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Medicare For Pre-existing Conditions

Moderate Right

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Instead of passing Obamacare several years ago, what if we had just kept everything the same as it was and instituted a policy of Medicare for all who had pre-existing conditions that met certain criteria? Premiums would have decreased for everyone who did not have pre-existing conditions and those with the conditions would have Medicare. The government would have been picking up the tab of many expenses but they wound up picking up the tab regarding Obamacare subsidies for all anyway.
 
I only have one criteria for health care. The quantity of cash in your wallet, should not determine the quality of your health care. This is a sign of a first and highest generation society.
 
I only have one criteria for health care. The quantity of cash in your wallet, should not determine the quality of your health care. This is a sign of a first and highest generation society.
Sorry, but you cant point to anywhere on the planet in the earths history where the quality of health care was not determined by the cost...including systems that offer 'free' health care.
 
Sorry, but you cant point to anywhere on the planet in the earths history where the quality of health care was not determined by the cost...including systems that offer 'free' health care.

Show me another country in history that spends $700 billion per year on defense without a major war raging.
 
Sorry, but you cant point to anywhere on the planet in the earths history where the quality of health care was not determined by the cost...including systems that offer 'free' health care.

Well it is definitely possible to have a very high quality of care but also far more cost effective.
 
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Instead of passing Obamacare several years ago, what if we had just kept everything the same as it was and instituted a policy of Medicare for all who had pre-existing conditions that met certain criteria? Premiums would have decreased for everyone who did not have pre-existing conditions and those with the conditions would have Medicare. The government would have been picking up the tab of many expenses but they wound up picking up the tab regarding Obamacare subsidies for all anyway.

Medicare-For-All, single payer, public option, all of these were initially discussed and were presented as a larger part of the effort toward healthcare reform, but all were shot down. So all we were left with was pretty much what constitutes the ACA as it is today, which I admit is flawed.
A public option would have gone a long way toward correcting a lot of those flaws, and so would a Medicare-For-All approach for a selected risk group.

None of these, by the way, amount to "socialized medicine", where a government builds and operates clinics and hospitals, because all of these options would use the existing infrastructure, doctors, clinics and hospitals, that we currently have today.

It doesn't amount to "the government getting into the health care business", it amounts to the government being a client of the health care business, which to some extent, it always has been to a greater or lesser extent for much of the modern era.

You made some excellent, and moderate, points in your above statement and I find myself in agreement, but unfortunately, as you've probably heard, there is a saying: "You don't want to know how the sausage gets made."
Well, we got "sausage", because by the time the excised bill went to the House and Senate, the insurance lobbies took it up and baked what they wanted into the bill instead.

I would like to believe that, if we can put aside a great deal of the current tribalism and have both sides work together, we can get something accomplished that meets the generalities you expressed. Of course, that has been the desire of many Americans on both sides all along anyway, down through successive administrations.

This is going to require everyone to put aside the squabbling and accusations over past history. The ACA eliminated some egregious issues but it created some new ones. But rather than trying to repeal it, we should try FIXING it instead. A Medicare-For-All option, or a public option, could be ADDED to the existing system.
The existing system could even perhaps transition to a dual tier single payer system, with elective procedures covered by free market policies, or "gap coverage", and basic health care covered by single payer.
Any number of a wide variety of approaches can be considered.
Personally, if we enact a Medicare-For-All system for selected risk pools, I happen to think it will cure a multitude of sins.
 
Well it is definitely possible to have a very high quality of care but also far more cost effective.
So many qualifiers.

Where do the rich people in Zurich go for their health care?
 
So many qualifiers.

Where do the rich people in Zurich go for their health care?

I don't know, I am not Swiss, and Switzerland is the only country with more expensive healthcare than the US, then again a Big Mac meal is $20 here. However pretty much any other country in Europe, Canada, Japan, and New Zealand all have very high quality healthcare all while spending much less.
 
Even an optional Medicare buy-in for 55-year-olds and up couldn't pass in 2009 due to unified opposition from the GOP and conservative Dems: Lieberman says no to Medicare buy-in.

Asking now why instead of helping people buy private insurance they didn't just put everyone into Medicare betrays a total amnesia as to the political context of the time.

But if you want to dismantle the exchanges and move everyone onto Medicare now, there's a decent chance that will soon be the consensus position (thanks, oddly enough, to the right).
 
I don't know, I am not Swiss, and Switzerland is the only country with more expensive healthcare than the US, then again a Big Mac meal is $20 here. However pretty much any other country in Europe, Canada, Japan, and New Zealand all have very high quality healthcare all while spending much less.

And do rich Canadians go to the free clinics?


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Instead of passing Obamacare several years ago, what if we had just kept everything the same as it was and instituted a policy of Medicare for all who had pre-existing conditions that met certain criteria? Premiums would have decreased for everyone who did not have pre-existing conditions and those with the conditions would have Medicare. The government would have been picking up the tab of many expenses but they wound up picking up the tab regarding Obamacare subsidies for all anyway.

That would encourage patients to have "pre existing conditions" so they could get on Medicare. It would be better to gradually reduce the age requirement until everyone had it. There would then be no need for private insurance, Medicaid, VA, or anything else. it could easily be paid for by a tax on businesses equal to half what they're currently paying for health insurance. That would ease the burden on employers and provide universal health care that would have costs more in line with what the rest of the world pays.
 
And do rich Canadians go to the free clinics?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes.

