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Obamacare is soon dead? What next?

As usual I see a lot of comments damning the ACA but none with the bigger, better, cheaper healthcare the president promised us when he was a candidate. Next it will be medicare and social security, the real prizes for the GOP to cut out. I guess some republicans will also cheer that on?
 
Exquisitor said:
Ya, you can tell me you won't allow it, but what's going to keep Democrat House and Senate from doing it?

They'll say, "Let's go follow like London." Well, London only hasn't gotten hers because we still have our guns.

This is a characterization.

I haven't had a guns since I was in high school.

It's not so important that I have a gun, but that you do.
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For one thing, it is mathematically and fiscally impossible here.
The USA has over 350 million privately owned guns.
The cost alone to track down, adjudicate and confiscate that many guns would easily run into the hundreds of billions, or more.
And it would have the success rate of...you guessed it...the "war on drugs".

And it would also create the mother of all unintended consequences, the kind that are attendant with any kind of prohibition, an underground black market possibly larger than the drug empire.

Will guns be regulated? Yes, eventually there will be some regulation, however what's in need of regulation and reform the most is our sick society.
Society and its sickos and criminals are the problem, and that's what needs the attention.
Watching politicos trying to score points with their base can be nauseating at times, Left or Right.
But in the end, it is the mainstream and the independents who will push back and despite all the talk of overturning the 2A it is extremely unlikely to ever happen, and despite all the talk of London and New Zealand, we are not London or New Zealand, and the guns are here to stay.

In the end, the thing that most people want is for our 2A rights to carry with them some responsibilities, and a fresh approach to mental health.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
For one thing, it is mathematically and fiscally impossible here.
The USA has over 350 million privately owned guns.
The cost alone to track down, adjudicate and confiscate that many guns would easily run into the hundreds of billions, or more.
And it would have the success rate of...you guessed it...the "war on drugs".

And it would also create the mother of all unintended consequences, the kind that are attendant with any kind of prohibition, an underground black market possibly larger than the drug empire.

Will guns be regulated? Yes, eventually there will be some regulation, however what's in need of regulation and reform the most is our sick society.
Society and its sickos and criminals are the problem, and that's what needs the attention.
Watching politicos trying to score points with their base can be nauseating at times, Left or Right.
But in the end, it is the mainstream and the independents who will push back and despite all the talk of overturning the 2A it is extremely unlikely to ever happen, and despite all the talk of London and New Zealand, we are not London or New Zealand, and the guns are here to stay.

In the end, the thing that most people want is for our 2A rights to carry with them some responsibilities, and a fresh approach to mental health.
Click to expand...

Are you telling me that we can give the Democrats both Houses and not worry about them ****ing up guns?
 
Exquisitor said:
Are you telling me that we can give the Democrats both Houses and not worry about them ****ing up guns?
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I don't think there is any danger of democrats taking your guns. Now some states are.just dumb places for.gun owners to live.

I do think proper health care.for.the mentally ill will do more to stop the mass shootings than anything.elae. jails are not.the proper.place for the mentally ill. Homeless on the streets is not.the proper.place for.the mentally ill. Most parents or other care givers are not equiped to deal with the mentally ill. Giving them meds and releasing.them to their own responsibility hasn't worked well.
 
Exquisitor said:
Are you telling me that we can give the Democrats both Houses and not worry about them ****ing up guns?
Click to expand...

Did it happen during Obama? It didn't.
Personally I am not in favor of banning a specific type of gun, any specific type, because it is not an effective deterrent to sales, so it's a pointless symbolic gesture that overwhelmingly singles out people who are law abiding, and doesn't do a thing to stop criminals.

It's like saying, "Pot is legal but we're outlawing brownies because children might eat them."
Really? Seriously? Give me a break, it just means people will go on buying and making brownies anyway, only now responsible adult users will be criminals.
Just don't let children be anywhere near those kinds of brownies, the same way you don't let them near your Bacardi 151.

