It's good. Here is some videos/podcasts about our system, how Americans see it:

If you can't afford health care, you're supposed to show up at the ER (emergency room) where they must treat you.

Click to expand...

Nice, so it's not death by being poor situation.

I thought Democrats screwed up Obama care by cutting in big profits for drug companies but then they said it was only a step toward single payer, so I am disappointed and uncertain.

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Seems like system is somewhat rigged (?), need to be fixed.

Ending ACA makes the best of a bad situation. It's an improvement but we were still better in 2008.

Jay59 said:

Ending ACA makes the best of a bad situation. It's an improvement but we were still better in 2008.

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Ending ACA is equally relatively good for everyone?

FinnFox said:

Mostly fine, because it's not for profit system - of course we have private healthcare too, for example going for dentist cost you 50-60€ / visit and it's twice that much if you're going to private doctor. Having baby here is around 32€ ($34,33) / day. You also have to pay 25€ ($26,82) if you need Ambulance ride (it's more in US, I guess?). In my town, I have to pay 41,20€ / year (calendar) as heath center fee. Taxes are high here.



It's good. Here is some videos/podcasts about our system, how Americans see it:







Nice, so it's not death by being poor situation.



Seems like system is somewhat rigged (?), need to be fixed.

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So you enjoy being kept, is that what I’m hearing. Yeah see that doesn’t work for me or most Americans. This Country was built on hard working people who asked what can they do for thier country, not the other way around.

Thingfish said:

So you enjoy being kept, is that what I’m hearing. Yeah see that doesn’t work for me or most Americans. This Country was built on hard working people who asked what can they do for thier country, not the other way around.

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So current system is better for you guys. Bernie and some others still trying to change it, well.. if it's working just fine, there's nothing to fix. I can imagine how backwards our system is compered to yours, but well.. it's also working as it is.

FinnFox said:

So current system is better for you guys. Bernie and some others still trying to change it, well.. if it's working just fine, there's nothing to fix. I can imagine how backwards our system is compered to yours, but well.. it's also working as it is.

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it works if you work it. If ya lay-a-bout with your hand out, then no it prolly dosent work to well for you.

FinnFox said:

Mostly fine, because it's not for profit system - of course we have private healthcare too, for example going for dentist cost you 50-60€ / visit and it's twice that much if you're going to private doctor. Having baby here is around 32€ ($34,33) / day. You also have to pay 25€ ($26,82) if you need Ambulance ride (it's more in US, I guess?). In my town, I have to pay 41,20€ / year (calendar) as heath center fee. Taxes are high here.

It's good. Here is some videos/podcasts about our system, how Americans see it:

Nice, so it's not death by being poor situation.

Seems like system is somewhat rigged (?), need to be fixed.

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You pay to have babies? Here you get a tax deduction. It's growth madder than a rats nest and we can't take on refugees from the South after abandoning everything the last President did and no sign of change in the weather, all the alternatives are deadlocked.

I don't care what's rigged, I care that my Government doesn't pay its bills and is way in debt.

I care that Republicans cut taxes mostly for the rich and handed over a world-wide economic crisis and then stalled the recovery handing us Trump who only cut taxes for the rich again, when the Democrats would only take away my guns dooming us worse.

FinnFox said:

Ending ACA is equally relatively good for everyone?

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If you take everyone to mean the whole nation, yes. It is never true that each individual is equal, in anything much less this.

Exquisitor said:

You pay to have babies? Here you get a tax deduction. It's growth madder than a rats nest and we can't take on refugees from the South after abandoning everything the last President did and no sign of change in the weather, all the alternatives are deadlocked.

I don't care what's rigged, I care that my Government doesn't pay its bills and is way in debt.

I care that Republicans cut taxes mostly for the rich and handed over a world-wide economic crisis and then stalled the recovery handing us Trump who only cut taxes for the rich again, when the Democrats would only take away my guns dooming us worse.

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Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America?

rickc said:

Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America?

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A woman is virtually guaranteed to not die.

Exquisitor said:

Aloha cousin, how is your socialist health care?

Is it good, or is it like our VA (Veterans Administration)?

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What do you know about the VA and their health care?

Exquisitor said:

If you can't afford health care, you're supposed to show up at the ER (emergency room) where they must treat you.

Free, as long as you don't mind getting bills in the mail.

