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More recent evidence that capitalism would reduce health care costs 80%

James972

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1) we know from examples like East/West Germany that communists live at about 20% of capitalist standards of living,

2) recent survey of routine appendectomy surgery is socialist CA showed range of $5k to $55k,

3) CBS evening news this week had story about how shopping for drugs reduced price from $700 to $42 for one prescription,

4) neighbor recently complained to Dr. about shortness of breath while playing ice hockey. $11,000 in tests later one cardiologist said borderline pulmonary hypertension, another said not really, ignore it and enjoy hockey. Where's IBM's Watson? Veterinarian said very similar tests for animals on very similar machines would cost $850.
 
1) we know from examples like East/West Germany that communists live at about 20% of capitalist standards of living,

2) recent survey of routine appendectomy surgery is socialist CA showed range of $5k to $55k,

3) CBS evening news this week had story about how shopping for drugs reduced price from $700 to $42 for one prescription,

4) neighbor recently complained to Dr. about shortness of breath while playing ice hockey. $11,000 in tests later one cardiologist said borderline pulmonary hypertension, another said not really, ignore it and enjoy hockey. Where's IBM's Watson? Veterinarian said very similar tests for animals on very similar machines would cost $850.

So tell us how you're going to shop around while you're having a heart attack.
 
So tell us how you're going to shop around while you're having a heart attack.

you don't need to shop around to know that price of a Rolls Royce is super high. Do you understand?
 
He just did - go to the veterinarian instead.

or, go to a human Dr. who in a capitalist environment charges the same prices for the same work. Makes sense?
 
or, go to a human Dr. who in a capitalist environment charges the same prices for the same work. Makes sense?

If not for insurance then that would more likely be the case. Most folks do not shop for actual medical care providers they shop for medical care insurance. If you pay $200/month for insurance and have a $2K annual deductible then whether procedure X costs the insurance company $3K or $5K is not much of an issue since, either way, you paid $4,400 for your medical care.
 
you don't need to shop around to know that price of a Rolls Royce is super high. Do you understand?

Do you understand that the rest of the first-world democracies pay FAR less for their medicine and health care than we do? Do you realize that our Big Pharma still makes plenty of profit in those other nations, so why is it that they charge so much more here? Especially when the regulatory agencies are so much stronger in other nations? And it was the Republicans who passed a law stating that Medicare WAS NOT ALLOWED TO NEGOTIATE LOWER PRICES with Big Pharma. You know that, don't you? Your tax dollars at work!
 
Do you understand that the rest of the first-world democracies pay FAR less for their medicine and health care than we do?

sure there are 2 reason:
1) they are poorer than we are so cant afford as much as we can. We have as many cat scannners in Pittsburg as they have in all of Canada for example.

2) they have more efficient forms of socialism than we do.
 
Do you realize that our Big Pharma still makes plenty of profit in those other nations, so why is it that they charge so much more here? !

1) they charge each country according to its income

2) plenty of profit?? but not enough to come up with a cure for cancer and heart disease yet. So you see plenty means nothing whatsoever so please don't use it again.
 
And it was the Republicans who passed a law stating that Medicare WAS NOT ALLOWED TO NEGOTIATE LOWER PRICES with Big Pharma. You know that, don't you? Your tax dollars at work!

Republicans believe in the free market. Do you want soviet govt negotiating our car prices too?

notice you were unable to say why you don't support capitalist health care. Why not discuss it with your teacher?
 
Republicans believe in the free market. Do you want soviet govt negotiating our car prices too?

notice you were unable to say why you don't support capitalist health care. Why not discuss it with your teacher?

Last I recall, "negotiation" was part of the free market...and NOT ALLOWING negotiation was socialism.

Methinks you've got it just backwards....
 
Last I recall, "negotiation" was part of the free market...and NOT ALLOWING negotiation was socialism.

Methinks you've got it just backwards....
actually when free people or consumers negotiate that is capitalism. when govt does, it is not. Do you understand? Ever see a capitalist country where govt negotiates car prices?
 
If not for insurance then that would more likely be the case. Most folks do not shop for actual medical care providers they shop for medical care insurance. If you pay $200/month for insurance and have a $2K annual deductible then whether procedure X costs the insurance company $3K or $5K is not much of an issue since, either way, you paid $4,400 for your medical care.

Insurance providers are not giving you the best price as people are finding out.
The hospital might advertise x the insurance will pay y but the cash price is z which is many times lower than the insurance price sometimes 60-80% lower.

The only time it is helpful is when it involves copay.
 
actually when free people or consumers negotiate that is capitalism. when govt does, it is not. Do you understand? Ever see a capitalist country where govt negotiates car prices?

"Government of the people, for the people, by the people".

I know this may come as a complete shock to you, but "the government" is not a faceless machine - it's PEOPLE...and if you work in the government for a while, you'll find that many (if not most) government workers are conservative. The overwhelming majority of government workers do not want our taxpayer dollars wasted...

