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A tale of 51 health systems

Greenbeard

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Last week The Commonwealth Fund released its 2019 Scorecard on State Health System Performance. It looks at how the 50 states + D.C. are doing on a number of different performance metrics.

The primary takeaway is perhaps that there's huge variation across the country. The top 5 best-performing states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Washington, and Connecticut) might as well exist in a different reality than the bottom 5 worst-performing states (Arkansas, Nevada, Texas, Oklahoma, and Mississippi). Something to keep in mind when considering comparisons of the performance of the U.S. internationally.

The Commonwealth Fund also produces international comparisons through its periodic "Mirror, Mirror" series. As an example, consider one of the indicators they use to rank nations on health care outcome: mortality amenable to health care:

2ef5idc.png


Lower mortality there is good because it presumably indicates your system is performing better at preventing the deaths it can.

That particular indicator also shows up in the state scorecards. As it turns out, there is a vast difference between the state that performs best on that metric, Minnesota (54.7 deaths per 100K), and the state that performs the worst, Mississippi (142.4 deaths per 100K). From Mississippi's score card:

2d9sai0.png


Now what do you notice?

One, that the U.S. average quoted here is way lower than what was used in the international comparison--that's odd and requires some explanation from The Commonwealth Fund.

Two, that the best-performing state is actually doing better than any of the countries used in the international comparison.

In fact, let's go to the map:

21mhgt5.png


All the light teal states are performing in line with or better than the top-performing nations in the international comparison (Australia, France, Norway, Sweden Switzerland).

The dark teal states are performing in line with the next tier of performers in the international comparison (Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the U.K.). And indeed if the numbers used in the state scorecards are accurate, that's where the U.S. average actually is: right around where Germany, the U.K., and New Zealand are performing.

But then we've got a number of states (in dark gray), clustered in the southeast, that perform way worse than the rest of the country and the rest of much of the developed world.

The performance gulf between Minnesota and Mississippi is a lot bigger than the gap between Minnesota and the performance of other nations with vastly different financing systems--indeed our 'best' states can hang with or surpass most of the leading international lights on a variety of metrics.
 
21mhgt5.png


But then we've got a number of states (in dark gray), clustered in the southeast, that perform way worse than the rest of the country and the rest of much of the developed world.

Well golly gee. Those dark gray backward states are also all Red states. Must be a coincidence! :no:

maxresdefault.jpg
 
I don't think its coincidental that those same underperforming states are also among to lowest in average income per capita.

Just goes to show you that health is indeed a function of income, and that if we either raised minimum incomes across the board or lowered the financial burden of healthcare that more people could be in better health.
 
I don't think its coincidental that those same underperforming states are also among to lowest in average income per capita.

Just goes to show you that health is indeed a function of income, and that if we either raised minimum incomes across the board or lowered the financial burden of healthcare that more people could be in better health.

It shouldn't be related to income, IMO. I'm wondering if there is variety of standards how to deal with people? (as secondary reason to explain differences between states). For example:

We have some differences between small towns / bigger cities (I like to think those as 2 different category, because only in bigger cities you have all possible medical assistance and in smaller places you can't get in surgery or even MRI). Small town next to this city where I'm at now was ranked #1 few years ago when it comes to basic public healthcare services and main thing in there is that you can get to doctor really fast (most of the time). Now I have to wait longer and book first, not just walk in and say "I need to see doctor" (I lived there "#1 town" 15 years, so I know the difference).
 
It shouldn't be related to income, IMO. I'm wondering if there is variety of standards how to deal with people? (as secondary reason to explain differences between states). For example:

We have some differences between small towns / bigger cities (I like to think those as 2 different category, because only in bigger cities you have all possible medical assistance and in smaller places you can't get in surgery or even MRI). Small town next to this city where I'm at now was ranked #1 few years ago when it comes to basic public healthcare services and main thing in there is that you can get to doctor really fast (most of the time). Now I have to wait longer and book first, not just walk in and say "I need to see doctor" (I lived there "#1 town" 15 years, so I know the difference).

