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Cataloging Trump's Sabotage

code1211 said:
Sure he is.

More Americans employed right now than at any point in history.

Highest average wage rate for Americans in history.

Increase in personal wealth for Americans by about 9 Trillion Dollars.

Reduction of the pages of Federal Regulation by about 35 thousand pages.

Tax cut that increased my personal take-home by about 20% while increasing the revenue for the Feds.

Increasing the number of manufacturing jobs: Obama said this was impossible and that anyone would need a magic wand to get this done.

How's your 401K doing?
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Right... Trump just says crap. Anyone can do that. Even you, see?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No it wouldn’t, no one would’ve been stripped of coverage, millions would opt not to buy coverage and in fact this is what’s happening. You liberals always love to “run to the gun” to enforce your wishes, guess what millions don’t wish to buy Obamacare. Deal with it, this is a voluntary choice
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Ah yes, the sweet sweet "voluntary choice" of the Trump bill:

Community-rated premiums would rise over time, and people who are less healthy (including those with preexisting or newly acquired medical conditions) would ultimately be unable to purchase comprehensive nongroup health insurance at premiums comparable to those under current law, if they could purchase it at all—despite the additional funding that would be available under H.R. 1628 to help reduce premiums. As a result, the nongroup markets in those states would become unstable for people with higher-than-average expected health care costs. That instability would cause some people who would have been insured in the nongroup market under current law to be uninsured.
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Over time, it would become more difficult for less healthy people (including people with preexisting medical conditions) in those states to purchase insurance because their premiums would continue to increase rapidly.
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People living in states modifying the EHBs who used services or benefits no longer included in the EHBs would experience substantial increases in out-of-pocket spending on health care or would choose to forgo the services.
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Although the agencies expect that the legislation would increase the number of uninsured broadly, the increase would be disproportionately larger among older people with lower income—particularly people between 50 and 64 years old with income of less than 200 percent of the federal poverty level . . . For older people with lower income, net premiums would be much larger than under current law, on average.
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However, the agencies estimate that about one-sixth of the population resides in areas in which the nongroup market would start to become unstable beginning in 2020. That instability would result from market responses to decisions by some states to waive two provisions of federal law, as would be permitted under H.R. 1628.
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code1211 said:
So, then, there was A bill, not HIS bill.

Just wondering.

Thank you for the clarification.
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It mostly certainly was his bill.

President Trump helped write embattled Obamacare replacement bill, Speaker Ryan says as he defends plan
House Speaker Paul Ryan said Wednesday that President Donald Trump and a Senate committee helped write the House's embattled replacement plan for Obamacare.
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President Trump and the GOP Humbled by Health Care Failure
The failure on Friday was not for lack of trying on the President’s part. Trump called members personally, invited them to the White House, granted concessions and used all the negotiating tactics he laid out in his book The Art of the Deal.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said Trump “left everything on the field” in pushing for the vote. At a press briefing earlier in the afternoon, he highlighted how “how detail-oriented, how personal it was” for Trump. He added the president worked the phones until late in the night all week, and that his aides reached out over and again to wavering members.
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WATCH: President Trump celebrates after GOP health care vote win
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump is celebrating the passage of the House Republican health care bill, saying he is confident it will get through the Senate.

Flanked by Republican lawmakers in the Rose Garden on Thursday, Trump called President Barack Obama’s health care law a “catastrophe” and called the GOP bill “a great plan.”
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DAnrIzmW0AMYTQb.jpg
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Right... Trump just says crap. Anyone can do that. Even you, see?
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In your mind actual facts and real world accomplishment is crap.

I'm betting you vote Democrat.
 
code1211 said:
In your mind actual facts and real world accomplishment is crap.

I'm betting you vote Democrat.
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Why does it matter who someone votes for? You clearly have a federal government with too much power, and using that power to screw over local communities. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or a Democrat or whatever, what matters is what is happening is clearly executive overreach in a way that is costing people's livelihoods.
 
Greenbeard said:
It mostly certainly was his bill.

President Trump helped write embattled Obamacare replacement bill, Speaker Ryan says as he defends plan


President Trump and the GOP Humbled by Health Care Failure


WATCH: President Trump celebrates after GOP health care vote win


DAnrIzmW0AMYTQb.jpg
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Three links to three anti Trump outlets.

These are interesting sources.

In most of their stories, they present Trump as a boorish, borderline illiterate, idiot with no idea how government works and no talent or skill in interpersonal relations.

Suddenly, in these stories, Trump is a gifted and experienced crafter of legislation guiding the efforts of the Congress with his superior skills in writing legislation.

Seems like a case of Jeckyll and Hyde.

Not so much in the actual, real world Trump but rather in the literary, fictional version of Trump these outlets present.

