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More recent evidence that capitalism would reduce health care costs 80%

ultmd said:
You don't have a clue about "efficiency" as it relates to socialized and "free market" health care systems. .
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why not cut the clowning and tell us if you support socialized health care or capitalist health care and why?
 
ultmd said:
Like most ideologues, you seek affirmation of your biases, as opposed to allowing your biases to be predicated upon truth and knowledge.
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well I am biased toward freedom and capitalism based on Cuba /Florida, East/West Germany, Hong Kong/Red China, USA/USSR, etc etc. You do understand that this is only logical?
 
ultmd said:
You don't have a clue about "efficiency" as it relates to socialized and "free market" health care systems.
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we know the USA spends 3 times what Europe and Canada spend for same results. That tell us that our system is very very inefficient. 1+1=2
 
James972 said:
Wm Buckley Jr described conservatism as "against govt". And if he was the leader of the conservative movement and all conservative intellectuals accepted that definition why wouldn't it be good enough for middle school???? Isn't thinking fun??
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No true scotsman fallacy is noted
You still have no clue what the terms conservative or liberal means even though you have been given links to various sites explainign them. Instead you prefer to wallow in your ignorance repeating logical fallacy after logical fallacy

Tell me James why are you so afraid of actually learning??
 
ultmd said:
The opinions of Buckley and Friedman reflect their personal biases..
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I agree but our subject was the definition of conservative. Buckley Friedman Jefferson and Aristotle and many other intellectual leaders supported freedom from govt. That is why Jefferson founded the Republican Party that we know and love today. Do you want to tell us why their definition would not hold up in middle school or do you want to change the subject and hope no one will notice??
 
ultmd said:
And that's because you are an ideologue who really doesn't care about truth and facts,
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sure I do, I care that East Germany did not do as well West Germany, Cuba Florida. USA/USSR. Do you understand the truth now??
 
ultmd said:
Can you back up YOUR OPINIONS with your own knowledge?
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sure I know Taiwan did far better than China, Florida far better than Cuba. Do you understand?
 
ultmd said:
And yet, according to you, if Buckley believed it....that SHOULD be good enough for all conservatives. Right?
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Buckley was greatest conservative leader of post war era so was more responsible for definition of term conservative than anybody else. There were rival but secondary schools of thought too which had somewhat different definitions. Do you grasp this now?
 
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ultmd said:
Or, perhaps, could it be that Conservatism is a bit more complex than a lot of simple-minded right wing ideologue might prefer that it be??
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well, obviously the greatest conservative leader, Buckley , gets the most say in the definition of the word. At 50th anniversary of NR he simple said "those of us who are against govt." If you have a minority definition from a minority conservative why are you so afraid to tell us who this mystery person is?
 
James972 said:
why not cut the clowning and tell us if you support socialized health care or capitalist health care and why?
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Still running scared, huh? Define "efficiency" as it pertains to the evaluation of health care systems. Either that, or admit you're ignorant about it, and then I'll teach you. And stop trying to change the subject. We're talking about which system is more efficient at making providing health care to a population of people. Yo when you said that "socialized" medicine is more expensive. Now you don't like being held to account for your ignorance (or dishonesty), but that's not my problem. So just answer my questions and I'll be happy to answer yours in words that even you can understand.

James972 said:
well I am biased toward freedom and capitalism based on Cuba /Florida, East/West Germany, Hong Kong/Red China, USA/USSR, etc etc. You do understand that this is only logical?
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You are biased toward your ideology. That's all you know, and all you care about. That much seem obvious.

James972 said:
we know the USA spends 3 times what Europe and Canada spend for same results. That tell us that our system is very very inefficient. 1+1=2
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Another dodge. Answer the questions. You said that socialized health care systems are more costly. That's not true. Now you need to own up to your ignorance.

James972 said:
I agree but our subject was the definition of conservative. Buckley Friedman Jefferson and Aristotle and many other intellectual leaders supported freedom from govt. That is why Jefferson founded the Republican Party that we know and love today. Do you want to tell us why their definition would not hold up in middle school or do you want to change the subject and hope no one will notice??
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You don't understand this, but your definitions (i.e. "liberal means govt and conservative means freedom") have NOTHING to do with Buckley, Friedman and Jefferson. They are not the problem. You are.

