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Thread: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

  1. #21
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It is EXACTLY what you said. At first, you said M4A was bad because it wouldn't cover as much as Medicare does (which is a lie you keep posting even though you know it's not true)

    Then, when I pointed out (for at least the 2nd time) that M4A covers MORE than Medicare does you argued that it was bad because it covers more.

    And then when I pointed out that you did this, your response was
    Nope.. I said that if you wanted to get the savings the proponents of M4A claimed.. then Medicare would have to be LESS than it covers now..OR pay providers less or both.. just like countries like Canada do.

    AS I said there is no free lunch despite what Medicare 4all proponents say.

    Bernies proposal.. which is not all medicare4all proposals... covers what medicare does to some extent.. its really not clear exactly what it covers or what would be covered under his proposal...

    YOU made the claim that it pays for more than what medicare pays for now... of course I asked you to link to it.. and you could not.

    However.. I stated... IF what you claim.. is that Bernies medicare4all is going to increase coverage and cover more... then either 1. Its not going to get the savings that he claims..
    or 2. There is going to have to be massive decreases in reimbursements to providers which means massive problems with the economy.

    That's what I said.... and the facts support my statement and not yours.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Nope.. I said that if you wanted to get the savings the proponents of M4A claimed.. then Medicare would have to be LESS than it covers now..OR pay providers less or both.. just like countries like Canada do.
    What you said is EXACTLY what I quoted you saying

    AS I said there is no free lunch despite what Medicare 4all proponents say.
    No proponent has said that there is a free lunch. It's just one of the many lies you keep telling


    Bernies proposal.. which is not all medicare4all proposals... covers what medicare does to some extent.. its really not clear exactly what it covers or what would be covered under his proposal...
    Sanders bill covers more than Medicare does and is clear. This is just two more of the many lies you keep telling

    YOU made the claim that it pays for more than what medicare pays for now... of course I asked you to link to it.. and you could not.
    Does Google not work for you?

    Why do you need a link? You just spoke about Sanders bill. So either you already read it (and lied about it) and so you don't need a link or you haven't read it but dishonestly make claims about it

    However.. I stated... IF what you claim.. is that Bernies medicare4all is going to increase coverage and cover more... then either 1. Its not going to get the savings that he claims..
    or 2. There is going to have to be massive decreases in reimbursements to providers which means massive problems with the economy.
    Is this a repeat of your hilarious "if we don't spend the money on health care, the money we save will just magically disappear ?

    But let's go back to the Sanders bill. Have you read it?

    If you have, why do you keep asking for a link?

    If not, then why do you keep telling lies about a bill you haven't read?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #23
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    ...Many, if not most of non-government medical insurance organization's contract out their collections of revenues and payment disbursement to enterprises specialized to perform those tasks. Those contractors perform much of the same services on behalf of governments' medical insurance organizations. Single payer basic medical insurance would provide some substantial reductions of USA's aggregate medical administrative expenditures. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Wrong on the last part. Single payer will not reduce the amount of medical administration needed.. in fact may make it worse.

    1. The most medical administration is needed generally for handling government claims.. Medicaid, VA and somewhere in there Medicare
    2. The volume of claims will increase..
    3. The handling of claims by Medicare is already outsourced to private insurance companies.
    jaeger19, we agree currently, many, if not most of non-government medical insurance organization's contract out their collections of revenues and payment disbursement to enterprises specialized to perform those tasks. Those contractors perform much of the same services on behalf of governments' medical insurance organizations.

    In the future, if collections and disbursements of all basic medical procedures would be covered by the federal single payer, only collections and disbursements for additional costs per individual patients would be applicable to only for patients having additional medical insurance not covered by the federal single payer for basic medical insurance. Non-government insurers and their contractors only service those additional non-basic costs.
    Why would you not believe that all basic medical costs covered by the federal single would not provide some reductions of aggregate government plus non-government administrative expenditures?

    Respectfully, Supposn

  4. #24
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    What you said is EXACTLY what I quoted you saying
    When quoted? Yes. Then you went on to claim I made statements that did not include the full text of what I said.

    No proponent has said that there is a free lunch. It's just one of the many lies you keep telling

    Sure they do.. heck its the lies you keep telling. Its going to reduce cost.. but be like Medicare.. wait.. not really like medicare.. but that's okay.. its going to reduce cost like Canada.. but its going to have more coverage than Canadian single payer. Wait.. its going to get rid of insurance companies.. and no more bills...

    Sorry sir..proponents aren't just pushing a free lunch... M4All is a proverbial unicorn

    Sanders bill covers more than Medicare does and is clear.
    Great.. please link to it.. specifically how his plan is paying for skilled nursing facilities and their pay schedule, how DME is paid for and that pay schedule, and how outpatient surgery centers are paid for, what codes a are billable etc.
    Does Google not work for you?
    Yep it does. I couldn't find the specifics that you claim are there. So I have asked you to link to those specifics.