I'm sure that there will be calls to do this or do that, but there have been calls to do all kinds of things in both Republican and Democrat years.
I'm saying that it is impossible to ban or confiscate guns, because actually carrying something like that out is a disastrously expensive failure, and the American people, even Democrats, will not stand for it. There are plenty of mainstream independents, mainstream liberals and Democrats who respect the Second Amendment. If we stop polarizing and tribalizing, it becomes possible to reach out to these people and dialogue with them.

I CANNOT tell you that ALL Democrats aren't gun banners. Of course some of them are.
Not all Republicans are in favor of outlawing abortion altogether, but there are some who do think we need a total ban.
Some states have enacted absurd laws to that effect and those state laws are being challenged, even by other Republicans.

Are we supposed to let the extremists run the show?
 
Exquisitor said:
Are you telling me that we can give the Democrats both Houses and not worry about them ****ing up guns?
Click to expand...

From the past, there have been many times when the Democrats have both the house , senate and presidency, and nothing happened to gun ownership. That is pushing fear.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Did it happen during Obama? It didn't.
Personally I am not in favor of banning a specific type of gun, any specific type, because it is not an effective deterrent to sales, so it's a pointless symbolic gesture that overwhelmingly singles out people who are law abiding, and doesn't do a thing to stop criminals.

It's like saying, "Pot is legal but we're outlawing brownies because children might eat them."
Really? Seriously? Give me a break, it just means people will go on buying and making brownies anyway, only now responsible adult users will be criminals.
Just don't let children be anywhere near those kinds of brownies, the same way you don't let them near your Bacardi 151.

I'm sure that there will be calls to do this or do that, but there have been calls to do all kinds of things in both Republican and Democrat years.
I'm saying that it is impossible to ban or confiscate guns, because actually carrying something like that out is a disastrously expensive failure, and the American people, even Democrats, will not stand for it. There are plenty of mainstream independents, mainstream liberals and Democrats who respect the Second Amendment. If we stop polarizing and tribalizing, it becomes possible to reach out to these people and dialogue with them.

I CANNOT tell you that ALL Democrats aren't gun banners. Of course some of them are.
Not all Republicans are in favor of outlawing abortion altogether, but there are some who do think we need a total ban.
Some states have enacted absurd laws to that effect and those state laws are being challenged, even by other Republicans.

Are we supposed to let the extremists run the show?
Click to expand...

I want the militia imbued with sufficient firepower to deter foreign aggression, keep our leaders true and defend homes in various crisis contingencies.

I do not want to have to depend upon my leaders or army to supply me with guns, magazines or ammunition in any such scenario.

Even Alien attack is possible.

what kind of firepower would you want your neighbors to have against such an event?

I think I need an assault rifle, magazines and ammunition.

Pistols and shotguns aren't going to do it.
 
Exquisitor said:
I want the militia imbued with sufficient firepower to deter foreign aggression, keep our leaders true and defend homes in various crisis contingencies.

I do not want to have to depend upon my leaders or army to supply me with guns, magazines or ammunition in any such scenario.

Even Alien attack is possible.

what kind of firepower would you want your neighbors to have against such an event?

I think I need an assault rifle, magazines and ammunition.

Pistols and shotguns aren't going to do it.
Click to expand...

I'm a liberal gun owner. I don't have any problem with that.
You want to know what I think as far as high powered firearms go?
I think there needs to be a requirement that you get a few hours of approved training, that's it.

I don't worry about my neighbor showing up with a skiploader, but if he starts digging near the street with a drilling rig, I want to know if he has the training to avoid hitting the gas lines, you know?

But you go ahead get your firepower. I'd just like to be sure you know what you're doing with it.
When you say militia...how do you define that?

I think of the various STATE militias and the National Guard.
 
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FinnFox said:
Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)
Click to expand...

Obamacare is the worst thing regarding healthcare ever inflicted on the American people at least since government run one-size-fits-all Medicare and Medicaid that began the upward spiral of healthcare costs to unaffordable levels for millions. Just as government meddling in higher education has pushed college costs to unaffordable levels for millions. There simply is no substitute for capitalism and the free market to keep things affordable and attractive so that people will buy products and services.

