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Bernie sanders on single payer health care: ‘there will be pain’

Yes yes we know, your pet desire to make others pay for what you should be providing for yourself is amazing and just look at THESE smaller countries, they are so happy...

I have great health insurance.

One of the things you don't understand is that even poor countries, like Costa Rica, have some sort of national health care. There's a reason for that.

The next thing you don't understand is that a national health care system uses the same strategy as health insurance, to spread the financial costs. Psst, no magic.

The third that has flown over your head is that our system is a runaway train headed for a cliff. Things are going to change, and in a big way. The question is how big the body count gets before we get smart.
 
You seem to be saying that people on Medicare, a single payer system, have long wait times, rationed physicians, and less qualified doctors? If so, you are completely, totally, wrong!

medicare is run by private companies. the government just pays the bill.
a better look would be medicaid.

yes they have wait times rantioned physicians.
another would be the VA.

those are better views of what single payer would look like.

there is also nothing that says doctors have to accept single payer.
we got rid of indentured servitude a long time ago.
 
lol, I always laugh anytime I read a thread were people claim Doctors will leave if we pay them less. Doctors aren't getting paid a lot now. Hospital Administrators are. Hospital Cartels are.

A waiter makes more than a doctor does right out of school. And it takes them years to build up a practice and get a decent income.

Single Payer might actually get doctors more money. Especially, if we break up the Hospital Cartels and put an end to the Chargemaster pricing system they use to inflate prices 1000% above cost.

Of those inflated prices, doctors aren't the ones making bank. They just aren't.
 
medicare is run by private companies. the government just pays the bill.
a better look would be medicaid.

yes they have wait times rantioned physicians.
another would be the VA.

those are better views of what single payer would look like.

there is also nothing that says doctors have to accept single payer.
we got rid of indentured servitude a long time ago.

The VA is not single payer, it's socialized medicine.
Look, if you don't even know the difference between the two, maybe you need to step off.
The US network of military hospitals is also socialized.

Single payer is not by definition a fully socialized system because private doctors, clinics and hospitals already exist in this country, therefore there is no need to build out any government owned and operated infrastructure.

For the last twenty years, people such as yourself have been misinformed, often willfully so, and you refuse to learn.
 
I have great health insurance.

One of the things you don't understand is that even poor countries, like Costa Rica, have some sort of national health care. There's a reason for that.
have you seen the main public hospital for costa rica?
i have. I have been in it. there are people waiting outside because they can't get in.
There were about 100+ people waiting in the room to see a doctor.
it wasn't a pretty sight.

The next thing you don't understand is that a national health care system uses the same strategy as health insurance, to spread the financial costs. Psst, no magic.

Like everything with government it is the LCD of care. not what is best for you or what your doctor thinks is best for you.
you will be stuck getting additional insurance to cover what the government won't.

The third that has flown over your head is that our system is a runaway train headed for a cliff. Things are going to change, and in a big way. The question is how big the body count gets before we get smart.

AHH yes the doom and gloom of people dying in the streets etc ... the call of liberals for years.
yet when things not related to healthcare are not factored in the US ranks number 1.

https://www.nationalrighttolifenews...cts-but-obamacare-may-soon-make-it-a-reality/

the numbers on the actual rankings of our healthcare is so distorted it isn't funny.
 
https://news.grabien.com/story-bernie-sanders-single-payer-health-care-there-will-be-pain

Yes Bernie, so many smart, driven people will want to work for less, in an over controlled highly regulated and bureaucratized single payer system! Why the best and brightest will flock... oh wait, no they won't. We'll end up like the rest of the idiots on single payer, rationed with long wait times and lesser people as doctor because the bright folks that once wanted to be doctors will find other better pursuits.

I don't know how many times I have been told that my government healthcare--Medicare--won't pay for this or won't pay for that. My aunt was recently denied the drug she needed for her osteoporosis because Medicare wouldn't pay for it unless she had had her gall gladder removed. I asked the doctor what the gall bladder had to do with osteoporosis, and he said nothing. But that was the Medicare rules. So she had to settle for a less effective medication.

I can't imagine the nightmare of bureaucrats deciding what medical treatment will be paid for and what doctors will or will not be allowed to do for the patient.
 