I have to make an appointment to see my doctor most of the time, but there is an urgent care basically every three blocks in my town, so getting seen isn't a problem around here. That said, if I didn't have the insurance I have, it may not make a difference that there is a place to be seen on almost every corner, as I wouldn't be able to afford to go anyway. That was more my point. Those in lower income areas might have access to great facilities and simply not go to them because they can't afford to.
 
I have to make an appointment to see my doctor most of the time, but there is an urgent care basically every three blocks in my town, so getting seen isn't a problem around here. That said, if I didn't have the insurance I have, it may not make a difference that there is a place to be seen on almost every corner, as I wouldn't be able to afford to go anyway. That was more my point. Those in lower income areas might have access to great facilities and simply not go to them because they can't afford to.

That's sad. Well, I can't even imagine system like that and it's scary - seriously scary.
 
I don't think its coincidental that those same underperforming states are also among to lowest in average income per capita.

Just goes to show you that health is indeed a function of income, and that if we either raised minimum incomes across the board or lowered the financial burden of healthcare that more people could be in better health.

If might be a chicken and egg thing. Hard to say if poverty creates worse health outcomes or vice versa. Poverty is a very complicated thing. It leads to all sorts of dysfunctional attitudes, culture, and mindsets ( ignorance, racism and bigotry, lack of emphasis on education, bad habits, etc,...) which in turn further propagate the poverty. It becomes a dangerous vicious cycle.

For example, the same people who might benefit from policies to help them might reject the help because of a misunderstanding or simplistic understanding of communism vs capitalism, and think that this may be a slippery slope to Soviet style communism. Those iwith the power and wealth may propagate such beliefs, thinking that they can so maintain their position of advantage in society, without thinking further ahead that a more fair society will also help them in the long term in absolute terms. They may reject the science on climate change, balking at potential government interference, thinking they can and should do everything by themselves and suspicious that this is a ploy for communist tyranny- leading to climate disasters, loss of property, poorer crop yields, etc... in the long run.
 
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If might be a chicken and egg thing. Hard to say if poverty creates worse health outcomes or vice versa. Poverty is a very complicated thing. It leads to all sorts of dysfunctional attitudes, culture, and mindsets ( ignorance, racism and bigotry, lack of emphasis on education, bad habits, etc,...) which in turn further propagate the poverty. It becomes a dangerous vicious cycle.

For example, the same people who might benefit from policies to help them might reject the help because of a misunderstanding or simplistic understanding of communism vs capitalism, and think that this may be a slippery slope to Soviet style communism. Those iwith the power and wealth may propagate such beliefs, thinking that they can so maintain their position of advantage in society, without thinking further ahead that a more fair society will also help them in the long term in absolute terms. They may reject the science on climate change, balking at potential government interference, thinking they can and should do everything by themselves and suspicious that this is a ploy for communist tyranny- leading to climate disasters, loss of property, poorer crop yields, etc... in the long run.

Poverty definitely created worse health outcomes.

But poverty does NOT.. lead to all sorts of dysfunctional attitudes..(ignorance, racism, bigotry lack of emphasis of education). This is a fallacy.

The difference is that when you are poor.. there are more and more severe CONSEQUENCES when a person has those attitudes.

A rich racist can become president of the US.

A poor racist might have a tough time keeping a job because of his attitudes towards coworkers.

A rich drug addicted person gets sympathy, rehab over and over, and possibly a reality tv show.

A poor drug addicted person gets incarcerated.
 
Poverty definitely created worse health outcomes.

But poverty does NOT.. lead to all sorts of dysfunctional attitudes..(ignorance, racism, bigotry lack of emphasis of education). This is a fallacy.

The difference is that when you are poor.. there are more and more severe CONSEQUENCES when a person has those attitudes.

A rich racist can become president of the US.

A poor racist might have a tough time keeping a job because of his attitudes towards coworkers.

A rich drug addicted person gets sympathy, rehab over and over, and possibly a reality tv show.

A poor drug addicted person gets incarcerated.