President Trump has done well to roll back the most onerous and destructive of Obamacare provisions, but most of the legislation is still in effect and the system will never return to a patient oriented and sensitive system until it is repealed. It will be replaced, if President Trump has opportunity to do that, with common sense legislation that encourages competition regulated by proper anti trust and RICO laws, and encourages the private sector to address what people need rather than the government deciding what they will be allowed to have.
 
RAMOSS said:
From the past, there have been many times when the Democrats have both the house , senate and presidency, and nothing happened to gun ownership. That is pushing fear.
Click to expand...

Well, I think they should do something.

I want a triple redundant informed, limited access buy system.

In high school you get gun, law and mental health training so you know when to give up your guns.

A mark on your driver's license and a buy and five level no-buy lists make your gun identity secure.

If you offer to buy back my gun it puts a price on it and I must be more careful with it.

Young people should be trained to report threatening comments at the first instance.

Any gun out of its case without a permit is a confiscatible offense.

Guns

But we're off topic having shot Obamacare dead.

What's next? Democratic House and Senate?

Can you pull it with any Candidate?

Can you overcome their Astrological statistics?

Predicting US Presidential elections
 
rickc said:
Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America?
Click to expand...

It doesn't cost that.

You are charged that because 1. Each insurance will pay a different amount and so to capture reimbursement a hospital must have its charges high enough to capture the maximal reimbursement.. since some insurances will pay 1200 and some will pay 20,000.

2. The hospital has to shift costs from less used services.. though vital.. to other services that are more frequent.. in order to make the financials work.
 
The cost of health insurance is out of control. Obamacare didn't help. I say roll back prices 10 years and freeze them there until a truly viable plan is found.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
For one thing, it is mathematically and fiscally impossible here.
The USA has over 350 million privately owned guns.
The cost alone to track down, adjudicate and confiscate that many guns would easily run into the hundreds of billions, or more.
And it would have the success rate of...you guessed it...the "war on drugs".

And it would also create the mother of all unintended consequences, the kind that are attendant with any kind of prohibition, an underground black market possibly larger than the drug empire.

Will guns be regulated? Yes, eventually there will be some regulation, however what's in need of regulation and reform the most is our sick society.
Society and its sickos and criminals are the problem, and that's what needs the attention.
Watching politicos trying to score points with their base can be nauseating at times, Left or Right.
But in the end, it is the mainstream and the independents who will push back and despite all the talk of overturning the 2A it is extremely unlikely to ever happen, and despite all the talk of London and New Zealand, we are not London or New Zealand, and the guns are here to stay.

In the end, the thing that most people want is for our 2A rights to carry with them some responsibilities, and a fresh approach to mental health.
Click to expand...

Good god..if you could only get the democrat politicians to follow that en masse.. they would win just about every election hands down.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Obamacare is the worst thing regarding healthcare ever inflicted on the American people at least since government run one-size-fits-all Medicare and Medicaid that began the upward spiral of healthcare costs to unaffordable levels for millions. Just as government meddling in higher education has pushed college costs to unaffordable levels for millions. There simply is no substitute for capitalism and the free market to keep things affordable and attractive so that people will buy products and services.

President Trump has done well to roll back the most onerous and destructive of Obamacare provisions, but most of the legislation is still in effect and the system will never return to a patient oriented and sensitive system until it is repealed. It will be replaced, if President Trump has opportunity to do that, with common sense legislation that encourages competition regulated by proper anti trust and RICO laws, and encourages the private sector to address what people need rather than the government deciding what they will be allowed to have.
Click to expand...

Please explain exactly what Obamacare did and it is.

Because you demonstrate that you have little understanding of Obamacare. Obamacare was based on capitalism and free arket principles. The exchanges, the incentives for insurance companies to expand into new markets.. etc.. were all based on free market solutions.

What trump has rolled back is the things that made a free market system work. He rolled by the mandate so now..people can go without insurance.. and yet STILL get healthcare at the ER.

He has rolled back the incentives for insurance companies to go into new markets and compete.. creating more competition and thus lower prices.
 
FinnFox said:
Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)
Click to expand...

Two questions:
How high are your taxes, IOW what percentage of your paycheck is “take home” pay?

And

How much welfare do you pay out to those who don’t or won’t work?
 
