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Nikki Haley tells us how we won’t like what Finland says about their Health Care

jaeger19 said:
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Actually the point being that no one here really is bankrupted for their medical care. Its not their medical bills that cause the bankruptcy.. its the lack of income that is associated with being really ill.
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Do you have any links for this claim? Because I can show you many supporting the opposite contention.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

And even if true, people lose jobs and businesses all the time. No it’s not because they didn’t work hard enough or are not smart enough. The price should not be death for them and their whole family on the streets.
 
Manc Skipper said:
You were waving a supposed "only 11%" (without evidence) which is a lot more than "nobody"
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No.. it is nobody.

Okay... so.. you declare medical bankruptcy.. because your lost your job because you suffered a heart attack and can't work anymore. You have 100,000 dollars in debt.

11,000 is in medical bills.. and the other 79,000 in debt is from consumer spending.

Are you going to contend that the reason you need relief. is really because you can't afford 11,000 but you COULD pay off the other 79,000?

yeah.. no.

and the real reason that you are declaring bankruptcy.. is that your income has dropped because you can't work.

IF you had no medical bills at all... you would still be declaring medical bankruptcy.
 
sangha said:
The truth makes me feel better. I hope you could say the same someday
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Well..if you feel better about not being able to refute what I said...More power to you.
 
ataraxia said:
Do you have any links for this claim? Because I can show you many supporting the opposite contention.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

And even if true, people lose jobs and businesses all the time. No it’s not because they didn’t work hard enough or are not smart enough. The price should not be death for them and their whole family on the streets.
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Sure.. in fact.. I have presented this to you multiple times.

Here is one but it cites 12-13%.. is medical debt...

The Medical Bankruptcy Myth | Fraser Institute
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure.. in fact.. I have presented this to you multiple times.

Here is one but it cites 12-13%.. is medical debt...

The Medical Bankruptcy Myth | Fraser Institute
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so you offer an article from AEI, an author with unknown credentials, and assumptions that are meaningless to insist that medical bankruptcy is not significant in the USA
that crap will not flush
 
justabubba said:
so you offer an article from AEI, an author with unknown credentials, and assumptions that are meaningless to insist that medical bankruptcy is not significant in the USA
that crap will not flush
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Nope.. I offered an article that reference actual research studies and were they come from in them... that summarized why medical bankruptcy in America is NOT about medical bills.

Here is an example:

Dranove and Millenson critically analyzed the data from the 2005 edition of the medical bankruptcy study. They found that medical spending was a contributing factor in only 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies. They also reviewed other research, including studies by the Department of Justice, finding that medical debts accounted for only 12 percent to 13 percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
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jaeger19 said:
Nope.. I offered an article that reference actual research studies and were they come from in them... that summarized why medical bankruptcy in America is NOT about medical bills.

Here is an example:
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show us the Dranove and Millenson study and not some uncredentialed person's opinion of it
thus far, you have offered nothing which defends your position
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure.. in fact.. I have presented this to you multiple times.

Here is one but it cites 12-13%.. is medical debt...

The Medical Bankruptcy Myth | Fraser Institute
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The Fraser Institute is widely known to be a conservative/libertarian think tank. Not to say that makes them wrong. But when what they are claiming goes against what every other source is saying, it should be questioned.

Thailand, once they instituted a system of universal healthcare, immediately lost their entire category of "extreme poverty" in their country. In turns out most people who were falling into that category were people, as well as their entire extended families, who were uninsured and suffered a catastrophic medical illness. The kids would drop out of school to work and support the family too, ensuring that the entire next generation also would not get an education and live in poverty. After their universal healthcare system was instituted, not only did they eliminate extreme poverty in their country, but their public health also improved dramatically by just about every measure. A double bonus.

www.theguardian.com/health-revoluti...-healthcare-ucs-patients-government-political
 
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justabubba said:
what study did i proffer?
the study i cited was the one described in the AEI article you referenced
do you read your own cites?
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The study was the one in which your article drew the conclusion that medical bankruptcy was a common occurrence because of medical bills.

I guess the question is here. do you read your own citations?
 
ataraxia said:
The Fraser Institute is widely known to be a conservative/libertarian think tank. Not to say that makes them wrong. But when what they are claiming goes against what every other source is saying, it should be questioned.

]
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Actually though..what they are claiming isn't going against what every other credible source is saying. That's why the article was able to post a number of research articles that show that very thing.. and some of the credible sources are government research into bankruptcy itself.

And in fact.. you just gave a good point.

Thailand, once they instituted a system of universal healthcare, immediately lost their entire category of "extreme poverty" in their country. In turns out most people who were falling into that category were people, as well as their entire extended families, who were uninsured and suffered a catastrophic medical illness. The kids would drop out of school to work and support the family too, ensuring that the entire next generation also would not get an education and live in poverty.
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Right.. so when folks get ill..the family loses income and that's what causes the real problem

Look,, We need to get to universal healthcare coverage. Everyone should have health insurance.. in fact..we need a mandate to that effect.

The question is HOW we do it? We have about 10% of folks without insurance. So.. do we do a system that screws 90% of americans to get that 10% coverage.

Which is what many of the liberal proposals do.

Or do we do something that gets that 10% of folks to have insurance..and makes insurance better for everyone.

You tend to make all sorts of assumptions about other countries insurances.. without understanding that there are consequences and trade offs. And there is no free lunch here.

Look..if you don't want to believe me.. because you freak out because I have a conservative lean.. fine.. Greenbeard has had a huge number of extremely informative posts and threads about other countries and the differences between them and America and the ramifications and consequences.. very real consequences of going to one of their systems.
 
Back to Finland. Maternal deaths in Finland are 3.8 per 100,000. The US figure is 26 per 100.000.

This in a country currently passing state laws forcing women to carry a fetus to term. Atlanta Georgia and Indiana are three such, where the maternal risk is high.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Back to Finland. Maternal deaths in Finland are 3.8 per 100,000. The US figure is 26 per 100.000.

This in a country currently passing state laws forcing women to carry a fetus to term. Atlanta Georgia and Indiana are three such, where the maternal risk is high.
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So this is the fault of the US medical system? Please explain
 
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