I don't know about that. For example, a poor person may not get a proper science education, and so may end up thinking that some Manhattan real estate guy's opinion on climate change science carries as much weight, if not more, than the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the planet, just because he has more charisma and can cuss good. So then eventually his home ends up under water, or his crops end up under water, or they just have poorer yield. And so he ends up even more poor. He loses his healthcare (for which he was convinced to fight hard to get rid of any safety nets for), and one medical catastrophe and his whole family are going to be ins serious trouble. So now he is even more poor yet, and he and his kids are going to be even more prone to propaganda, misinformation, and the exploitation of other charismatic individuals, which in turn creates a vicious cycle- a spiral of poverty whose undercurrents just keep sucking him down further and further.

www.amazon.com/Framework-Understand...ocphy=9008189&hvtargid=pla-780440564392&psc=1
 
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I don't know about that. For example, a poor person may not get a proper science education, and so may end up thinking that some Manhattan real estate guy's opinion on climate change science carries as much weight, if not more, than the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the planet, just because he has more charisma and can cuss good. So then eventually his home ends up under water, or his crops end up under water, or they just have poorer yield. And so he ends up even more poor. He loses his healthcare (for which he was convinced to fight hard to get rid of any safety nets for), and one medical catastrophe and his whole family are going to be ins serious trouble. So now he is even more poor yet, and he and his kids are going to be even more prone to propaganda, misinformation, and the exploitation of other charismatic individuals, which in turn creates a vicious cycle- a spiral of poverty whose undercurrents just keep sucking him down further and further.

www.amazon.com/Framework-Understand...ocphy=9008189&hvtargid=pla-780440564392&psc=1

And a rich person may not get a good science education as well. Think of the number of private.. expensive schools that don't teach the about evolution for a science perspective.

And if he is making his living as a farmer.. he is probably more aware of changing weather conditions etc.. than that manhattan real estate guys opinion. Besides.. it doesn't make a lick of difference to him because people still need to eat, he still needs to plant crops etc.

Despite some rich and supposedly educated wealthy socialite.. living in NYC.. who thinks food comes from a grocery store.. and doesn't have the faintest clue about the science of farming.. or climate change.. .

And wants the farmer to stop ranching, because of cow flatulence causing global warming.. because we have to save polar bears.

Meanwhile...

In terms of size, cities occupy only two percent of the world’s landmass. But in terms of climate impact, they leave an enormous footprint. Cities consume over two-thirds of the world’s energy and account for more than 70% of global CO2 emissions. And with 90 percent of the world’s urban areas situated on coastlines, cities are at high risk from some of the devastating impacts of climate change, such as rising sea levels and powerful coastal storms.
 
And a rich person may not get a good science education as well. Think of the number of private.. expensive schools that don't teach the about evolution for a science perspective.

And if he is making his living as a farmer.. he is probably more aware of changing weather conditions etc.. than that manhattan real estate guys opinion. Besides.. it doesn't make a lick of difference to him because people still need to eat, he still needs to plant crops etc.

Despite some rich and supposedly educated wealthy socialite.. living in NYC.. who thinks food comes from a grocery store.. and doesn't have the faintest clue about the science of farming.. or climate change.. .

And wants the farmer to stop ranching, because of cow flatulence causing global warming.. because we have to save polar bears.

Meanwhile...

So that's why the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet is wrong? Because a farmer spends more time outdoors?

That's like saying everyone who lived on Earth, for the entirety of human history, who thought the Earth was flat, has more credibility than the scientists who started saying it was round, because they spent their life on it.

See, this is a good example of what I mean. If that's what the farmer thinks, they better be ready for a big drop in their yield. It may take a few decades. But they are just shooting themselves in the foot, out of ignorance.
 
So that's why the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet is wrong? Because a farmer spends more time outdoors?

Nope. The real issue when it comes to climate change.. is not whether its happening or not. The question is 1. Is it man made and if man made by whom.

In other words.. is it from cow flatulence as the liberal NYC person states it is..


Or is it from the congregation of humans in cities that produce huge amounts of co2? As the science suggests.


And 2. what to do about it?


So you say.. "they better be ready for a big drop in their yield"... "OVER A FEW DECADES".


Did you hear yourself? So what that farmer to do? Decide to stop farming the ground that his family has farmed for the last 60 years... three generations. Land that's paid for. And then go try to farm in Chicago.. because decades from now.. that area will be the same temp as the southeast.. where he is now? Or switch crops now.. while he has all the equipment to farm his current crops?.

