Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

  1. #1
    Sage
    Bucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Washington
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,668
    Blog Entries
    19

    Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    United States Department of Veterans Affairs. We already have government ran healthcare in the VA. Tell me if we replicate this system for the entire country it will be a good thing
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Albert Einstein

  2. #2
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    48,086

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    United States Department of Veterans Affairs. We already have government ran healthcare in the VA. Tell me if we replicate this system for the entire country it will be a good thing
    Medicare and Medicaid are also government run health care systems. They seem to work pretty well.

    But, you still may be right. Our government is so screwed up right now that it couldn't do what every other modern nation has done: Provide universal health care for less than what we're paying now.

    MAGA indeed.


    "The Republicans have gone from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution." Andy Borowitz

  3. #3
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    9,506

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Most of the talk I've seen is about government-reimbursed health care, not government-run health care.

  4. #4
    Verifier
    Gladiator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Your Back Yard
    Last Seen
    09-12-19 @ 05:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,189

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Medicare and Medicaid are also government run health care systems. They seem to work pretty well.

    But, you still may be right. Our government is so screwed up right now that it couldn't do what every other modern nation has done: Provide universal health care for less than what we're paying now.

    MAGA indeed.



    Hospitals are closing because Medicare and Medicaid do not cover the full cost of health care. Private insurance makes up for the money lost to Medicaid and Mdedicare.

    "The yawning gap between payments to hospitals by Medicare and by private health insurers for the same medical services may prove the biggest obstacle for advocates of “Medicare for all,” a government-run system.

    If Medicare for all abolished private insurance and reduced rates to Medicare levels — at least 40 percent lower, by one estimate — there would most likely be significant changes throughout the health care industry, which makes up 18 percent of the nation’s economy and is one of the nation’s largest employers."

    Hospitals Stand to Lose Billions Under ‘Medicare for All’ - The New York Times




    //
    _______________________________
    How did Our Oil get under Their Sand?

  5. #5
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    48,086

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Hospitals are closing because Medicare and Medicaid do not cover the full cost of health care. Private insurance makes up for the money lost to Medicaid and Mdedicare.

    "The yawning gap between payments to hospitals by Medicare and by private health insurers for the same medical services may prove the biggest obstacle for advocates of “Medicare for all,” a government-run system.

    If Medicare for all abolished private insurance and reduced rates to Medicare levels — at least 40 percent lower, by one estimate — there would most likely be significant changes throughout the health care industry, which makes up 18 percent of the nation’s economy and is one of the nation’s largest employers."

    Hospitals Stand to Lose Billions Under ‘Medicare for All’ - The New York Times




    //


    If Medicare for all abolished private insurance and reduced rates to Medicare levels — at least 40 percent lower, by one estimate — there would most likely be significant changes throughout the health care industry, which makes up 18 percent of the nation’s economy and is one of the nation’s largest employers.
    So, "abolishing" private insurance would be a bad idea for sure. For one thing, Medicare does not pay the whole bill, only 80% of it. Private insurance would still be necessary, even with Medicare for all.

    How is it, I wonder, that nations that spend far less than we do nevertheless seem to have hospitals still open?


    "The Republicans have gone from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution." Andy Borowitz

  6. #6
    Sage
    Visbek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:12 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    13,686

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    United States Department of Veterans Affairs. We already have government ran healthcare in the VA. Tell me if we replicate this system for the entire country it will be a good thing
    Alrighty then

    The VA health system, as a matter of fact, does an excellent job overall. In 2018, they had over 7 million patients, about half age 65 and older. They handled nearly 120 million outpatient visits; over 15 million mental health outpatient visits; they manage over 150 hospitals and 800 clinics. That's more patients than the 7th largest private insurance company.

    Numerous studies also show that the VHA is more cost-effective, faster and higher quality than private care. 90% of VHA enrollees stay with the VHA; of the 10% that turn to private care, most go right back to the VHA.

    As a result, veterans who get care through the VHA are satisfied -- at higher rates than Medicare, by the way, one of the single most popular federal programs. Plus, the overwhelming majority of veterans dislike the idea of privatizing health services for veterans. (Most legislators don't like it either, as they know that paying for private care would cause VHA spending to soar.) The idea of privatizing the VHA is so toxic that almost no one ever directly advocates for privatization.

    The problems facing the VA are real -- but are also vastly exaggerated, both by the media and by the extremists who despise the very idea of government providing services. It should also be screamingly obvious that private health care has huge problems in the US, especially before the ACA. I.e. screaming "The VHA sucks!!!" because of a few genuine and well-publicized issues is not a real argument, because you aren't putting it into any sort of context or comparing it at all to private health care and its myriad problems.

    And of course, there are the dozens of advanced nations who offer government-managed health care, that do better than US health care on almost every count; not to mention Medicare and Medicaid, which work very well.