If this is true, what else must be true?
 
code1211 said:
TIn most of their stories, they present Trump as a boorish, borderline illiterate, idiot with no idea how government works and no talent or skill in interpersonal relations.

Suddenly, in these stories, Trump is a gifted and experienced crafter of legislation guiding the efforts of the Congress with his superior skills in writing legislation.
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Huh? H.R. 1628 was awful legislation that failed to get through the House multiple times--under a GOP majority whole sole animating principle was repealing the ACA--before it finally stumbled through with single digit public approval and ended up in the dustbin of history.

They wasted most of a year on terrible, historically unpopular legislation that ultimately didn't get signed. That level of incompetence has Trump written all over it.

It's like you've forgotten why you've spent so much of this thread trying to distance Trump from his bill and that effort. It was garbage legislation and ended in humiliating failure. And here you are, seemingly impressed by the product and process now? Seems like a case of Jeckyll and Hyde.
 
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Greenbeard said:
In fairness, he is delivering on the GOP’s years-long implicit promise of driving up premiums and stripping people of coverage.
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let us know when he gets near the damage Obama did to our healthcare. My premiums went up over 50% under obama. You see some if us actually have to pay for "free healthcare".
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Why does it matter who someone votes for? You clearly have a federal government with too much power, and using that power to screw over local communities. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or a Democrat or whatever, what matters is what is happening is clearly executive overreach in a way that is costing people's livelihoods.
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The overreach of the Executive Branch of the Government has been really, really restricted under Trump.

The pages of the Federal Registry has reduced by about 35,000 pages since Trump assumed the office. That is real limitation of governmental power and real expansion of personal freedom.

Add to this the reduction of taxes confiscated from the average guy and you have increased personal freedoms.

The less power gathered into Washington DC the better.

The closer Governing power resides to the people who are governed, the less likely is the possibility of illegal theft and abuse.

Under Trump, the "executive overreach in a way that is costing people's livelihoods" has been reduced.

This could be why jobs are up and the wages paid for those doing those jobs is up.
 
Greenbeard said:
Huh? H.R. 1628 was awful legislation that failed to get through the House multiple times--under a GOP majority whole sole animating principle was repealing the ACA--before it finally stumbled through with single digit public approval and ended up in the dustbin of history.

They wasted most of a year on terrible, historically unpopular legislation that ultimately didn't get signed. That level of incompetence has Trump written all over it.

It's like you've forgotten why you've spent so much of this thread trying to distance Trump from his bill and that effort. It was garbage legislation and ended in humiliating failure. And here you are, seemingly impressed by the product and process now? Seems like a case of Jeckyll and Hyde.
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Not at all.

You are saying that Trump wrote the bill and you presented three sources to back up your assertion.

Which is it? Did Trump write the bill or not?
 
code1211 said:
Not at all.

You are saying that Trump wrote the bill and you presented three sources to back up your assertion.

Which is it? Did Trump write the bill or not?
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By all accounts, including those of his own press secretary, he was heavily involved in crafting the bill and lobbying legislators for its passage. It was his baby.

Where you get "gifted and experienced crafter of legislation guiding the efforts of the Congress with his superior skills in writing legislation" from that bungled experience, I have no idea. The bill was garbage and the legislative process surrounding it was a joke. Your desperation to distance Trump from it makes clear that you at least realize this.

It was a tremendous failure that wasted the most important year any presidency gets. So, classic Trump.
 
Greenbeard said:
By all accounts, including those of his own press secretary, he was heavily involved in crafting the bill and lobbying legislators for its passage. It was his baby.

Where you get "gifted and experienced crafter of legislation guiding the efforts of the Congress with his superior skills in writing legislation" from that bungled experience, I have no idea. The bill was garbage and the legislative process surrounding it was a joke. Your desperation to distance Trump from it makes clear that you at least realize this.

It was a tremendous failure that wasted the most important year any presidency gets. So, classic Trump.
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Writing legislation is a skill unto itself.

Asking for rational restrictions on governmental idiocy is what Trump did.

Providing what Trump asked for is what the Congress failed to do.
 
code1211 said:
Under Trump, the "executive overreach in a way that is costing people's livelihoods" has been reduced.
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You mean like dropping BOMBS on foreign countries, much like his predecessors?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT AGENTS to separate families?