    Is this a repeat of your hilarious "if we don't spend the money on health care, the money we save will just magically disappear ?
    Nope..nothing magical about it. Its exactly how the economy works. When thousands of healthcare workers are out of a job, and thousands are getting paid less. and GDP is reduced by 4-6%. . that's pretty much what happens. Nothing magical about it.

    But let's go back to the Sanders bill. Have you read it?

    Yep... which is why I know the specifics aren't there.

    Here is an excerpt :
    IN GENERAL.—Not later than one year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall submit to Congress a proposed plan for systematically and internally tracking its review of the relative values of physicians' services, such as by establishing an internal database, under section 1848(c)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(c)(2)), as amended by this section.
    Oh wait.. so according to the Bill I have..in a year after the bill is passed... THEN there will be a proposed plan for internally tracking the relative values of physicians services.
    The whole bill is filled with such language..

    (a) Application of Payment Processes under Title XVIII.—Except as otherwise provided in this section, the Secretary shall establish, by regulation, fee schedules that establish payment amounts for benefits under this Act in a manner that is consistent with processes for determining payments for items and services under title XVIII of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395 et seq.), including the application of the provisions of, and amendments made by, section 612.
    huh.." shall establish" ??? Wait.. I thought you said all the specifics were there??? Don't see them... so please link to those specifics there Sangha... cuz obviously.. Bill S1804 Medicare for All Act 2017. doesn't have them.

    If not, then why do you keep telling lies about a bill you haven't read?
    I am not the one telling lies here Sangha... so please provide the specifics.. because they aren't in the bill.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

  5. #25
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    When quoted? Yes. Then you went on to claim I made statements that did not include the full text of what I said.
    Yeah, you didn't say what I quoted you saying because I didn't quote everything you said!!

    Sure they do.. heck its the lies you keep telling. Its going to reduce cost.. but be like Medicare.. wait.. not really like medicare.. but that's okay.. its going to reduce cost like Canada.. but its going to have more coverage than Canadian single payer. Wait.. its going to get rid of insurance companies.. and no more bills...

    Sorry sir..proponents aren't just pushing a free lunch... M4All is a proverbial unicorn
    IOW, no one said that there's a free lunch. You lied again


    Great.. please link to it.. specifically how his plan is paying for skilled nursing facilities and their pay schedule, how DME is paid for and that pay schedule, and how outpatient surgery centers are paid for, what codes a are billable etc.
    Yep it does. I couldn't find the specifics that you claim are there. So I have asked you to link to those specifics.
    As I told you before, I am not here to cure your ignorance. I am here to mock it


    Nope..nothing magical about it. Its exactly how the economy works. When thousands of healthcare workers are out of a job, and thousands are getting paid less. and GDP is reduced by 4-6%. . that's pretty much what happens. Nothing magical about it.
    Yes, all the money people save is going to magically disappear. People will not spend the money they're going to not spend on health care.


    Yep... which is why I know the specifics aren't there.

    Here is an excerpt :

    Oh wait.. so according to the Bill I have..in a year after the bill is passed... THEN there will be a proposed plan for internally tracking the relative values of physicians services.
    The whole bill is filled with such language..
    Umm, you read it wrong. The plan is for internal tracking of THE REVIEWS of the relative values of physicians services.

    It's clear that the reason why you are unclear about the clarity of this Bill's provisions is your inability to understand what you have read


    huh.." shall establish" ??? Wait.. I thought you said all the specifics were there??? Don't see them... so please link to those specifics there Sangha... cuz obviously.. Bill S1804 Medicare for All Act 2017. doesn't have them.
    I never said all the specifics were there.

    Why do you constantly lie?


    I am not the one telling lies here Sangha... so please provide the specifics.. because they aren't in the bill.
    I have proven that you have repeatedly lied and if you want specifics, I refer to your lie that M4A coverage is less than Medicare's coverage

    And since you do have the link to Sanders M4A bill, why did you ask me for the link?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #26
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    jaeger19, we agree currently, many, if not most of non-government medical insurance organization's contract out their collections of revenues and payment disbursement to enterprises specialized to perform those tasks. Those contractors perform much of the same services on behalf of governments' medical insurance organizations.
    Yeah no... not really sure what you are talking about here. Insurance companies are not contracting out their collections of revenues and payment disbursements.

    Its private insurance companies that DO administer medicare and Medicaid..

    Having a single entity would not drastically reduce costs. For one..most billing that is done by hospitals etc.. is done in a standardized system that almost all insurance companies handle. Basically following Medicare process.

    That cost is basically the same per number of bills submitted. There really is no difference to the provider.. that cost is basically by volume.

    The costs to the provider are the extraneous billing costs that depend on insurance. Things like having to find the right codes for procedures.. submitting pre authorizations etc.
    Well.. government insurances.. like Medicaid.. and the VA.. are among the worst for those costs.