The VA is not single payer, it's socialized medicine.
Look, if you don't even know the difference between the two, maybe you need to step off.
The US network of military hospitals is also socialized.

welcome to single payer. that is exactly what single payer is. socialized medicine. congrats.

Single payer is not by definition a fully socialized system because private doctors, clinics and hospitals already exist in this country, therefore there is no need to build out any government owned and operated infrastructure.
For the last twenty years, people such as yourself have been misinformed, often willfully so, and you refuse to learn.

Every European country in the world that you want to copy from that has single payer is all socialized medicine.
Yes you need to step off as you put it.

No we are quite informed what socialized medicine and the screw up that it is.
Government is not competent enough to run healthcare. they have proven it time and time again.

yes you refuse to learn. that is why we continue to have these same discussions because you refuse to learn lol.
maybe one day you will get it. maybe one day you will understand and realize but i doubt it.

you cannot force doctors to accept single payer. If i was a doctor i would tell the government to go screw themselves.
University of Chicago Medicine severs ties with Medicaid insurer IlliniCare - Chicago Tribune

yea a great system to be on. no one wants to participate in.

yep such a great system.

Fewer doctors are opting out of Medicare - Modern Healthcare

it is bad enough at the major doctor shortage we already have.
 
have you seen the main public hospital for costa rica?
i have. I have been in it. there are people waiting outside because they can't get in.
There were about 100+ people waiting in the room to see a doctor.
it wasn't a pretty sight.



Like everything with government it is the LCD of care. not what is best for you or what your doctor thinks is best for you.
you will be stuck getting additional insurance to cover what the government won't.



AHH yes the doom and gloom of people dying in the streets etc ... the call of liberals for years.
yet when things not related to healthcare are not factored in the US ranks number 1.

https://www.nationalrighttolifenews...cts-but-obamacare-may-soon-make-it-a-reality/

the numbers on the actual rankings of our healthcare is so distorted it isn't funny.

Costa Rica is dirt poor, so saying they have to work withing their financial limitations is saying the obvious. From a policy perspective, it makes a lot of sense to do that. Some time ago, a NYT author compared our health system to one in a poor Eastern European country. They were punching above their weight class, and justifiably proud of it. The article was critical of us, not that country. The author later said it felt like everyone in the country had emailed or called him to complain. He got over a thousand complaints. Mostly they just didn't like their system being compared to ours, and who could blame them...

Actually, a private/public partnership is a winning strategy. Several European countries use that tactic to great effect. I have no problem with single payer. But neither do I have a problem with a combo system that provides basic healthcare for all, and if you want all the bells and whistles, you can pay extra to get insurance.

We spend far more than any other country; and have mediocre health stats. That is going to change, the real question is what direction we want to go.
 
I don't know how many times I have been told that my government healthcare--Medicare--won't pay for this or won't pay for that. My aunt was recently denied the drug she needed for her osteoporosis because Medicare wouldn't pay for it unless she had had her gall gladder removed. I asked the doctor what the gall bladder had to do with osteoporosis, and he said nothing. But that was the Medicare rules. So she had to settle for a less effective medication.

I can't imagine the nightmare of bureaucrats deciding what medical treatment will be paid for and what doctors will or will not be allowed to do for the patient.

these people are not living in reality if they think they are just going to have to pay the extra 30% in taxes and that is it.
nope.

it will be means tested of course. also i am sure there will be a single and a family rate.
on top of that it will not cover a whole ton of crap and you will need to buy additional insurance like
most countries do.

that will run you another 300 bucks a month depending on the gap you want.
then there are still out of pocket costs etc ...

they have no clue.

all they hear is it will be "free" and they start jumping up and down it's free it's free.
 
I have great health insurance.

One of the things you don't understand is that even poor countries, like Costa Rica, have some sort of national health care. There's a reason for that.

The next thing you don't understand is that a national health care system uses the same strategy as health insurance, to spread the financial costs. Psst, no magic.

The third that has flown over your head is that our system is a runaway train headed for a cliff. Things are going to change, and in a big way. The question is how big the body count gets before we get smart.

You have great, so why do you want subpar? Politics over sanity I guess.
 