You mean like expanding Bush-era mass-SURVEILLANCE and detention without TRIAL?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to take away people's health insurance?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to eliminate choices for women what to do with their own INSIDES?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to fund ENDLESS REGIME-CHANGE WARS?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to gerrymander and rig ELECTIONS?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to widen the divide between the rich and poor, the privileged and underprivileged, the American and non-American, the Republican and Democrat?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to silence dissent, attack the freedom of the press, and stoke FEAR in exchange for more POWER?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to appoint Party insiders to the Supreme Court?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to appoint Party insiders to the Intelligence Community?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to disseminate false and baseless accusations along with what is essentially propaganda in the form of Fox News and Infowars?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to shelter our adversaries and prop up dictators while gaslighting the Western World into misguided, foolhardy and narcissistic neo-imperialist boondoggles?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to ROB the VERY PEOPLE DOING THE LEGWORK IN GOVERNMENT that require them to work for the sake of national security enabling him to essentially hold all non-Executive and middle-class personnel HOSTAGE for POLITICAL PURPOSES INVOLVING A MULTI-****-BILLION-DOLLAR WALL LIKE EAST GERMANY, AN AUTHORITARIAN SURVEILLANCE STATE...

You mean like... I mean, I could go on but I'm sure you get the picture...
 
Abbazorkzog said:
You mean like dropping BOMBS on foreign countries, much like his predecessors?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT AGENTS to separate families?

You mean like expanding Bush-era mass-SURVEILLANCE and detention without TRIAL?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to take away people's health insurance?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to eliminate choices for women what to do with their own INSIDES?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to fund ENDLESS REGIME-CHANGE WARS?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to gerrymander and rig ELECTIONS?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to widen the divide between the rich and poor, the privileged and underprivileged, the American and non-American, the Republican and Democrat?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to silence dissent, attack the freedom of the press, and stoke FEAR in exchange for more POWER?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to appoint Party insiders to the Supreme Court?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to appoint Party insiders to the Intelligence Community?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to disseminate false and baseless accusations along with what is essentially propaganda in the form of Fox News and Infowars?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to shelter our adversaries and prop up dictators while gaslighting the Western World into misguided, foolhardy and narcissistic neo-imperialist boondoggles?

You mean like using GOVERNMENT to ROB the VERY PEOPLE DOING THE LEGWORK IN GOVERNMENT that require them to work for the sake of national security enabling him to essentially hold all non-Executive and middle-class personnel HOSTAGE for POLITICAL PURPOSES INVOLVING A MULTI-****-BILLION-DOLLAR WALL LIKE EAST GERMANY, AN AUTHORITARIAN SURVEILLANCE STATE...

You mean like... I mean, I could go on but I'm sure you get the picture...
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Well, nothing in your post is based in fact except in some wild night mare fantasy of the propagandists that apparently control your thinking. Probably doesn't take up much of their time...

Did you find it at all interesting that when Trump was running and Obama controlled the "intelligence" agencies, there was a Russian under every voting booth.

In the election run AFTER Trump was elected, I didn't hear anything about Russian interference. Not even a whisper. What do you suppose caused the difference?

Just getting Obama out of the mix seems to have solved the problem.

Might be some connection there... Don't really know. Maybe you should turn on Don Lemon or "The View" and get more news that's tailored to your belief system..
 
code1211 said:
Did you find it at all interesting that when Trump was running and Obama controlled the "intelligence" agencies, there was a Russian under every voting booth.

In the election run AFTER Trump was elected, I didn't hear anything about Russian interference. Not even a whisper. What do you suppose caused the difference?
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That was primarily due to the Clintons. Obama was just a frontman. We all know Hillary was supposed to be the nominee in 2008. The Bushes wanted her to succeed him, not Obama.

Well, nothing in your post is based in fact except in some wild night mare fantasy of the propagandists that apparently control your thinking.
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Go ahead, keep your head in the sand. "It can't happen here! It can't happen here!" They said. But, even before they said that, people were living in ACTUAL SLAVERY in this country and white supremacist death squads were patrolling the streets for decades after this looking for people to execute for their skin color. You had the Pentagon propose an Eisenhower plan to stage bombings in Florida to justify an invasion of Cuba. And you had the LBJ, Nixon and Reagan foreign and domestic policy that was incredibly violent and aggressive, based on McCarthyist radicalism and the perpetual War on Drugs, which is incredibly racist as well. This kind of behavior from our government has GOT to STOP.

Just getting Obama out of the mix seems to have solved the problem.
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This isn't about one person, it isn't about Obama, it isn't about Hillary, it isn't even about Trump. This is a symptom of a broken system.

Focusing on the individual boils does not remedy the infection causing them.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
That was primarily due to the Clintons. Obama was just a frontman. We all know Hillary was supposed to be the nominee in 2008. The Bushes wanted her to succeed him, not Obama.



Go ahead, keep your head in the sand. "It can't happen here! It can't happen here!" They said. But, even before they said that, people were living in ACTUAL SLAVERY in this country and white supremacist death squads were patrolling the streets for decades after this looking for people to execute for their skin color. You had the Pentagon propose an Eisenhower plan to stage bombings in Florida to justify an invasion of Cuba. And you had the LBJ, Nixon and Reagan foreign and domestic policy that was incredibly violent and aggressive, based on McCarthyist radicalism and the perpetual War on Drugs, which is incredibly racist as well. This kind of behavior from our government has GOT to STOP.