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Emergency Room care is five times the cost of ordinary medical care. The ER is only required to do an initial assessment and exam, and then treat you until you are STABILIZED. If you have cancer, you will not receive cancer treatment at an ER, if you have heart disease, you won't get treatment at an ER, you will be stabilized and released.

The ruling is known as EMTALA, signed in 1986 by President Reagan.

The cost of emergency care required by EMTALA is not directly covered by the federal government, so it has been characterized as an unfunded mandate. Uncompensated care represents 6% of total hospital costs.**
Basically, it sweeps the costs under the rug and your higher hospital bills and insurance premiums make up the difference.

**Extremely conservative estimate from a 2011 American Hospital Association study commissioned by the health insurance lobby.
Other studies tell a different story.

In the 1990s, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Boston, Massachusetts, and Tampa, Florida, all experienced restructuring or mergers of their major safety-net hospitals amid fiscal pressures. In each case, local uncompensated care cost growth exceeded public funding. The situation in Milwaukee was particularly stark: The percentage of countywide uncompensated care delivered at the safety-net hospital post-merger declined from 45 percent to 19 percent, while the share delivered at the next two largest area hospitals increased from 19 percent to 40 percent.

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It is extremely foolish to shell out 5X the cost of ordinary medical care to cover uninsured persons who show up at an Emergency Room.



And it's NOT FREE.
It's not free to the end user, who suffers drastic hits to their credit rating, collections actions and bankruptcies.
And it is not free to everyone else who might experience absurdly long ER wait times, due to record overcrowding of facilities which are stretched way beyond their capacity.

FinnFox said:

Ending ACA is equally relatively good for everyone?

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Only if you're talking to affluent people who have never been uninsured and have faced a serious illness or injury, or a set of profound genetic issues or birth defects.

Prior to the ACA, insurance companies had pretty much free reign to kick you off your policy for almost any reason they wanted.

Wendell Potter, former CIGNA Healthcare Vice President
Mr. Potter is likely to tell you a much different story.

ACA is a flawed piece of legislation which attempted to rectify the abuses of the health insurance industry.
It succeeded in making healthcare more accessible for many millions of Americans but it never offered a public option, because the public option was killed off by Congress.

All in all, the Affordable Care Act is a mixed bag. But it is the reason my son is still alive.

Exquisitor said:

Aloha cousin, how is your socialist health care?

Is it good, or is it like our VA (Veterans Administration)?

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Would you please answer my question?

What personal experience do you have with healthcare from the VA?

Are you a disabled veteran? Are you a veteran? Is your spouse a veteran or disabled veteran?
Are any of your family members veterans or disabled veterans?
Have any of you used the VA system in the last five years? Ten years?

Checkerboard Strangler said:

What do you know about the VA and their health care?

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I know how to characterize it.

It was the buzz a few years ago, have they improved?

How has Trump done there?

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Emergency Room care is five times the cost of ordinary medical care. The ER is only required to do an initial assessment and exam, and then treat you until you are STABILIZED. If you have cancer, you will not receive cancer treatment at an ER, if you have heart disease, you won't get treatment at an ER, you will be stabilized and released.

The ruling is known as EMTALA, signed in 1986 by President Reagan.

The cost of emergency care required by EMTALA is not directly covered by the federal government, so it has been characterized as an unfunded mandate. Uncompensated care represents 6% of total hospital costs.**
Basically, it sweeps the costs under the rug and your higher hospital bills and insurance premiums make up the difference.

**Extremely conservative estimate from a 2011 American Hospital Association study commissioned by the health insurance lobby.
Other studies tell a different story.



It is extremely foolish to shell out 5X the cost of ordinary medical care to cover uninsured persons who show up at an Emergency Room.

View attachment 67260111

And it's NOT FREE.
It's not free to the end user, who suffers drastic hits to their credit rating, collections actions and bankruptcies.
And it is not free to everyone else who might experience absurdly long ER wait times, due to record overcrowding of facilities which are stretched way beyond their capacity.

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I was being sarcastic.

Exquisitor said:

I know how to characterize it.

It was the buzz a few years ago, have they improved?

How has Trump done there?

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I am not going to allow you to get away with that.
If you have no personal or family experience with the VA, then you're going on hearsay and spreading right wing twaddle.