Costa Rica is dirt poor, so saying they have to work withing their financial limitations is saying the obvious. From a policy perspective, it makes a lot of sense to do that. Some time ago, a NYT author compared our health system to one in a poor Eastern European country. They were punching above their weight class, and justifiably proud of it. The article was critical of us, not that country. The author later said it felt like everyone in the country had emailed or called him to complain. He got over a thousand complaints. Mostly they just didn't like their system being compared to ours, and who could blame them...

Actually, a private/public partnership is a winning strategy. Several European countries use that tactic to great effect. I have no problem with single payer. But neither do I have a problem with a combo system that provides basic healthcare for all, and if you want all the bells and whistles, you can pay extra to get insurance.

We spend far more than any other country; and have mediocre health stats. That is going to change, the real question is what direction we want to go.

*sigh*

costa rica has a national healthcare system. yet you didn't want to go into details about that system because when you look it sucks.

no it isn't. i give you medicare and medicaid.

of course you don't have a problem with it because you ignore all the issues.

the articlei posted on your last comment proves you wrong.
you should try educating yourself on things and not just repeating the same dogma every time.
 
these people are not living in reality if they think they are just going to have to pay the extra 30% in taxes and that is it.
nope.

it will be means tested of course. also i am sure there will be a single and a family rate.
on top of that it will not cover a whole ton of crap and you will need to buy additional insurance like
most countries do.

that will run you another 300 bucks a month depending on the gap you want.
then there are still out of pocket costs etc ...

they have no clue.

all they hear is it will be "free" and they start jumping up and down it's free it's free.

.The Bariatric surgery I'm hopefully having in July, would be MONTHS of waiting to even get cleared for it in most o the places, and while yes there is an out of pocket, it will be done by one of the best in Texas, seriously, I got to choose this doctor. Single payer... not so much.
 
Do you have a link to back up that idiocy? 6 month wait for cancer patients, spare us the BS.

If the cancer is benign, while 83% of people will be seen in < 90 days, some do wait as much as 6 months if not more.

Although life-threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next-available appointment in their local chosen facility.

The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans[65] is two weeks with 86.4% waiting fewer than 90 days.[64] The median wait time for elective or non-urgent surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting fewer than 90 days.[64]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada

Now that I have provided proof that it is not BS, what say you? More baseless dismissiveness?

Canada also has the longest wait time for specialist appointments, with 56% of all Canadians waiting for over four weeks. The US, on the other hand, has one of the lowest rates at 24%, far below the 36% average.

Four weeks for a specialist? **** that. I'll stick with the better faster care thanks.
 
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welcome to single payer. that is exactly what single payer is. socialized medicine. congrats.



Every European country in the world that you want to copy from that has single payer is all socialized medicine.
Yes you need to step off as you put it.

No we are quite informed what socialized medicine and the screw up that it is.
Government is not competent enough to run healthcare. they have proven it time and time again.

yes you refuse to learn. that is why we continue to have these same discussions because you refuse to learn lol.
maybe one day you will get it. maybe one day you will understand and realize but i doubt it.

you cannot force doctors to accept single payer. If i was a doctor i would tell the government to go screw themselves.
University of Chicago Medicine severs ties with Medicaid insurer IlliniCare - Chicago Tribune

yea a great system to be on. no one wants to participate in.

yep such a great system.

Fewer doctors are opting out of Medicare - Modern Healthcare

it is bad enough at the major doctor shortage we already have.

Yet those countries have better outcomes in every study. Isn't that what counts?

America does perform well, comparatively, when it comes to doctor-patient relationships, end-of-life care, and survival rates after major issues like breast cancer or strokes. However, the United States does less well on measures of population health: It had high rates of infant mortality and a low life expectancy at 60 years. It also has the highest rate of “mortality amenable to health care”—deaths that doctors and hospitals can prevent—and has experienced the smallest reduction in that measure in the past decade.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/us-worst-health-care-commonwealth-2017-report/533634/
 
https://news.grabien.com/story-bernie-sanders-single-payer-health-care-there-will-be-pain

Yes Bernie, so many smart, driven people will want to work for less, in an over controlled highly regulated and bureaucratized single payer system! Why the best and brightest will flock... oh wait, no they won't. We'll end up like the rest of the idiots on single payer, rationed with long wait times and lesser people as doctor because the bright folks that once wanted to be doctors will find other better pursuits.