...which is precisely what you just advocated, that companies should be allowed to rip off the American taxpayers by charging as much as they want...and you can't say that the government would just "go get it from somebody else" because a heckuva lot of medicines out there are proprietary, available from single sources.

But I guess allowing businesses to rip off the American taxpayer is okay with you...after all, that's essentially hat you just said.
 
...which is precisely what you just advocated, that companies should be allowed to rip off the American taxpayers by charging as much as they want..
the pure beauty of Republican capitalism is that you always have to charge less than the competition or be driven into bankruptcy. Do you understand now?
 
"a heckuva lot of medicines out there are proprietary, available from single sources.
.

if so then govt should encourage competition so market will set price at lowest price possible. This is why capitalism makes us rich and why communism makes people poor. Do you understand?
 
". you'll find that many (if not most) government workers are conservative. The overwhelming majority of government workers do not want our taxpayer dollars wasted...

wrong of course!!


There Are More Republicans in Federal Government Than You Might ...
404 - GovExec.com
Aug 14, 2015 - Top-level management is more likely to lean to the left, with 49 percent of GS-15 and Senior Executive Service employees identifying or leaning Democrat and 40 percent Republican. Respondents serving as GS-14s and below saw a 44/38 split toward Democrats. Federal employees appear to be as ...
 
the pure beauty of Republican capitalism is that you always have to charge less than the competition or be driven into bankruptcy. Do you understand now?

Sounds nice in theory, but not so much in reality when when Big Pharma corporations collude to raise prices. It's sorta hard to find better deals when everyone who's selling decide to work together to raise prices.

But I'm sure that's all just more "fake news" to you.
 
Sounds nice in theory, but not so much in reality when when Big Pharma corporations collude to raise prices. It's sorta hard to find better deals when everyone who's selling decide to work together to raise prices.

But I'm sure that's all just more "fake news" to you.


I understand that pharma companies are an easy target. But lets look at some specifics if you want to debate the issue:

- Drugs are a relatively small part of the total cost of health care.

- Yes, because our patents are not protected in many countries overseas, drugs are sold cheaper in foreign lands than the U.S. How does this get fixed?

- Some drugs like the one that CURED a type of hepatitis C had a high initial sticker price but saved the country billions/

- Because insurance pays, people may pay $300K for a drug that might extend life for three months sounds insane to me.

- The new FDA head is doing a good job of bringing new generics onto the market and lowering prices.

- The cost of R&D and testing for a new drug is staggering and the time to bring something to market is very long. If we don't allow some few companies to hit home runs when they have a breakthrough drug that helps thousands or millions of folks what happen to innovation.

So yes it is easy to be critical of this high profile industry. But I hear few real alternatives.
 
Sounds nice in theory, but not so much in reality when when Big Pharma corporations collude to raise prices. It's sorta hard to find better deals when everyone who's selling decide to work together to raise prices.

But I'm sure that's all just more "fake news" to you.

price collusion is illegal and both sides agree it ought to be. Our subject is whether capitalist health care would reduce prices 80% and add 10-20 years to our life expectancy?

Fake news is not about price collusion but rather about extreme left wing bias. Do you understand? Who told you it was about collusion?
 
So yes it is easy to be critical of this high profile industry. But I hear few real alternatives.

Yes, libcommies are really down on drug industry, and all industry. I'm sure that will lead to new drugs that will save their liberal lives when the time comes!
 
price collusion is illegal and both sides agree it ought to be. Our subject is whether capitalist health care would reduce prices 80% and add 10-20 years to our life expectancy?

Fake news is not about price collusion but rather about extreme left wing bias. Do you understand? Who told you it was about collusion?

Do YOU understand that there's nothing wrong with the government being able to negotiate prices? Our government negotiate prices on almost everything you care to name, from stealth bomber parts to fire trucks to diapers...and it's ONLY with Big Pharma that Medicare is not allowed to negotiate. The VA, DOD, and every other department in our government that purchases medicine negotiates...except for Medicare.

What's happening here is you're trying SO doggone hard to make an excuse for the inexcusable.
 
Do YOU understand that there's nothing wrong with the government being able to negotiate prices?

do you mean for cars healthcare everything?? Are you a communist??
 
What's happening here is you're trying SO doggone hard to make an excuse for the inexcusable.
Sorry I'm not a communist. I know capitalism works better. China just switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of all the poverty on earth after 60 million starved to death under communism. Do you understand?
 
Sorry I'm not a communist. I know capitalism works better. China just switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of all the poverty on earth after 60 million starved to death under communism. Do you understand?

China's essentially been capitalist since the 1990's. In fact, if you'll do a bit of traveling among the third-world democracies, you'll find that the great majority of them are very capitalist, and face much less regulation than ours does here in America.

Hey, guy, ask yourself this: what democracies have the highest standard of living, and what do the economies and governments of those democracies have in common?
 
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