    Aren't you glad you asked?
    Last edited by Visbek; 07-09-19 at 12:32 PM.
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

    "When the mistakes fall disproportionately on one side, it is no respect for the notion of truth to pretend that everything is even." - Lee McIntyre

  7. #7
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:39 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,935

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, "abolishing" private insurance would be a bad idea for sure. For one thing, Medicare does not pay the whole bill, only 80% of it. Private insurance would still be necessary, even with Medicare for all.

    How is it, I wonder, that nations that spend far less than we do nevertheless seem to have hospitals still open?
    Well... that's a great question.

    One.. most nations do not have the comprehensive coverage in their health insurance like we do. For example.. our medicare covers far more than most other single payer countries.

    Two: They pay their providers way less money.. in many cases.. they simply have lower costs because pay in these countries is lower.

    Three. They have reduced access to hospitals and care. They keep the hospitals open.. because they have fewer hospitals and fewer beds.

    There is a cost in the US when we have local hospitals just minutes away in a rural area... when in another country.. that person would travel an hour to go to a regional hospital.

    That's why hospitals in the US are closing. As reimbursement tightens up and decreases.. hospitals that don't have the volume..simply can't survive.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

  8. #8
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:39 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,935

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Alrighty then

    The VA health system, as a matter of fact, does an excellent job overall. In 2018, they had over 7 million patients, about half age 65 and older. They handled nearly 120 million outpatient visits; over 15 million mental health outpatient visits; they manage over 150 hospitals and 800 clinics. That's more patients than the 7th largest private insurance company.

    Numerous studies also show that the VHA is more cost-effective, faster and higher quality than private care. 90% of VHA enrollees stay with the VHA; of the 10% that turn to private care, most go right back to the VHA.

    As a result, veterans who get care through the VHA are satisfied -- at higher rates than Medicare, by the way, one of the single most popular federal programs. Plus, the overwhelming majority of veterans dislike the idea of privatizing health services for veterans. (Most legislators don't like it either, as they know that paying for private care would cause VHA spending to soar.) The idea of privatizing the VHA is so toxic that almost no one ever directly advocates for privatization.

    The problems facing the VA are real -- but are also vastly exaggerated, both by the media and by the extremists who despise the very idea of government providing services. It should also be screamingly obvious that private health care has huge problems in the US, especially before the ACA. I.e. screaming "The VHA sucks!!!" because of a few genuine and well-publicized issues is not a real argument, because you aren't putting it into any sort of context or comparing it at all to private health care and its myriad problems.

    And of course, there are the dozens of advanced nations who offer government-managed health care, that do better than US health care on almost every count; not to mention Medicare and Medicaid, which work very well.

    Aren't you glad you asked?
    A few counterpoints.

    One.. the difference is not so much in the quality of care.. because studies do show that the VA provides pretty good quality of care. But that's not the issue. You are talking about providers here. So yes.. I treated I the VA system. I was a contractor in VA hospitals. Some of the were good.. some poor.. but the same issue was seen in private hospitals as well.. some good some bad.

    The issue when it comes to the VA.. is HOW that VA insurance is administered. Who gets qualified for care and when? How far do they have to travel?... how many visits do they get.. and so on.

    Sure.. you see a study that a patient that needs a rotator cuff repair.. goes into a VA hospital and he gets the same or better care than a patient with that same rotator cuff repair that goes into a private hospital.

    But..what you don't see.. is that the patient that needed the rotator cuff repair that was a VA patient.. the hoops that they may have had to go through and the delays to getting his care...

    Meanwhile..the fellow with medicare.. got scheduled for surgery in two weeks without the pre authorization and other crap the VA often makes patient go through.

    And in worse situations..we really don't know... because the VA has had a history of not putting those denials etc..on the books.. that's why there have been instances were Vets died while waiting for care.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

  9. #9
    Guru
    Sampson Simpson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Last Seen
    09-13-19 @ 09:32 AM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,349

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    United States Department of Veterans Affairs. We already have government ran healthcare in the VA. Tell me if we replicate this system for the entire country it will be a good thing
    That's due to a lack of funding. We can point to the long wait times, the denying of claims, all the stupid **** private companies due to screw people as well. That's a dumb argument, but then again, you are are a right winger, throwing out dumb talking points without any actual argument to back it up is your MO

    And also as usual, just make up a position people don't take. It's not government run healthcare, but single payer. But again, this is par from the course since you don't have any actual arguments to the real positions people take so make up ones that nobody ever made

  10. #10
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:39 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,935

    Re: Reason why government run health care in the U.S would be bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Sampson Simpson View Post
    That's due to a lack of funding. We can point to the long wait times, the denying of claims, all the stupid **** private companies due to screw people as well. That's a dumb argument, but then again, you are are a right winger, throwing out dumb talking points without any actual argument to back it up is your MO

    And also as usual, just make up a position people don't take. It's not government run healthcare, but single payer. But again, this is par from the course since you don't have any actual arguments to the real positions people take so make up ones that nobody ever made
    Hmmm... you think its a dumb talking point.

    Interestingly... why do you want Trump to be in charge of your healthcare? Because that's exactly what happens with a government run single payer (medicare for all).
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •