Obamacare is soon dead? What next?

PIPEWRENCH · Jul 21, 2019

Jay59 said:
I have no doubt of the Clinton's graft. One need only look at their real estate. Fortunately, the Dan Rostenkowskis and Bill/Hillary Clintons are newsworthy for their rarity. The influence of money is more subtle. I do find it interesting that Rosty is from the same Chicago machine that produced Barack Obama, but that is all there is for present--interest. In comparison, Republicans are like the driven snow. Reporters will give a Democrat some slack but never a Republican. Even minor missteps are often career ending.

The double standards are necessary to keep us evenly divided. You do know that a handful of the rich and powerful own almost all the media in this country. They also fund both parties. remember when the banks got bailed out. Both parties couldn't give them our money fast enough. No chance of a veto.

I thought our government might use those trillions of dollars to help the hard working taxpayers keep their homes. The banks would have still got the money but the people would have been helped and most could have kept their homes. But the rich and powerful had no intention of those people keeping their homes. Not when they could make they buy them all over again.

Jay59 · Jul 22, 2019

PIPEWRENCH said:
The double standards are necessary to keep us evenly divided. You do know that a handful of the rich and powerful own almost all the media in this country. They also fund both parties. remember when the banks got bailed out. Both parties couldn't give them our money fast enough. No chance of a veto.

I thought our government might use those trillions of dollars to help the hard working taxpayers keep their homes. The banks would have still got the money but the people would have been helped and most could have kept their homes. But the rich and powerful had no intention of those people keeping their homes. Not when they could make they buy them all over again.

If you want to believe the rich totally control everything, I cannot stop you. I will say it's a bit silly and simplistic.

PIPEWRENCH · Jul 22, 2019

Jay59 said:
If you want to believe the rich totally control everything, I cannot stop you. I will say it's a bit silly and simplistic.

Who controls are money? Who funds both parties and the candidates we have to choose from? Who owns almost every source of news and information in this country. When you find the answers to those questions you will know who runs this country. Until then believe the pipedream of "We the People".

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2019

PIPEWRENCH said:
Actually they would contribute the least. The elderly and the poor don't buy much to pay tax on. The people who spend the most will pay the most. That would be the rich and upper middle class. e.

Well first. The elderly and poor pay way more of their income and or their savings (for elderly).. on things to live on... than do rich people. So.. you have some poor person who is basically making just enough to live on.. and you plan on increasing his costs exponentially.

You have an elderly person that's living off their savings. or the sale of their house and using that to supplement their meager social security.. and you are taxing them by making everything they buy taxable. (essentially you are taxing their savings..even though they have already paid income tax on that money).

Sorry sir but you have not thought this through.

And you are not going to get the insurance companies out of it anyway. Currently about 60% of health insurance company revenue is from administering public plans.

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2019

Jay59 said:
There is definitely a balance to draw. I could see a program where the government did catastrophic and emergency care and let the market fill in the gaps.

Sure.. in other words.. make the taxpayer liable for the really expensive stuff and let the insurance companies skim the profit off everything else.

More socializing the risks.. and privatizing the profits.

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2019

iguanaman said:
Just a comment about guns. Do you think universal background checks with no loopholes should be the law? Also we do need to take the guns of spouse abusers and mental patients don't we? Adding some sanity to gun ownership is not the same as taking away all guns.

There are already laws on the books that take away firearms from those that have been adjudicated mentally deficient..and those that have been convicted of spousal abuse.

You aren't adding any sanity. You are adding insanity.

Fellow kills his mother.. steals her firearms.. and your answer? Universal background checks!!!!

Please explain that logic.

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2019

Jay59 said:
Are they? I don't see it that way. The rich have more access. They can make their points more easily than you of I, but it's a balanced factor. I do not see control of either party much less both.

J

They control both parties to a degree. Lately though since the tea party... the republican party has been subverted by some radical elements.. and that's why it can't get anything really done.

The wealthy have always ruled both parties. You don't get elected without money and you don't stay elected without money. That has always been true since the founding of our nation.