Farmers have so many other things.. from pest outbreaks.. to blights/infections of crops, soil issues, world markets and politics, water issues, etc.. that matter each and every year.. a heck of a lot more pressing.. than "in a few decades you may have a drop in yield.".

hat's like saying everyone who lived on Earth, for the entirety of human history, who thought the Earth was flat, has more credibility than the scientists who started saying it was round, because they spent their life on it.

Its interesting you bring this up. If you know the history of science.. you would know.. that it was the academics, the learned people.. (usually church leaders because they had the most education.. that read and spoke latin)… that thought the earth was flat.

The sailors? They are the ones that saw that the mast of a ship was always seen first over the horizon, and that as they got closer they saw more of the ship.

The plainsman herding animals out on the plains? They knew that you saw the tops of mountains first as you walked toward them. and so they knew the earth wasn't flat.

The real truth is that "science"..or scientists are often playing catch up and getting credit for observations and knowledge that people in the field.. have known for generations.
 
Last week The Commonwealth Fund released its 2019 Scorecard on State Health System Performance. It looks at how the 50 states + D.C. are doing on a number of different performance metrics.

The primary takeaway is perhaps that there's huge variation across the country. The top 5 best-performing states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Washington, and Connecticut) might as well exist in a different reality than the bottom 5 worst-performing states (Arkansas, Nevada, Texas, Oklahoma, and Mississippi). Something to keep in mind when considering comparisons of the performance of the U.S. internationally.

The Commonwealth Fund also produces international comparisons through its periodic "Mirror, Mirror" series. As an example, consider one of the indicators they use to rank nations on health care outcome: mortality amenable to health care:

2ef5idc.png


Lower mortality there is good because it presumably indicates your system is performing better at preventing the deaths it can.

That particular indicator also shows up in the state scorecards. As it turns out, there is a vast difference between the state that performs best on that metric, Minnesota (54.7 deaths per 100K), and the state that performs the worst, Mississippi (142.4 deaths per 100K). From Mississippi's score card:

2d9sai0.png


Now what do you notice?

One, that the U.S. average quoted here is way lower than what was used in the international comparison--that's odd and requires some explanation from The Commonwealth Fund.

Two, that the best-performing state is actually doing better than any of the countries used in the international comparison.

In fact, let's go to the map:

21mhgt5.png


All the light teal states are performing in line with or better than the top-performing nations in the international comparison (Australia, France, Norway, Sweden Switzerland).

The dark teal states are performing in line with the next tier of performers in the international comparison (Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the U.K.). And indeed if the numbers used in the state scorecards are accurate, that's where the U.S. average actually is: right around where Germany, the U.K., and New Zealand are performing.

But then we've got a number of states (in dark gray), clustered in the southeast, that perform way worse than the rest of the country and the rest of much of the developed world.

The performance gulf between Minnesota and Mississippi is a lot bigger than the gap between Minnesota and the performance of other nations with vastly different financing systems--indeed our 'best' states can hang with or surpass most of the leading international lights on a variety of metrics.

Very interesting.

I did some search for "uninsured".. to see if that could account for the difference in the south/southeast... but there are a lot of other states that have much higher rates of uninsured as well.. so that didn't look like a correlation.

I tried a search for African americans.. and that by eyeball, seemed to correlate some... (but not a lot)..

I tried a search of mapping minorities.. and that definitely didn't correlate.

I then tried poverty levels... and that seemed to correlate the best.

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2016/comm/cb16-158_poverty_map.html
 
Nope. The real issue when it comes to climate change.. is not whether its happening or not. The question is 1. Is it man made and if man made by whom.

In other words.. is it from cow flatulence as the liberal NYC person states it is..


Or is it from the congregation of humans in cities that produce huge amounts of co2? As the science suggests.

It's both. And it can be fixed.


And 2. what to do about it?

There are plenty of suggestions. Here's a bunch.

10 Solutions for Climate Change - Scientific American

But first we have to agree it's not just a Chinese hoax.

