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Republicans can't deal with medical care.

HumblePi said:
Some candidates like Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris are in favor of people keeping their private health insurance if they choose to do so.

Here's a more thorough analysis of their stance on health care.

This is where the 2020 presidential hopefuls stand on health care
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Many people who are uninsured or who bounce from plan to plan every year in the non-group market may never have had a regular doctor or hospital, and the uninsured may be more worried about paying for health coverage that they are now legally required to buy than about having a broad choice of providers. Often, the price difference between broad- and narrow-network plans is substantial. A McKinsey study put it at 26%. It can be even larger.
 
Praxas said:
Keep dreaming con, it’s all you have since your fantasy land ideas are just that....fantasy con. There is a reason CON is in CONservative.
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And there's a reason why CRAP is in DemoCRAP. [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
 
American said:
And there's a reason why CRAP is in DemoCRAP. [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
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No, that’s just your lousy spelling again. :lamo
 
TL8 said:
It already is free. Just because you don't have health insurance doesn't mean that you can't get medical treatment. You just have to go to the ER to get it. The more uninsured patients there are, the longer you can expect your ER waiting times to be.
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Not to mention, on TOP OF overwhelming ER facilities, shunting all the indigent and illegal off to the ER for care is ridiculously expensive, which results in hospitals shunting the costs onto everyone else in the form of inflated bills and insurance premiums for everyone.

Offering care, ordinary medical care, with ordinary doctors in the ordinary sections of a clinic or hospital, cuts those costs by a factor of five because ER care IS five times costlier than routine ordinary care.
Going to the ER for the flu or a urinary tract infection is an exorbitant waste of money.

If you want medical care to cost less overall, taking some of the "EMTALA" strain and pressure off the ER's is a mighty simple way to move in that direction.
 
Stuartbirdman said:
The Supreme Court's decision to take up the challenge likely won't have a significant effect on the marketplaces. After several years of turbulence, most insurers are turning a profit, resulting in growing competition and relatively modest premium hikes and decreases this year. Early signs suggest a similar pattern for 2020 plans.
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Stuartbirdman. what case regarding medical insurance that the U.S. Supreme Court's decided to hear, wouldn't have some significant effect on medical insurance marketplaces? Even when they clear their throats, it can be of some significance.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Not to mention, on TOP OF overwhelming ER facilities, shunting all the indigent and illegal off to the ER for care is ridiculously expensive, which results in hospitals shunting the costs onto everyone else in the form of inflated bills and insurance premiums for everyone.

Offering care, ordinary medical care, with ordinary doctors in the ordinary sections of a clinic or hospital, cuts those costs by a factor of five because ER care IS five times costlier than routine ordinary care.
Going to the ER for the flu or a urinary tract infection is an exorbitant waste of money.

If you want medical care to cost less overall, taking some of the "EMTALA" strain and pressure off the ER's is a mighty simple way to move in that direction.
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Just so you know.. its really not true that ER care is five times costlier than routine ordinary care. Going to the ER for the flu or UTI.. is not an "exorbitant waste of money"...


this is really a bit of hooey. Think about it.. WHY is it more costly? What makes a doctor seeing you more expensive in the ER. or a PA.. and saying... its a UTI after doing a dip test.. and writing a prescription.. than if its done in a outpatient clinic?

Where is the ACTUAL expense? The actual cost to the hospital is the same. the doctor costs the same, the nurse time the same, the UTI test the same?

IT really doesn't cost more.

Its just more problematic to take up ER time that could be spent with more difficult cases.. but that's only if the ER is being overloaded with patients. If not.. its not that problematic.
 
jaeger19 said:
Just so you know.. its really not true that ER care is five times costlier than routine ordinary care. Going to the ER for the flu or UTI.. is not an "exorbitant waste of money"...


this is really a bit of hooey. Think about it.. WHY is it more costly? What makes a doctor seeing you more expensive in the ER. or a PA.. and saying... its a UTI after doing a dip test.. and writing a prescription.. than if its done in a outpatient clinic?

Where is the ACTUAL expense? The actual cost to the hospital is the same. the doctor costs the same, the nurse time the same, the UTI test the same?

IT really doesn't cost more.

Its just more problematic to take up ER time that could be spent with more difficult cases.. but that's only if the ER is being overloaded with patients. If not.. its not that problematic.
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WTF?

I thought you were in the healthcare business.

I’ll give you an example that I saw a bit ago.

Kid goes to the ED with Mono - throat swollen so he can’t swallow.

This should be simple- shot of methlpred, antibiotics maybe, and observe til the steroids kick in.

