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Thread: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

  1. #91
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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Actually yes.. that's what the studied showed.. that it was comparing apples to apples during that time.

    Of course. you are just sniping from the sidelines.. because we know that you would have NO problem declaring... "look at the savings Canada, Britain.. etc get from their single payer"... as if their healthcare costs/ demographics are the same... Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System
    The study showed that the only difference between Canada's economy and ours is that Canada has single payer?

    Why do you tell such obvious lies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #92
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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    The difference between Canada and US bankruptcies is not just health care. For example Canada was experiencing major attack of pine beetles which caused major job losses in th Canadian lumber industry. When people lose their jobs they often go bankrupt. That is just one example of differences in making such a generalized comparison. It's not valid.
    Sure its valid. The study controlled for such economic issues. They simply could not control for the size of the economic meltdown in the US housing market in later years. . Nope..its valid. You just don't like the outcome.

    I am sure that if the study found that Canada.. had much less bankruptcy.. you would be crowing about how wonderful single payer is. And how its going to stop the bankruptcy in the US.. just like in Canada.

    And the article I linked to.. showed other facts.... like the fact that even when medical reasons are listed in US bankruptcy... actual medical debt is a very small portion of the debt the person had. Other consumer debt was far and away a bigger factor.

    Sorry but the evidence is clear. Medical bankruptcy due to medical bills is largely a myth. The real issue in medical issues is the loss of income that occurs when someone is sick. Either loss of income from the sick person not working.. or because of loss of income from caregivers.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The study showed that the only difference between Canada's economy and ours is that Canada has single payer?

    Why do you tell such obvious lies?
    I don't lie. It compared apples to apples by controlling for such things...


    Look.. you obviously don't like actual facts and evidence. You won't accept the truth.. despite it being spoon fed to you.


    Trying to call other people liars.. when your faults are glaring..is just sad.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I don't lie. It compared apples to apples by controlling for such things...


    Look.. you obviously don't like actual facts and evidence. You won't accept the truth.. despite it being spoon fed to you.


    Trying to call other people liars.. when your faults are glaring..is just sad.
    Why did it control for differences if the only difference is that Canada has single payer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Why did it control for differences if the only difference is that Canada has single payer?
    You have to work really hard to be as obtuse as you are being.

    They controlled for differences.. so that when they were comparing it would be apples to apples. SO.. they controlled for those differences by using years in which the Canadian economy and the US economy were similar AND when the laws governing bankruptcy were similar as well.

    When then did that.. comparing apples to apples.. the only difference would be single payer... And what they found is it made no difference in bankruptcies.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    You have to work really hard to be as obtuse as you are being.

    They controlled for differences.. so that when they were comparing it would be apples to apples. SO.. they controlled for those differences by using years in which the Canadian economy and the US economy were similar AND when the laws governing bankruptcy were similar as well.

    When then did that.. comparing apples to apples.. the only difference would be single payer... And what they found is it made no difference in bankruptcies.
    If you want to believe a propaganda group backed by the Koch brothers and tobacco companies that argued that tobacco doesn't cause cancer, that's your choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #97
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    Re: Key Design Components and Considerations for Establishing a Single-Payer Health Care System

    QUOTE=sangha;1070120746]If you want to believe a propaganda group backed by the Koch brothers and tobacco companies that argued that tobacco doesn't cause cancer, that's your choice.[/QUOTE]

    Yawn..nice try... look the evidence is clear... and its not just coming from "propaganda group backed by the Koch brothers".

    The evidence is clear.. Even the very research that Himmelstein.. who declared that bankruptcy from medical bills was so prevalent, even his very research showed that ACTUAL medical debt was a very small percentage of the persons actual debt.

    Look.. I get it. you are mad because your faith has been shown to be wrong by the evidence. I understand that you won't listen to facts, or logic or the truth.

    IF you want.. you are free to believe that:

    1. Medicare for All... will give us the savings like other countries... when the benefits in medicare for all (presented by Bernie) are much much higher than what other countries cover.
    2. Private insurance companies will be taken out of the picture.. even though... 1. Currently about 60% of private insurance company revenue is actually from administering public plans like Medicare.. and 2. Almost all other countries have private insurance companies to cover those things that their single payer won't pay for

    3. That economically Medicare for all is a free lunch. That cutting 4-6 % of GDP (i.e cutting healthcare).. won't have a negative effect on the economy. Especially when healthcare is not easily outsourced.. is made up of a lot of non profits.. and healthcare is now one of the premier source of jobs in the economy. BUT.. according to you.. cutting it will not have any negative effects.. GDP decreasing by 4-6%.. which is more than the great recession... will magiacally be made somewhere else.


    4. That Medicare for ALL is going to replace Medicaid and be wonderful for poor people... Except that 1. Medicaid actually pays for much more than Medicare pays for.. for example it pays for long term care for elderly.. in nursing homes, in assisted livings. for long term home care... so if you get rid of Medicaid...what happens to the elderly and children that get these services from Medicaid.

    AND 2. Medicaid in most states pays for a lot more than medicare..in that it usually doesn't have a copay.. where medicare partB has a 20% copay. Medicaid usually pays 100% for medications... while Medicare part D... only pays a portion.

    Have a nice day sangha.


    So hey.. that's just a short list of the BS that you have been told by those pushing medicare for all... but hey.. isn't it better for you to remain ignorant?
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
    Vegas Giants: "Sounds fantastic!"

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