So you say.. "they better be ready for a big drop in their yield"... "OVER A FEW DECADES".


Did you hear yourself? So what that farmer to do? Decide to stop farming the ground that his family has farmed for the last 60 years...

He can start by denying that it's happening. Then the suggestions listed in the article above would be a good place to start. They have nothing to do with stopping farming, so you can relax about that.



Its interesting you bring this up. If you know the history of science.. you would know.. that it was the academics, the learned people.. (usually church leaders because they had the most education.. that read and spoke latin)… that thought the earth was flat.

Yes, science is always changing and growing and revising. That's why it's important to keep up. But that's no reason to dismiss the latest science.

The sailors? They are the ones that saw that the mast of a ship was always seen first over the horizon, and that as they got closer they saw more of the ship.

Nope. Most sailors, even after Columbus, were worried they were going to fall off the edge of the Earth.


The real truth is that "science"..or scientists are often playing catch up and getting credit for observations and knowledge that people in the field.. have known for generations.

OK. So next time I have a fever and I am worried about it being leukemia, do you recommend I go to a highly scientifically trained oncologist, or to a mom who deals with her sick kids all day? Is the oncologist just playing catch up and getting credit for observations and knowledge of the mom?
 
It's both. And it can be fixed.

So you say. The science isn't so sure. AND the how its fixed.. can have dramatic negative effects on peoples lives

There are plenty of suggestions. Here's a bunch.

Yes.... read them.. and then think about what the ramifications are for people.. their economy, their livelihood and their very families.. and then sell it to them that they need to say only have one child. or that lets say the government mandate that they can only have one child.

Or sell it to them, that they have to pick up and move closer to where they work when the reason they live so far from work is because they cannot afford to live where work is.

And sell them this.. when the consequences of doing such will be severe and right now.. and they should do this for some possible benefit a generation or two or three from now.

e can start by denying that it's happening. Then the suggestions listed in the article above would be a good place to start. They have nothing to do with stopping farming, so you can relax about that.

Ahh.. its this kind of ignorance that is displayed that hurts your credibility. NONE of it has to do with farming? What do you think irrigation pumps run on? I'll tell you.. electricity. What do you think harvestors, combines, beet trucks, etc.. run on? Fossil fuels...

Nope. Most sailors, even after Columbus, were worried they were going to fall off the edge of the Earth.
That's actually a myth.

The Columbus flat-earth myth perhaps originated with Washington Irving's 1828 biography of Columbus; there's no mention of this before that. His crew wasn't nervous about falling off the Earth.

Top 5 Misconceptions About Columbus

Is the oncologist just playing catch up and getting credit for observations and knowledge of the mom?

Actually yes. Interesting you say that..but that diagnosis is often made because the mom says things like " I know my son..this is not like him. I have seen colds and flu before but this is not like that"... and so on. Which is why the doctor determines the kid should be tested for leukemia.. .

Instead of assuming leukemia.. just because you have a fever.
 
So you say. The science isn't so sure. AND the how its fixed.. can have dramatic negative effects on peoples lives



Yes.... read them.. and then think about what the ramifications are for people.. their economy, their livelihood and their very families.. and then sell it to them that they need to say only have one child. or that lets say the government mandate that they can only have one child.

Or sell it to them, that they have to pick up and move closer to where they work when the reason they live so far from work is because they cannot afford to live where work is.

And sell them this.. when the consequences of doing such will be severe and right now.. and they should do this for some possible benefit a generation or two or three from now.



Ahh.. its this kind of ignorance that is displayed that hurts your credibility. NONE of it has to do with farming? What do you think irrigation pumps run on? I'll tell you.. electricity. What do you think harvestors, combines, beet trucks, etc.. run on? Fossil fuels...

That's actually a myth.



Top 5 Misconceptions About Columbus



Actually yes. Interesting you say that..but that diagnosis is often made because the mom says things like " I know my son..this is not like him. I have seen colds and flu before but this is not like that"... and so on. Which is why the doctor determines the kid should be tested for leukemia.. .

Instead of assuming leukemia.. just because you have a fever.

So let me get this straight. If you are suspecting cancer for any reason, would you see an oncologist or a mom?
 