He goes in- IV access started and a few bags of saline infused. Then IV abx started...because that’s what you do in an ED. And then cultures. And repeat mono test to be sure. And as long as you’re drawing blood, get a CBC and Chem7. Then, get a chest X-ray because... one needs to cover your ass. Then get an ENT consult and get a throat scope- just to be safe. 8 hours later, after a full shift of nursing and physician care, phlebotomy and an ED bed, kid is discharged.

That’s a ton more money and a ton more CYA care than showing up to an urgent care center, getting an IM shot of steroids, and oral prescriptions to take home.
 
Threegoofs said:
WTF?

I thought you were in the healthcare business.

I’ll give you an example that I saw a bit ago.

Kid goes to the ED with Mono - throat swollen so he can’t swallow.

This should be simple- shot of methlpred, antibiotics maybe, and observe til the steroids kick in.

He goes in- IV access started and a few bags of saline infused. Then IV abx started...because that’s what you do in an ED. And then cultures. And repeat mono test to be sure. And as long as you’re drawing blood, get a CBC and Chem7. Then, get a chest X-ray because... one needs to cover your ass. Then get an ENT consult and get a throat scope- just to be safe. 8 hours later, after a full shift of nursing and physician care, phlebotomy and an ED bed, kid is discharged.

That’s a ton more money and a ton more CYA care than showing up to an urgent care center, getting an IM shot of steroids, and oral prescriptions to take home.
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I own a healthcare business.

And yep.. what you said could happen in an ER.

And it could happen in a urgent care center just the same if they are 1. looking to increase reimbursement

or 2. doing defensive medicine.

There is nothing in your post that suggests that by design.. the kid with mono.. is inherently more costly in an ER than an urgent care facility.
 
jaeger19 said:
I own a healthcare business.

And yep.. what you said could happen in an ER.

And it could happen in a urgent care center just the same if they are 1. looking to increase reimbursement

or 2. doing defensive medicine.

There is nothing in your post that suggests that by design.. the kid with mono.. is inherently more costly in an ER than an urgent care facility.
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That ridiculous. In urgent care, one doesn’t have a roaming ENT team to scope throats. It doesn’t have multiple, expensive nurses giving constant care, etc.
 
Threegoofs said:
That ridiculous. In urgent care, one doesn’t have a roaming ENT team to scope throats. It doesn’t have multiple, expensive nurses giving constant care, etc.
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No its not ridiculous. First.. there are rarely "roaming ENT teams".. to "scope throats"..in the ER. They are based in the hospital and whether the referral comes from the ER.. or the referral comes from the urgent care.. if it was ordered.. it could be done.

And as far as multiple expensive nurses. It takes one nurse giving a modicum of time to this kid.. the same in the ER.. the same in the urgent care area.

Its mono.. the need for care is exactly the same. Now whether one entity wants to create more reimbursement or do more defensive medicine is an issue.. but an urgent care could do the same as well as a ER.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yep… go look at the articles.. they aren't discussing actual COST.. they are discussing the CHARGES.. that the ER does.

Two different animals.
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Mister you can split hairs all day long but at the end of the day, we the taxpayers are paying five times as much because it is the ER supplying way too much of what SHOULD be routine care.
You gotta beef with cost versus charge? Then you run a hospital and run their ER and then you may wind up learning WHY they charge more.
But the fact remains that ER care is a waste of money compared to routine care.

This argument about cost versus charge is like arguing about WHY gasoline costs more at the pump than it does at the refinery, or why legal pot from a dispensary costs more than a lid you got from the friendly dealer guy you knew for twenty years, or why an automobile costs more purchased from a car dealer than it would if you purchased it directly from Toyota or Ford at the factory.

I drink sugar-free powdered iced tea all day long.
You don't think I'd prefer to do away with all the stupid little packets it comes dispensed in? You don't think I'd prefer to just go buy it by the five pound can minus the little packets? You can buy powdered LEMONADE that way, you can buy GATORADE that way but sugar free powdered iced tea does not exist IN BULK cans. Go look for yourself if you don't believe me!

I use a phenylephrinine based nose spray occasionally for my sinus problems. I don't use it every single day (about once every three days) but when my nose clamps up as tight as a drum, I cannot breathe and therefore I better have my little spray bottle handy.
I can only buy the stuff by the one ounce bottle, for about six bucks.
I'd save a ton of money if I could buy a five gallon jug of it and fill my little spray bottles myself.

Go help a brother out and find me a source for five gallon containers of phenylephrinine spray.
I'll pay you a one hundred dollar finder's fee if you can.
But you CAN'T, I guarantee you, because if it existed I would have found it long ago because I've been carrying around nose spray for twenty years.
 
jaeger19 said:
I own a healthcare business.

And yep.. what you said could happen in an ER.

And it could happen in a urgent care center just the same if they are 1. looking to increase reimbursement

or 2. doing defensive medicine.

There is nothing in your post that suggests that by design.. the kid with mono.. is inherently more costly in an ER than an urgent care facility.
Click to expand...