So how many years have you lived in a single payer country?.
Do tell.
ZERO?
It is an immense relief knowing health costs cannot bankrupt you.
Know what they say "if you haven't been there, keep your trap shut, you have nothing meaningful to say"
 
So how many years have you lived in a single payer country?.
Do tell.
ZERO?
It is an immense relief knowing health costs cannot bankrupt you.
Know what they say "if you haven't been there, keep your trap shut, you have nothing meaningful to say"

No but those 6 month waits for an MRI can kill you...
 
So how many years have you lived in a single payer country?.
Do tell.
ZERO?
It is an immense relief knowing health costs cannot bankrupt you.
Know what they say "if you haven't been there, keep your trap shut, you have nothing meaningful to say"

On the rare occasion that medical debts do partially contribute to bankruptcy, they likely accumulate from patients’ demands for the kinds of expensive, cutting-edge or end-of-life treatments that would never be covered by government insurance anyway. It is a fact that many of these same types of expensive treatments are increasingly not insured by government healthcare in Canada.

Indeed, if we define medical bankruptcies the way Himmelstein and colleagues did for their study in the United States, we find such bankruptcies also occur in Canada. Survey research commissioned by the Canadian government found that despite having a government-run health system, medical reasons (including uninsured expenses), were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age and older).

There is no objective evidence to indicate that a government-run health care system in the United States will reduce personal bankruptcies. The U.S.-Canada comparative analysis strongly suggests that bankruptcy statistics are being exaggerated and distorted for political reasons.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/medical-bankruptcy-myth

Damn shame your bankruptcy beliefs aren't what you think they are...
 
costa rica has a national healthcare system. yet you didn't want to go into details about that system because when you look it sucks.

no it isn't. i give you medicare and medicaid.

of course you don't have a problem with it because you ignore all the issues.

the articlei posted on your last comment proves you wrong.
you should try educating yourself on things and not just repeating the same dogma every time.

It sucks by your standards. It's a big improvement for Costa Ricans.

You are carefully ignoring the European countries with successful public/private partnerships. You really shouldn't...

By issues, you mean propaganda.

Project much? I have seen several studies over the years about doctors in successful health care system being happier than ours. I'd also like to know how exactly you came to your conclusion about that article.
 
It sucks by your standards. It's a big improvement for Costa Ricans.

You are carefully ignoring the European countries with successful public/private partnerships. You really shouldn't...

By issues, you mean propaganda.

Project much? I have seen several studies over the years about doctors in successful health care system being happier than ours. I'd also like to know how exactly you came to your conclusion about that article.

You ignore the facts of those countries and try to fit their system applied to the USA, a much larger country with a completely different system.
 
You ignore the facts of those countries and try to fit their system applied to the USA, a much larger country with a completely different system.

IOW, you've given up.

I accept the implicit admission of defeat.

I am not ignoring the facts, you are ignoring the fact that the CR system is an improvement for them, that several countries have very successful private/public partnerships. That we are going to have to change, and I suspect what you want to do would make matters worse (which is why you stick to reactionary responses).

Sheesh.
 
The VA is not single payer, it's socialized medicine.
Look, if you don't even know the difference between the two, maybe you need to step off.
The US network of military hospitals is also socialized.

Single payer is not by definition a fully socialized system because private doctors, clinics and hospitals already exist in this country, therefore there is no need to build out any government owned and operated infrastructure.

For the last twenty years, people such as yourself have been misinformed, often willfully so, and you refuse to learn.

Actually the same can be said for people such as yourself.

For example.. the UK is highly socialized when it comes to its hospital and provider system. And yet you and others hold it up as an example of what the US should do.. and how single payer works... and then you say.. "there is no need to build out and government owned and operated infrastructure".

