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Thread: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Which leaves seniors, children and the disabled without healthcare insurance.
    Yep, just as eliminating SNAP harms those who now get that benefit. Unlike SNAP, M4A does not allow the "customer" to shop where they please. This whole line of conversation (which you have now entered into) was in response to those objecting tp M4A being willing to get rid of Medicare (as it now exists).
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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    Every other country on the planet has vastly cheaper healthcare than we do, for developed nations they average 2 1/2 times less, for developing nations its even less. Nearly all developed governments spend less than our does on healthcare and also cover the entire population. So universal healthcare can't bankrupt us. This isn't some imaginary utopia, this is a reality for the rest of the developed world.
    What are the tax rates in those other countries? How much do they spend on illegal aliens? How much do they spend on policing world peace? How many non-working poor people do they have in their government welfare system? They may be saving money the US is not saving so they can spend money on things the US is not spending money on.

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    What are the tax rates in those other countries? How much do they spend on illegal aliens? How much do they spend on policing world peace? How many non-working poor people do they have in their government welfare system? They may be saving money the US is not saving so they can spend money on things the US is not spending money on.
    Those countries' government spend less on healthcare than we do. Their higher tax rates are due to much larger non-healthcare welfare systems, not universal healthcare.

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Renae View Post
    It's not sustainable in it's current form, the solution is cost cutting, more rationing and higher taxes.
    The solution is higher taxes because you can't keep the same healthcare costs when the population is getting older and fatter. We basically have healthcare tax increases every year by health premium increases and rising deductibles. But again, they spend a fraction of what do we on healthcare and that will continue to be true even if they raise taxes, their governments spend less on universal healthcare than we do on Medicare and Medicaid, their healthcare costs are increasing less rapidly than ours, and their effective healthcare quality is about the same as ours.

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    Those countries' government spend less on healthcare than we do. Their higher tax rates are due to much larger non-healthcare welfare systems, not universal healthcare.
    They likely do not spend a lot of money defending the world from maniacs. They likely control their politicians better so the crooks in office do not find ways to throw billions of loose dollars at their friends and supporters and favorite causes. They likely do not encourage train car loads of immigrants to invade the US where they will not be legally allowed to work and will have to depend on the American taxpayers to take care of them. And so forth.

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    The solution is higher taxes because you can't keep the same healthcare costs when the population is getting older and fatter. We basically have healthcare tax increases every year by health premium increases and rising deductibles. But again, they spend a fraction of what do we on healthcare and that will continue to be true even if they raise taxes, their governments spend less on universal healthcare than we do on Medicare and Medicaid, their healthcare costs are increasing less rapidly than ours, and their effective healthcare quality is about the same as ours.
    Socialism is great till you start running out of other peoples money....
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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Renae View Post
    Socialism is great till you start running out of other peoples money....
    Not going to run out. Their governments pay less for healthcare than ours do.

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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    Those countries' government spend less on healthcare than we do. Their higher tax rates are due to much larger non-healthcare welfare systems, not universal healthcare.
    Yeah no.. they may spend less as a country on healthcare.. but a larger percentage of their healthcare spending is done by their government. Plus.. part of the way they get their savings is through cost shifting.

    So while they spend less in healthcare...that's in part because for example.. they pick up the tab for their physicians and nurses etc.. education. In America.. the government doesn't pay for our education.. so that cost is passed on to our consumers...

    In other countries.. they simply push that cost onto their education system.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Yeah no.. they may spend less as a country on healthcare.. but a larger percentage of their healthcare spending is done by their government. Plus.. part of the way they get their savings is through cost shifting.

    So while they spend less in healthcare...that's in part because for example.. they pick up the tab for their physicians and nurses etc.. education. In America.. the government doesn't pay for our education.. so that cost is passed on to our consumers...

    In other countries.. they simply push that cost onto their education system.
    You know, my BILL for my Gastric sleeve was around 100k.
    But between me and Ins only 14k was paid.
    I wonder if that SUPER EXPENSIVE cost the USA is claimed to be paying is actually what's paid vs what's billed
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    Re: Debunkers VS Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Renae View Post
    You know, my BILL for my Gastric sleeve was around 100k.
    But between me and Ins only 14k was paid.
    I wonder if that SUPER EXPENSIVE cost the USA is claimed to be paying is actually what's paid vs what's billed
    Its actually whats paid.

    But you bring up a important subject.

    For the last two decades.. we keep hearing how we have to lower the cost of healthcare...

    and interestingly we have been lowering or controlling the cost of healthcare (while demand has boomed).. from the balanced budget act to Obamacare.

    But the fact is.. most people don't pay the cost of healthcare... they pay the cost of healthcare insurance.

    So who benefits from the lower cost of healthcare? Insurance companies.. and if there is not enough competition... then there is no reason to pass any savings on to their consumers.. you and I
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
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