This isn't about one person, it isn't about Obama, it isn't about Hillary, it isn't even about Trump. This is a symptom of a broken system.

Focusing on the individual boils does not remedy the infection causing them.
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I posted that the Executive overreach by our government was severely constricted by trump and then you posted a laundry list of things true through past decades and now you reiterate that the overreach is a bad thing.

Trump is reducing the overreach.

Are you happy about the reduction of overreach under Trump or upset that he has not extended overreach as was done by his predecessors?
 
Mycroft said:
He didn't lie. He was sabotaged.
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Your response is a prime example of why the left dismisses trump supporters like you. You can watch and listen to our president telling anyone who cares to listen we'll all have health insurance, bigger, better, cheaper health insurance and in some cases the government is paying he said. Yet you can watch the same video and say it wasn't trump lying, he was sabotaged.
 
Greenbeard said:
A coalition of cities is currently suing the Trump administration over its deliberate actions to undermine and harm the ACA (not to mention those people who need it).

Their complaint is fascinating for the extended cataloging it does of executive actions taken to depress marketplace enrollment, drive up premiums, and increase uninsurance. They spend ~150 pages describing in detail each of these actions and its impacts on their municipalities but the list they've put together is below.

(Mind you, this is just executive actions taken in the past two years, it doesn't include any sabotage conducted by the GOP Congress since 2011.)

  • Eliminating Protections that the ACA Guarantees
    1. Permitting Exchanges to Strip Individuals of Eligibility for Tax Credits Without Providing Direct Notification
    2. Outsourcing to States the Compliance Review of Insurance Plans to be Offered on Federal Exchanges
    3. Reducing Oversight of Insurance Brokers Participating in Direct Enrollment
  • Deterring Americans from Enrolling in Quality Health Insurance Plans
    1. Making It Harder to Compare Insurance Plans
    2. Undermining the Navigator Program
    3. Making Small Business Exchanges Less User-Friendly
    4. Imposing Unnecessary Income Verification Requirements
  • Driving Up Costs
    1. Curtailing Review of Insurance Rate Increases
    2. Reducing Rebates for Poor Insurer Performance
  • Directing Agencies to Sabotage the Act
  • Attempting to Destabilize the Exchanges
    1. Promoting Bare-Bones Plans to Try to Weaken ACA Exchanges
    2. Undermining the Individual Mandate
    3. Refusing to Grant State Waiver Requests that Would Further the ACA’s Goals
    4. Enabling and Encouraging States to Seek Waivers that Would Undercut the ACA’s Goals .
    5. Attempting to Weaken Public Confidence in ACA Exchanges
  • Working to Decrease Enrollment
    1. Shortening Open Enrollment
    2. Cutting Funding for Advertising and Refusing to Publicize Open Enrollment
    3. Cutting Funding for Navigators and Encouraging Them to Undermine the Act
    4. Failing to Set Numeric Enrollment Targets for 2018 and 2019
    5. Refusing to Participate in Enrollment Events and Other Outreach
  • Arbitrarily Driving Up Premiums
  • Refusing to Defend the Act

That's a strong list!
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Socialist medicine is a leftist liberal commie idea that democrats will fight to their death to impose on the already overburdened American taxpayer. "Damn the costs, full New Commie Deal ahead!"
 
marke said:
Socialist medicine is a leftist liberal commie idea that democrats will fight to their death to impose on the already overburdened American taxpayer. "Damn the costs, full New Commie Deal ahead!"
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You sound like MSNBC and CNN with their "everyone I don't like is a Russian Agent!1" hysteria.
Like, literally this is the EXACT SAME magnanimous acerebral oversimplification ... if not WORSE.

What is with this country and playing victim all the time?
 
Abbazorkzog said:
You sound like MSNBC and CNN with their "everyone I don't like is a Russian Agent!1" hysteria.
Like, literally this is the EXACT SAME magnanimous acerebral oversimplification ... if not WORSE.

What is with this country and playing victim all the time?
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What is it with politicians and pundits who want to explode the federal budget and balloon the debt while claiming to be fiscally sound guardians of Fort Knox?
 
marke said:
What is it with politicians and pundits who want to explode the federal budget and balloon the debt while claiming to be fiscally sound guardians of Fort Knox?
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And I rest my case.
 
marke said:
Socialist medicine is a leftist liberal commie idea that democrats will fight to their death to impose on the already overburdened American taxpayer. "Damn the costs, full New Commie Deal ahead!"
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You seem confused as to which thread you're in.
 
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