My grandfather is a multimillionaire who went to St. Michael's hospital in Toronto for heart surgery and his pacemaker implant, and regularly returns to have its battery recharged and data retrieved/analyzed, while he routinely sees a family doctor at his local clinic to monitor his health and prescriptions.
 
Yes.

My grandfather is a multimillionaire who went to St. Michael's hospital in Toronto for heart surgery and his pacemaker implant, and regularly returns to have its battery recharged and data retrieved/analyzed, while he routinely sees a family doctor at his local clinic to monitor his health and prescriptions.
Sounds like Grandpa is what we call an anomaly
More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds | National Post.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
https://www.therichest.com/business/economy/the-new-way-the-wealthy-are-staying-healthy/

Now honestly? I wish it werent the case. I wish all Canadians were barred from using anything but state provided care. SImilarly, I wish every person that advocated for Obamacare was forced to use ACA providers. But we know that will never happen.
 
Sounds like Grandpa is what we call an anomaly
More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds | National Post.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
https://www.therichest.com/business/economy/the-new-way-the-wealthy-are-staying-healthy/

Now honestly? I wish it werent the case. I wish all Canadians were barred from using anything but state provided care. SImilarly, I wish every person that advocated for Obamacare was forced to use ACA providers. But we know that will never happen.

Figured I'd just quote a prior response to this tired old 'study' by the Fraiser Institute; it should also be noted that these procedures are elective and/or non-emergency, and in some cases the govt is paying:

Medical tourism is actually (unsurprisingly) more common for the United States than Canada per the latest information available, and that's assuming you take the Fraser Institute's (a conservative think tank that is notoriously critical of our healthcare system and wants to privatize it) flawed numbers at face value where they essentially asked a small sample of specialists to _guess_ how many patients sought treatment outside of Canada, then extrapolated from there, giving a figure of 63,000 as of 2016.

The US by contrast features as of 2008, 60-85k foreign medical tourists seeking medical services in the US, and 750k American medical tourists seeking healthcare elsewhere as of 2007 (up 250k from 2006); if we extrapolate even half that rate of growth, that would work out to 2 million American medical tourists in 2017, or 3.25 million if it remains constant. Even adjusting for population, on a per capita ratio this substantially exceeds Canadian medical tourism by a ratio of greater than 3 : 1 (and it's still significantly greater even if we assumed no growth in medical tourism from 2007 which is absurd).

Back in the 90s, Ontario was facing a crisis due to unprecedented theft of healthcare from Americans: Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada - NYTimes.com
 
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And do rich Canadians go to the free clinics?


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They are not free clinics, all hospitals are administered by their respective healthcare systems, only private clinics exist. Yes even rich Canadians use the free healthcare system. Regarding your post with the National Post article, it was done b the Fraser Institute a very right-leaning think tank so take it with a grain of salt.
 
I only have one criteria for health care. The quantity of cash in your wallet, should not determine the quality of your health care. This is a sign of a first and highest generation society.

But that is what healthcare is all about. Someone somewhere pays the bill and countries with single payer also determine what will be paid for and what will not.
 
Well it is definitely possible to have a very high quality of care but also far more cost effective.

That doesn't have anything to do with what he said. Pick whatever country you want. In single payer countries the government's wallet determines what healthcare you get and don't get. In these countries newer medicines available in the US aren't an option for many years afterward.
 
I don't know, I am not Swiss, and Switzerland is the only country with more expensive healthcare than the US, then again a Big Mac meal is $20 here. However pretty much any other country in Europe, Canada, Japan, and New Zealand all have very high quality healthcare all while spending much less.

But in every case the quality of healthcare is determined by what the government will or will not pay for and the newest treatment options are not available for years.
 
:doh~ Well ... THAT would actually make more sense than the ObamaCare fiasco . Just sounds too simple ! Probably why is was never considered .
 
Even an optional Medicare buy-in for 55-year-olds and up couldn't pass in 2009 due to unified opposition from the GOP and conservative Dems: Lieberman says no to Medicare buy-in.

Asking now why instead of helping people buy private insurance they didn't just put everyone into Medicare betrays a total amnesia as to the political context of the time.

But if you want to dismantle the exchanges and move everyone onto Medicare now, there's a decent chance that will soon be the consensus position (thanks, oddly enough, to the right).

I am against Medicare for all but I would be for Medicare for all who had certain qulifying medical conditions, if they wanted it.
 
And do rich Canadians go to the free clinics?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. The left tout statistics that single payer systems have just as good health outcomes for a much cheaper price and yet the rich in those countries apparently don't want just as good health outcomes for a cheaper price. What is the left's explanation for this?
 
That would encourage patients to have "pre existing conditions" so they could get on Medicare. It would be better to gradually reduce the age requirement until everyone had it. There would then be no need for private insurance, Medicaid, VA, or anything else. it could easily be paid for by a tax on businesses equal to half what they're currently paying for health insurance. That would ease the burden on employers and provide universal health care that would have costs more in line with what the rest of the world pays.

Liberal kool aid drinking. I don't want Medicare. What in the hell do you mean patients would want pre-existing conditions (by the way, I said quallifying conditions)? Either you have pre-existing conditions or you don't. It's idiocy to suggest that someone would want cancer so they could be on Medicare.
 
I am against Medicare for all but I would be for Medicare for all who had certain qulifying medical conditions, if they wanted it.

I suspect many on the left would be delighted to take a massive expansion of Medicare as a starting point. Maybe the GOP will put that on the table?
 
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