Jay59 · Jul 22, 2019

PIPEWRENCH said:
Who controls are money? Who funds both parties and the candidates we have to choose from? Who owns almost every source of news and information in this country. When you find the answers to those questions you will know who runs this country. Until then believe the pipedream of "We the People".

The is the question. It's not that the money controls the government but that the government tries to control the money. It is the nature of bureaucracies to protect themselves, to seek to expand their reach and to outlive trends, centuries, dynasties, even cultures. The Chinese bureaucracy enabled the Middle Kingdom to swallow invaders for millennia. You will note that Churchill's famous words were spoken on Remembrance Day, soon after WW II ended.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time....

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Jay59 · Jul 22, 2019

jaeger19 said:
There are already laws on the books that take away firearms from those that have been adjudicated mentally deficient..and those that have been convicted of spousal abuse.

You aren't adding any sanity. You are adding insanity.

Fellow kills his mother.. steals her firearms.. and your answer? Universal background checks!!!!

Please explain that logic.

The kids at Columbine violated 23 federal laws. One more law would not have stopped them. The saying is that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws are armed. Yes, it's trite, but there is a core of truth. Those that are intent on something illegal will not hesitate at a gun law. At most, it makes acquisition more difficult.

PIPEWRENCH · Jul 22, 2019

jaeger19 said:
Well first. The elderly and poor pay way more of their income and or their savings (for elderly).. on things to live on... than do rich people. So.. you have some poor person who is basically making just enough to live on.. and you plan on increasing his costs exponentially.

You have an elderly person that's living off their savings. or the sale of their house and using that to supplement their meager social security.. and you are taxing them by making everything they buy taxable. (essentially you are taxing their savings..even though they have already paid income tax on that money).

Sorry sir but you have not thought this through.

And you are not going to get the insurance companies out of it anyway. Currently about 60% of health insurance company revenue is from administering public plans.

Do like a lot of states do and exclude necessities from the tax. That solves the problem. It really is simple as long as people don't intentionally try to overcomplicate it because it does not fit their agenda.

PIPEWRENCH · Jul 22, 2019

Jay59 said:
The is the question. It's not that the money controls the government but that the government tries to control the money. It is the nature of bureaucracies to protect themselves, to seek to expand their reach and to outlive trends, centuries, dynasties, even cultures. The Chinese bureaucracy enabled the Middle Kingdom to swallow invaders for millennia. You will note that Churchill's famous words were spoken on Remembrance Day, soon after WW II ended.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time....
Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Tell that to the bankers who make up the federal reserve that money doesn't control governments. The same bankers that fund both parties so no matter who we vote for they win. Oh and their billionaire buddies who own all the media in this country are right in step with them.

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2019

PIPEWRENCH said:
Do like a lot of states do and exclude necessities from the tax. That solves the problem. It really is simple as long as people don't intentionally try to overcomplicate it because it does not fit their agenda.

Define necessities.

The fact is.. sales taxes are extremely regressive.. they hit those that can't afford the taxes the hardest.. while those that are wealthier pay so much less of their income in taxes.

Its why by the way we went to an income tax.

Its only simple.. if you don't want to examine what actually happens to people with a sales tax and how a sales tax works.

Think about it man.. I just brought up several points that you had obviously never thought of.

PIPEWRENCH · Jul 22, 2019

jaeger19 said:
Define necessities.

The fact is.. sales taxes are extremely regressive.. they hit those that can't afford the taxes the hardest.. while those that are wealthier pay so much less of their income in taxes.

Its why by the way we went to an income tax.

Its only simple.. if you don't want to examine what actually happens to people with a sales tax and how a sales tax works.

Think about it man.. I just brought up several points that you had obviously never thought of.

Most people have been paying a state and city sales tax their entire life. The poor and elderly are not losing their homes to sales taxes which they can avoid by not buying items that are taxed. They are getting killed by property tax and medical. Even with Medicare and Medicaid the poor still have deductibles they can't meet. It is the rich that buy almost all the luxury items that the sales tax can be applied to. I worked for the rich and know how much they buy. I have wealthy people in my family that easily spend more money a year on luxury items than the poor people in our family make in several years.