The VA was for many years a disastrous place to get healthcare, but in the last twenty years they've undertaken a monstrous effort to improve. Not all the ideas worked, there's a continuing issue with some remnants of toxic culture and it is an enormous bureaucracy.
All that having been said, VA care is now equal to or better than the private sector and has been for a while, despite the continued existence of a few really bad VA facilities which cannot seem to get their act together.

The recent scandals involving veterans dying from too long wait times are the exception rather than the rule.
What has Trump done? The one good thing he has managed to do is expand the VA Mission Act, introduce more choice to veterans who live in underserved locations, or who ARE STILL experiencing long wait times.

On the other hand, he has also begun the process of creeping privatization of the VA, something an overwhelming majority of veterans DO NOT WANT.

Here's Anthony J. Principi, one of the most successful recent SecVA's and a Bush pick for the position.

VA isn't broken, but it's in desperate need of change

The smartest recommendation he made, which no one is listening to, is that the VA and Dept of Defense healthcare systems need to be merged into ONE system that accommodates everyone, active duty and veteran alike.
Eliminating the absurd amount of duplication would result in tremendous cost savings, make the transition from active duty to veteran status much easier, allow for MORE facilities even while closing down unneeded locations and it would allow generous sharing of resources.

I don't understand and have never understood WHY the DoD hospital system and the VA system have ever been separate.
I also believe that it would end the growing disconnect between able bodied active duty personnel and disabled vets.
It is healthy for the two groups to stick together, and I am not alone in thinking it improves morale.

I am not the disabled veteran in this discussion, I am "the six foot growth ATTACHED TO the disabled veteran", namely my wife Karen, who is a 100% service connected disabled Navy vet, who has had her life saved no less than seven times by the VA.

There's plenty of room for improvement, and there are still some issues but overall, VA care is unique and cannot be replaced or duplicated by the private sector.

Exquisitor said:

I was being sarcastic.

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Sorry but the sarcasm doesn't always carry over text and it definitely can be blurred across cultural lines.
Plus, this is a very serious subject and I suspect Finn Fox is asking serious questions.

So I wouldn't be surprised if our Finnish friend might have missed the snark.
I take the healthcare issue very seriously for the simple reason that I have a disabled son and a disabled wife, and both are potentially vulnerable to the meddling by TrumpCo.

And while the media frenzy about the twin dragons of VA scandals and the ACA's flaws aren't entirely undeserved, the VA doesn't deserve the reputation as a hall of death and the solution to the flaws of the ACA does not lie in erasing it and returning America to pre-ACA times.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Sorry but the sarcasm doesn't always carry over text and it definitely can be blurred across cultural lines.
Plus, this is a very serious subject and I suspect Finn Fox is asking serious questions.

So I wouldn't be surprised if our Finnish friend might have missed the snark.
I take the healthcare issue very seriously for the simple reason that I have a disabled son and a disabled wife, and both are potentially vulnerable to the meddling by TrumpCo.

And while the media frenzy about the twin dragons of VA scandals and the ACA's flaws aren't entirely undeserved, the VA doesn't deserve the reputation as a hall of death and the solution to the flaws of the ACA does not lie in erasing it and returning America to pre-ACA times.

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I was going to explain it to him, how the ER option is costly, but someone else answered it.

Exquisitor said:

I care that Republicans cut taxes mostly for the rich and handed over a world-wide economic crisis and then stalled the recovery handing us Trump who only cut taxes for the rich again, when the Democrats would only take away my guns dooming us worse.

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I promise you that the mainstream folks like me won't allow anyone to come for your guns.
I am a liberal gun owner, if they try to take yours, it means they'll try to take mine.
Even Gabby Giffords is still a gun owner.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I promise you that the mainstream folks like me won't allow anyone to come for your guns.
I am a liberal gun owner, if they try to take yours, it means they'll try to take mine.
Even Gabby Giffords is still a gun owner.

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Ya, you can tell me you won't allow it, but what's going to keep Democrat House and Senate from doing it?

They'll say, "Let's go follow like London." Well, London only hasn't gotten hers because we still have our guns.

This is a characterization.

I haven't had a guns since I was in high school.

It's not so important that I have a gun, but that you do.

FinnFox said:

Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan?

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Ten years and no replacement produced because there is no alternative to be offered by the GOP. If the ACA were dissolved, the nation would almost certainly move to a large expansion of federal public insurance.