A very good friend of ours also owns a healthcare business.
She is a Medicare supplier of catheters for pars and quads and she contracts out to the VA.
ABC Home Medical is her company, and she drives a nice Lamborghini.
She works hard so I don't begrudge her such a luxury.

Is that the kind of healthcare business you own?
 
jaeger19 said:
No its not ridiculous. First.. there are rarely "roaming ENT teams".. to "scope throats"..in the ER. They are based in the hospital and whether the referral comes from the ER.. or the referral comes from the urgent care.. if it was ordered.. it could be done.

And as far as multiple expensive nurses. It takes one nurse giving a modicum of time to this kid.. the same in the ER.. the same in the urgent care area.

Its mono.. the need for care is exactly the same. Now whether one entity wants to create more reimbursement or do more defensive medicine is an issue.. but an urgent care could do the same as well as a ER.
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[emoji849]

You really should visit an ED one day.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Mister you can split hairs all day long but at the end of the day, we the taxpayers are paying five times as much because it is the ER supplying way too much of what SHOULD be routine care.
.
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Nah.. not really. AS I point out.

You gotta beef with cost versus charge? Then you run a hospital and run their ER and then you may wind up learning WHY they charge more.
But the fact remains that ER care is a waste of money compared to routine care.
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Well considering I own a number of hospital systems and we have ER's.. as well as urgent care centers and quick care centers.. SNFS, outpatient facilities in several states.... Yep.. I know exactly why we charge more for the ER.. but the reality is.. the COST of that person going to the ER with a cold.. is the same COST to treat them.

A cold is a cold. It requires a person to admit them..in both facilities... a person to do the initial testing.. (nurse generally) in both facilities.. and a NP, Doctor or PA to make a diagnosis. Same in both facilities.. and the time involved is the same. The cost is virtually identical.


The reason you are charged more when you go to the ER.. is because the ER has more overhead.. it has to pay for all the equipment that's available to you.. whether you need it or not.

Its the same reason that a hospital MRI..is going to cost more than one in an outpatient MRI facility. Because the cost of that availability of equipment and staff.. beds etc.. is shifted to those things that are getting paid for.. like MRI.

This argument about cost versus charge is like arguing about WHY gasoline costs more at the pump than it does at the refinery,
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Nah.. its not.. because its an important distinction.. that is extremely relevant for healthcare costs. See... the importance of that distinction.. is that the savings to be had… is NOT by having these people go to urgent care.. rather than the ER. In fact.. there is probably MORE cost..because NOW..you have two facilities.. versus one.

The real savings in cost when it comes to urgent care versus the ER... is when you PREVENT... someone from NEEDING.. ER services... because a patient had access to healthcare insurance... so they could go trot into the urgent care and get their cold taken care of... before they ended up in the ER.. with pneumonia and needed tremendously more care.

Hey… but why should we discuss facts and logic... when you can rant on about nose spray!!!..
 
Threegoofs said:
[emoji849]

You really should visit an ED one day.
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Just did today. We own several.

And urgent cares..and outpatient physician clinics.. etc.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
A very good friend of ours also owns a healthcare business.
She is a Medicare supplier of catheters for pars and quads and she contracts out to the VA.
ABC Home Medical is her company, and she drives a nice Lamborghini.
She works hard so I don't begrudge her such a luxury.

Is that the kind of healthcare business you own?
Click to expand...

I own several healthcare systems.. from hospitals to SNF's and long term care.
 
Crystal said:
We need to get off progressive taxation. It’s not fair for the 50% who pay no federal taxes to keep screaming about taxing the rich. We need a fair flat tax that everyone pays no exceptions. The rich will still pay more than you but you will stop yelling for increases. I like it.
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I like the flat tax plan but mine is a little different.

Tax rate whatever is required to balance the federal budget each year and pay off a percentage of the federal debt.

If your representatives cut spending you get a tax cut. If they increase spending your taxes go up.

No more payroll taxes. Everything comes out of the flat tax.

No more witholding. Everybody has to sit down quarterly and write a check to the IRS. That way you really see what you are paying in taxes.

First $35,000 is exempt to taxes

All income earned and unearned or anything else is taxed at the same rate.

Probably some i left out but that is a good start.
 
jaeger19 said:
Its just more problematic to take up ER time that could be spent with more difficult cases.. but that's only if the ER is being overloaded with patients. If not.. its not that problematic.
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Would you want to wait behind people who are sick when you are having a health issue that needs to be addressed in a timely fashion?
 
TL8 said:
Would you want to wait behind people who are sick when you are having a health issue that needs to be addressed in a timely fashion?
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Its kind of the nature of the beast that I wait behind people that are sick... in an ER.. you are triaged.. in other words.. those that are the sickest.. get helped first.
 
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