RAMOSS said:
From the past, there have been many times when the Democrats have both the house , senate and presidency, and nothing happened to gun ownership. That is pushing fear.
Click to expand...

And there are times when democrats pushed gun bans and we had a 10 year assault weapons ban.. w

and there are current laws.. passed by democrat politicians in blue states that have curtailed firearms purchases, and the second amendment.
 
arctic fox said:
The cost of health insurance is out of control. Obamacare didn't help. I say roll back prices 10 years and freeze them there until a truly viable plan is found.
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What would be the mechanism by which price rollbacks would be achieved?
 
arctic fox said:
Presidential executive order
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It would be immediately blocked in courts.

Can you imagine how complicated it would be to reinstate all the prices from 10 years ago? There are so many different businesses involved in the providing medical goods and services, so many people employed in so many capacities. Would all the wages of all those people connected with medical industries and services also go back to what they were 10 years ago?

How about the costs of equipment and components which come from overseas?




I guess I should ask if you're really serious. But in case you are, no, it would be blocked. Millions of people would have standing to request the courts to block it. A wave of injunctions would be issued.
 
Amelia said:
It would be immediately blocked in courts.

Can you imagine how complicated it would be to reinstate all the prices from 10 years ago? There are so many different businesses involved in the providing medical goods and services, so many people employed in so many capacities. Would all the wages of all those people connected with medical industries and services also go back to what they were 10 years ago?

How about the costs of equipment and components which come from overseas?




I guess I should ask if you're really serious. But in case you are, no, it would be blocked. Millions of people would have standing to request the courts to block it. A wave of injunctions would be issued.
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No, I'm not really serious. I know it would never get past all the litigation, it's nice idea though.
 
Jay59 said:
Ending ACA makes the best of a bad situation. It's an improvement but we were still better in 2008.
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You can't go back. All the gold diggers in our healthcare system have already raised prices to compensate. You cannot regulate the very people that own our government.

The only way our health care will ever be affordable is we have to get all the gold digging middlemen who do nothing to provide health care out of the loop. First the insurance companies have to go. They do not provide health care just profit from it. True single payer with a sales tax on all goods sold in the country is the only thing I can come up with.
 
FinnFox said:
Trump want to end Obamacare, but is there any alternative (better?) healthcare plan? If so, I like to see link to it. My guess is that Trumpanzees love it, whatever Trump is doing.

Those who oppose Obamacare know how bad it is? I have no idea, since I'm foreigner.

If you can't afford healthcare in US, you just die off? (being so poor is poor's fault, lazy and stupid, right?)
Click to expand...
Health care insurance will still be around. There are several initiatives being worked on to lower costs and increase consumer choices.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
You can't go back. All the gold diggers in our healthcare system have already raised prices to compensate. You cannot regulate the very people that own our government.

The only way our health care will ever be affordable is we have to get all the gold digging middlemen who do nothing to provide health care out of the loop. First the insurance companies have to go. They do not provide health care just profit from it. True single payer with a sales tax on all goods sold in the country is the only thing I can come up with.
Click to expand...

So then we tax the crap out of the elderly and poor.. sure. Force more people into poverty.

sure.
 
jaeger19 said:
So then we tax the crap out of the elderly and poor.. sure. Force more people into poverty.

sure.
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Sales tax isn't taxing the crap out of the elderly and poor.


The money saved by getting rid of the gold-digging middlemen will save megabucks, which can then be put into paying for the healthcare of those in actual poverty.
 
jaeger19 said:
So then we tax the crap out of the elderly and poor.. sure. Force more people into poverty.

sure.
Click to expand...

Actually they would contribute the least. The elderly and the poor don't buy much to pay tax on. The people who spend the most will pay the most. That would be the rich and upper middle class. Either way we have to pay for health care or we can just start shooting the sick and putting them out of their misery. I saw we take all the people out of the loop that are only getting rich on other peoples suffering. We don't need commission sales people, we don't need impressive buildings with penthouses for the billionaires who own the insurance companies, all the commercials, the bribes I mean campaign contributions, and everything else that is not directly providing health care. We cut a few trillion dollars worth of fat and health care becomes affordable.
 
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