James972 said:
sure I do, I care that East Germany did not do as well West Germany, Cuba Florida. USA/USSR. Do you understand the truth now??.......sure I know Taiwan did far better than China, Florida far better than Cuba. Do you understand?
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:roll:Geez...I understand that you are not too bright (or, perhaps just really young), and that you're perfectly comfortable being that way. In other words, you're a fairly typical ideologue. Facts are only relevant to you if they re-affirm your existing biases.

James972 said:
Buckley was greatest conservative leader of post war era so was more responsible for definition of term conservative than anybody else. There were rival but secondary schools of thought too which had somewhat different definitions. Do you grasp this now?
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ANOTHER dodge. Buckley was a racist who believed that white supremacy was "absolutely" justified, and he believed that to be entirely in keeping with "conservatism" as he defined it. He's a hero of yours, and you believe in "conservatism" as defined by him. And you'd like that definition, which includes the fallacy of white intellectual and cultural supremacy, to be taught to American children in middle school. So.........YES, I "grasp" EXACTLY what that says about you. And I'm not surprised by it, in the least. But, no, Buckley doesn't get to define "conservative" any more than someone like Pat Robertson or Franklin Graham gets to define "Christian". Now, you may not "grasp" that, but that's not really important.
 
ultmd said:
Still running scared, huh? Define "efficiency" as it pertains to the evaluation of health care systems..
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Europe and Canada pay $4000 while USA pays $10,000 thus we inefficiently deliver about the same care at 3 times the cost of Europe and Canada. Now do you understand? But this is not our subject. Rather, it is whether capitalism could reduces our prices by 80%. Evidence says it could. Now do you understand?
 
ultmd said:
You are biased toward your ideology. That's all you know, and all you care about. That much seem obvious.
.
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what you are trying to say is biased and correct given the West Germany did far better than East Germany.
 
ultmd said:
You said that socialized health care systems are more costly. That's not true. .
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look at North/South Korea. People in north cant afford anything people in the south can afford everything. Look at USA/ USSR. Do you grasp this now?
 
James972 said:
look at North/South Korea. People in north cant afford anything people in the south can afford everything. Look at USA/ USSR. Do you grasp this now?
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No one in Korea can afford anything. The entire peninsula is a holographic reproduction.

Do you understand?
 
ultmd said:
You don't understand this, but your definitions (i.e. "liberal means govt and conservative means freedom") have NOTHING to do with Buckley, Friedman and Jefferson. They are not the problem. You are.
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Do you think that Buckley, Friedman, Jefferson and Aristotle were for govt or for freedom and capitalism???
 
ultmd said:
Facts are only relevant to you if they re-affirm your existing biases.
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so what should we conclude when in 132 examples wherein you have capitalism and socialism side by side capitalism does about 5 times better?
 
ultmd said:
ANOTHER dodge. Buckley was a racist who believed that white supremacy was "absolutely" justified, .
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Our subject is the definition of conservatism as established by the greatest leaders in the conservative movement who defined it as " against govt."
Remember when Reagan said the last words you want to hear are, "I'm from the govt and I want to help." Now do you understand?
 
ultmd said:
And you'd like that definition, which includes the fallacy of white intellectual and cultural supremacy, to be taught to American children in middle school.
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you have evidence of that I will pay you $10,000. Bet? or run away with your liberal tail between your legs?
 
ultmd said:
Buckley doesn't get to define "conservative".
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you seem confused, he did in fact get to define it because he was its greatest leader. Why are you so afraid to tell us who gets to define it if not Buckley Aristotle Jefferson Friedman, etc? What did you learn from your fear?

PS: Buckley was not a racist. Start a thread if you want another lesson on another subject
 
James972 said:
Europe and Canada pay $4000 while USA pays $10,000 thus we inefficiently deliver about the same care at 3 times the cost of Europe and Canada. Now do you understand? But this is not our subject. Rather, it is whether capitalism could reduces our prices by 80%. Evidence says it could. Now do you understand?
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Yes the USA should switch to the European or Canadian model for health care so it will be cheaper.
 
Quag said:
Yes the USA should switch to the European or Canadian model for health care so it will be cheaper.
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why not switch to capitalism since we know it is far more efficient? Remember East/West Germany
 
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