    Medicare.. falls in the middle somewhere for their hassles.

    So. there is no logic in believing that switching to all government single payer.. when its highly probable that single payer will have more hoops to jump through than average.. is going to decrease costs.

    The
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

  7. #27
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yeah, you didn't say what I quoted you saying because I didn't quote everything you said!!
    ?
    Yep. you lied by purposely admitting all of what I said.. so as to make it appear I said something I didn't.

    OW, no one said that there's a free lunch. You lied again
    nah.. you are lying. The evidence is clear. That's why you got all tuned up when I pointed out that its called MEDICARE... but then you claim.. "well that does not mean it has to be like medicare".

    Umm, you read it wrong. The plan is for internal tracking of THE REVIEWS of the relative values of physicians services.

    It's clear that the reason why you are unclear about the clarity of this Bill's provisions is your inability to understand what you have read

    Nope.. I read it right. You just don't know what it means. I gave you two examples.. of how there is no specifics on how things will be done.

    Sorry sir.. you just can't get around the facts.

    I never said all the specifics were there.

    Why do you constantly lie?
    You just lie constantly don't you.? You have no integrity.

    I have proven that you have repeatedly lied
    Nope..you have proven that the only liar here is you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    And since you do have the link to Sanders M4A bill, why did you ask me for the link?
    First.. I asked you to link to the SPECIFICS.. that you said where in the bill. Things like payment rates.. what is exactly paid for.. whats not.. how does it get paid etc.

    YOU kept saying that there were in the bill. I KNEW they were not..

    But yet there you were.. claiming over and over that the specifics were there.. and calling me a liar to boot. I was just really curious how long it would take before you actually did some research and tried to get the specifics.. and realized.. "oops.. they aren't there".

    Quite frankly.. its amusing to me to watch you repeatedly lie and then call have the audacity to accuse ME.. the one that's actually truthful.. of being a liar. Clinically..you are a fascinating case psychologically.

    Have a good day Sangha..
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

  8. #28
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Yep. you lied by purposely admitting all of what I said.. so as to make it appear I said something I didn't.
    Yeah, quoting what you actually said made it appear you said something you didn't.

    nah.. you are lying. The evidence is clear. That's why you got all tuned up when I pointed out that its called MEDICARE... but then you claim.. "well that does not mean it has to be like medicare".
    Umm, it's not called Medicare

    Nope.. I read it right. You just don't know what it means. I gave you two examples.. of how there is no specifics on how things will be done.

    Sorry sir.. you just can't get around the facts.
    The fact is you read it wrong


    You just lie constantly don't you.? You have no integrity.
    You can't quote me saying the bill contains every specific detail so you lie

    First.. I asked you to link to the SPECIFICS.. that you said where in the bill. Things like payment rates.. what is exactly paid for.. whats not.. how does it get paid etc.
    No, you asked for a link to the bill, (even though you already had the lunk) not specifics and I never said the bills included payment rates

    That's two more lies you've told

    YOU kept saying that there were in the bill. I KNEW they were not..

    But yet there you were.. claiming over and over that the specifics were there.. and calling me a liar to boot. I was just really curious how long it would take before you actually did some research and tried to get the specifics.. and realized.. "oops.. they aren't there".
    And yet, you can't quote me saying that
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #29
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    YOU made the claim that it pays for more than what medicare pays for now... of course I asked you to link to it.. and you could not.
    The above is the first time you asked me for a link in this thread. Note that your request has nothing to do with me making any claims about payment schedules.

    Now, supposedly, you have read the M4A bills. And you know that Medicare basically pays 80% and the individual covered has 20% co-insurance and that M4A is a "single payer " system, meaning that the government pays for 100%

    Which is better coverage? The plan that pays 100percent of your medical bills or the one that pays 80percent of your medical bills?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #30
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    Re: Republicans can't deal with medical care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    When quoted? Yes. Then you went on to claim I made statements that did not include the full text of what I said.



    Sure they do.. heck its the lies you keep telling. Its going to reduce cost.. but be like Medicare.. wait.. not really like medicare.. but that's okay.. its going to reduce cost like Canada.. but its going to have more coverage than Canadian single payer. Wait.. its going to get rid of insurance companies.. and no more bills...

    Sorry sir..proponents aren't just pushing a free lunch... M4All is a proverbial unicorn



    Great.. please link to it.. specifically how his plan is paying for skilled nursing facilities and their pay schedule, how DME is paid for and that pay schedule, and how outpatient surgery centers are paid for, what codes a are billable etc.
    Yep it does. I couldn't find the specifics that you claim are there. So I have asked you to link to those
    This is the 2nd time you asked me for a link. Though you do ask about pay schedules in this point, it should be noted that this is in response to a post of mine where I said NOTHING about pay schedules

    IOW, your claim that I said anything about pay schedules is just another one of the many lies you keep telling
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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