Bernie Sanders trots out medicare for all as an easy solution... forgetting that 1. Medicare as one of the lowest reimbursement providing entities is partially subsidized by private insurance which pays better to physicians 2. Medicare pays for lots of things that most other single payer government insurances in other countries DO NOT pay for.
3. The healthcare system is often highly regulated in other countries.. even with private providers.. since often only so many private providers can get the contracts to do care under the single payer system. Which effectively reduces the number of providers.. especially specialists.
 
these people are not living in reality if they think they are just going to have to pay the extra 30% in taxes and that is it.
nope.

it will be means tested of course. also i am sure there will be a single and a family rate.
on top of that it will not cover a whole ton of crap and you will need to buy additional insurance like
most countries do.

that will run you another 300 bucks a month depending on the gap you want.
then there are still out of pocket costs etc ...

they have no clue.

all they hear is it will be "free" and they start jumping up and down it's free it's free.

Who has ever said that medicare is free? I mean, do you know how medicare even works. Or what AlbqOwl is even referencing? The medication that person wanted, probably caused gall stones, and if that person was getting it under Part A, the cost of long term treatment of gall stones was weigh against removing the gall bladder and found that it's cheaper to remove the gall bladder. Whatever that doctor told that person, it wasn't that's medicare's rules and that's all I know. If they had they would be subject to reprimand at the very least, misrepresenting medicare is a no no. It was probably an explanation of why that nobody understood, except medicare says so.

Part A is not an 80/20 plan that covers your doctor visits. It's for long term hospital stays, durable medical equipment, and drugs while you're in the hospital or nursing home. That's the one you pay on with every check. That's the one you people think is free. It's not. You paid for it your whole life.

Part B is the 80/20 coverage that covers your doctors, and procedures, pretty much everything that is not covered by part A. It is definitely not free. It costs around 100 bucks a month. Changes year to year but stays between 100 and 120 a month. Regardless of how old you are, or what your health is. So not free. and that 20 percent you pay, has no cap on it. If you get a 100,000 dollar bill, you will owe 20,000 dollars. Still sound free?

Part C is a replacement plan offered by private companies like Humana. They have to meet a certain set of standards of care that Part A and B meet. But they are not administered by the government.

Part D is the retarded brain child of Pres W Bush and is a complete and utter **** show. All it's for is drugs. And it's not one plan, it's thousands of different plans. All ****ty. All paying full price for drugs with no option to negotiate for a discount. And one of the main reason drug prices are so high in this country. Look up how much Drug Companies donated to Bush, to figure out why that is.

Many people get a supplement plan to cover the Part A deductible of 1100 dollars, and the Part B 20% that is not covered or capped. These plans are lettered, Plan F, Plan J, etc. And they are designed by Medicare, but offered by private companies. The only difference from one company to the next is the price.

For instance, if you are a 65 year old male. And you have no health problems. One company will offer you an initial reduced rate on a good plan, like Plan N. But as you age, your increases in premiums will make up the difference you didn't pay on that reduced rate. And when you are unhealthy and unable to switch plans, your paying a great deal.

Or you can go with the same plan, at a higher initial rate, and enjoy lower premium increases. With a different company.

It all boils down to whether you think you can switch off the cheaper plan before it becomes expensive and yourself unhealthy.

The Plan N, starts out around 65 bucks a month. Covers the 20 percent, comes with a small copay, and a 100 dollar deductible. For an old sick man with cancer.
 
welcome to single payer. that is exactly what single payer is. socialized medicine. congrats.



Every European country in the world that you want to copy from that has single payer is all socialized medicine.
Yes you need to step off as you put it.

No we are quite informed what socialized medicine and the screw up that it is.
Government is not competent enough to run healthcare. they have proven it time and time again.

yes you refuse to learn. that is why we continue to have these same discussions because you refuse to learn lol.
maybe one day you will get it. maybe one day you will understand and realize but i doubt it.

you cannot force doctors to accept single payer. If i was a doctor i would tell the government to go screw themselves.
University of Chicago Medicine severs ties with Medicaid insurer IlliniCare - Chicago Tribune

yea a great system to be on. no one wants to participate in.

yep such a great system.

Fewer doctors are opting out of Medicare - Modern Healthcare

it is bad enough at the major doctor shortage we already have.

Can't fix stupid, this is why I generally do not read your posts.
Back to avoiding the ignorance for me.
 
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