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Thread: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    So what happens when those that do not pay nothing increase even more?

    Like the relativity NEW Medicaid EXPANSION etc....
    The same thing that happens in the rest of the first world : they get health care for a fraction of what we pay, and most of them have a similar or higher life expectancy.

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    You forget that most people who have private insurance get most of it paid for by their employer. Fixing our broken system is a lot more complicated than a couple of worn out soundbites.
    The complicated part is getting enough obstructionists voted out.

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?
    Republicans believe the answer's no; Bernie Sanders believes otherwise? I suspect he's right. Respectfully, Supposn
    What would be the percentage added as a sales tax to fund this?
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    The complicated part is getting enough obstructionists voted out.
    My sense is that people underestimate the complexity of a multi-trillion dollar piece of our economy. For example I wonder how many folks even on a site to "debate politics" understand the role of insurance companies at major corporations. There they get paid just as an administrator. Large companies self-insure. Or that about 20 million people on Medicare also have a form of private insurance for their Medicare plus.

    While there are cost savings in the two places you mentioned, there are many other areas for cost containment. However they don't lend themselves to a 30 second ad or a minute on the debate stage. Cost cuts are a positive to the consumer but politicians fear them because they also translate into job loses etc. Thus I am much more skeptical than you that any political solution will be found. The last 30-40 years experience has proven that to be true.

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    My sense is that people underestimate the complexity of a multi-trillion dollar piece of our economy. For example I wonder how many folks even on a site to "debate politics" understand the role of insurance companies at major corporations. There they get paid just as an administrator. Large companies self-insure. Or that about 20 million people on Medicare also have a form of private insurance for their Medicare plus.

    While there are cost savings in the two places you mentioned, there are many other areas for cost containment. However they don't lend themselves to a 30 second ad or a minute on the debate stage. Cost cuts are a positive to the consumer but politicians fear them because they also translate into job loses etc. Thus I am much more skeptical than you that any political solution will be found. The last 30-40 years experience has proven that to be true.
    It will be tough to get single payer through without an economic collapse happening first. Then there is the added problem of keeping Republicans out of power long enough for it to set. If not, they will sabotage it and try to force it into failure as they have done with the ACA.

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    I thought the Fed Gov can now tax you anyway they want thank's to the 16th Amendment?
    Taxing incomes is not the same thing as a sales tax. Regardless of how someone earns their income, Congress has the constitutional authority to tax it. However, Congress can only impose a sales tax on commerce that crosses interstate and international borders. They have no constitutional authority to implement any tax on intrastate commerce. Furthermore, the Tenth Amendment already prohibits any federal program like MediCare/MedicAid since the US Constitution never gave Congress the authority to enact such organizations. Only the States have the constitutional authority to spend taxpayer money on social programs like MediCare/MedicAid. The federal government is prohibited.

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Taxing incomes is not the same thing as a sales tax. Regardless of how someone earns their income, Congress has the constitutional authority to tax it. However, Congress can only impose a sales tax on commerce that crosses interstate and international borders. They have no constitutional authority to implement any tax on intrastate commerce. Furthermore, the Tenth Amendment already prohibits any federal program like MediCare/MedicAid since the US Constitution never gave Congress the authority to enact such organizations. Only the States have the constitutional authority to spend taxpayer money on social programs like MediCare/MedicAid. The federal government is prohibited.
    Nope. The wickard decision shows federal control over inter and intra state commerce constitutional

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?
    Republicans believe the answer's no; Bernie Sanders believes otherwise? I suspect he's right. Respectfully, Supposn
    Hmmm... why do you believe Sanders is right.

    Particularly when federal sales tax is so regressive it will hit poor and middle class folks more.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Originally Posted by Helix:
    fund it with a portion of what we're already paying in premiums. Cutting out the for-profit insurance middleman will be a big cost savings. Letting single payer negotiate prices will be another one.
    And the ones that pay nothing stay at nothing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    And the ones that pay nothing stay at nothing?
    Helix and Luther, federal net cost of Medicare4All, (M4A) would depend upon how the act's drafted; (i.e. dependent upon if what if any co-payments should the be paid by patients or those responsible for any patient's M4A co-payments).
    In the cases of the poor, that would be, as Medicaid is now funded from governments' general tax revenues and budgets.

    Effectively, medical expenditure's for treating the poor would increase only to the extent that the working poor are generally not covered by state's administered Medicaid.
    Effectively, hospital emergency room treatments with all of their consequential additional costs including eventual costs due to medical preventative and screening procedures that were not performed.

    Regarding M4A additional costs to aggregate taxpayers and our governments, treating the poor and the working poor would effectively be improved with little or no increased costs to our aggregate governments and taxpayers.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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    Re: Would voters be willing to fund Medicare4All with a federal sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    I thought the Fed Gov can now tax you anyway they want thank's to the 16th Amendment?
    The way I take that is the federal government can tax incomes from whatever source. A sales tax is not a tax on incomes but things bought and sold. I'm no constitutional lawyer, so I could be completely wrong. You have your income tax which taxes your income, your corporation tax which taxes corporations income, your capital gains tax which taxes you income from stocks and bonds etc. But all income based.

    A sales tax isn't a tax on income but items bought and sold.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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