So let me get this straight. If you are suspecting cancer for any reason, would you see an oncologist or a mom?

Why do you suspect cancer?

OR do you simply have a fever and think you have to go to see an oncologist.
 
Why do you suspect cancer?

OR do you simply have a fever and think you have to go to see an oncologist.

It can be for whatever reason. Let's say your family doctor is seeing a lump on my neck and has asked that I get it checked out by a specialist. Would you recommend I go see someone's mom instead? Because she has more hands-on real world experience?
 
It can be for whatever reason. Let's say your family doctor is seeing a lump on my neck and has asked that I get it checked out by a specialist. Would you recommend I go see someone's mom instead? Because she has more hands-on real world experience?

Nope. Because in that specific instance.. she does not have more hands on real world experience.. the doctor does.

So?

The point still stands.. that often science is catching up to what people in the field have observed for decades.

In addition..the other points also stand.. as I see you have not responded to the fact that sailors did not think they were going to fall off the earth.
 
Nope. Because in that specific instance.. she does not have more hands on real world experience.. the doctor does.

So?

The point still stands.. that often science is catching up to what people in the field have observed for decades.

So it turns out that most scientists, who have spent their entire careers on experience in the field studying the climate, are telling us that climate change is happening, that it's very risky, we humans are responsible, and we can do something about it. But people choose to believe a Manhattan real estate guy instead who tells them it's just a Chinese hoax. Why?

In addition..the other points also stand.. as I see you have not responded to the fact that sailors did not think they were going to fall off the earth.

Flat Earth beliefs still exist today. They were more prevalent in the past. You go back a way, and they were universal, even by people who spent all their time at sea. This included the Vikings.

"Even the most cursory historical survey shows that the idea that the Earth is flat has been a notion shared by an extraordinarily wide range of cultures and tied to vastly different metaphysical systems and cosmologies.

It was a common belief in ancient Greece, as well as in India, China and in a wide range of indigenous or “pre-state” cultures. Both the poets Homer and Hesiod described a flat Earth. This was maintained by Thales, considered by many one of the first philosophers, Lucretius, an avowed materialist, as well as Democritus, the founder of atomic theory.

The ancient Greek conception, in turn, has some parallels with that of early Egyptian and Mesopotamian thought, with both thinking that the Earth was a large disc surrounded by a gigantic body of water. The ancient Chinese were also virtually unanimous in their view of the Earth’s flatness, although – in this system – the heavens were spherical and the Earth was square.

A number of ancient Indian conceptions, common – with some degree of variation – to ancient Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism, tie their cosmography to botanical images, with the earth being comprised of four continents surrounding a mountain, akin to the way petals encircle the bud of a flower. Ancient Norse thought postulated a circular flat Earth surrounded by a sea inhabited by a giant serpent."
Flat Wrong: The Misunderstood History Of Flat Earth Theories | IFLScience
 
So it turns out that most scientists, who have spent their entire careers on experience in the field studying the climate, are telling us that climate change is happening, that it's very risky, we humans are responsible, and we can do something about it. But people choose to believe a Manhattan real estate guy instead who tells them it's just a Chinese hoax. Why?

Its an interesting phenomena. Probably for the same reason that a fellow can kill his mother and steal her firearms... and the response is that "we need background checks".

Regardless of studies that show that our 10 years of assault weapons bans, and high capacity magazine bans.. did not work... you still have a good portion of one political party clamoring for assault weapons bans and magazine bans.

I think it comes down to faith and belief .. whether faith in religious leaders.. or political ones.

And hate and fear: in those that are not of your religion..or political bent.

Its not a new phenomena.. as you describe.

Think of the number of Christians today. quite few right? And think of the bible. Now.. if 3 thousand years from now.. someone reads our bible and says..."see people in the 20th century believed that bush's could talk and that all humans are descended from two people. Not to mention that all earth creatures descend from a male and female of each species that floated around in a big boat.

Yes the flat earth is still around. But if you notice from your own link.. there is usually a religious/faith component to it.

The Vikings.. the ones that were actually seafaring.. knew better. Though I am sure that when it came to their religion... their religion may have had an alternative view.
 
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