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The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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[h=1]The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare[/h]
Don’t tell anyone, but American conservatives will soon be embracing single-payer healthcare, or some other form of socialized healthcare.
Yes, that’s a bold claim given that a GOP-controlled Congress and President are poised to un-socialize a great deal of healthcare, and may even pull it off. But within five years, plenty of Republicans will be loudly supporting or quietly assenting to universal Medicare.
And that’s a good thing, because socializing healthcare is the only demonstrably effective way to control costs and cover everyone. It results in a healthier country and it saves a ton of money.
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Maybe when some real conservatives, that is to say fiscal conservatives are elected, the US will join the 21st. century world and pass universal health care.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare[/h]



Maybe when some real conservatives, that is to say fiscal conservatives are elected, the US will join the 21st. century world and pass universal health care.
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With the 'all talk zero walk' conservative crowd, the first thing you'll hear is "SOCIALISM!!!"

They live in a fact free world. They have a brittle, utterly artificially structured world that prevents them from seeing anything as possible that threatens their mental security that's propped up by that world.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
With the 'all talk zero walk' conservative crowd, the first thing you'll hear is "SOCIALISM!!!"

They live in a fact free world. They have a brittle, utterly artificially structured world that prevents them from seeing anything as possible that threatens their mental security that's propped up by that world.
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horsecrap/ Some of us actually take the constitution seriously and tire of people pretending that anything that feels good is constitutional
 
TurtleDude said:
I continue to be amazed by this novel libertarian perspective.

you do know its income redistribution at its big government worst
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It's freedom to leave the corporate world and start a business without having to lay out a thousand bucks a month for a D grade health care package. It's freedom to take a job and start working your way up the ladder without having to lose Medicaid. It's freedom from spending 18% of the GDP of this great nation on health care, a lot of it going to line the pockets of insurance execs and pharma CEOs.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare[/h]



Maybe when some real conservatives, that is to say fiscal conservatives are elected, the US will join the 21st. century world and pass universal health care.
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Why do supporters of UHC always, nearly always use that appeal to popularity to push this.
Just because everyone and their grandma does something, doesn't mean you should.

That is not, is not the only way to do things, it's the simple minded way to do so.
There are still going to be debates over funding, coverage, etc. when UHC/Single payer passes.

It will never end.
 
TurtleDude said:
horsecrap/ Some of us actually take the constitution seriously and tire of people pretending that anything that feels good is constitutional
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I hear you. There is nothing in the Constitution about an interstate highway system, an FAA, or purchasing Alaska.
 
TurtleDude said:
horsecrap/ Some of us actually take the constitution seriously and tire of people pretending that anything that feels good is constitutional
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Did I say you numbered among that august body? Newp. Not horsecrap in the least

That is exactly what most of the lockstep, Know-Nothing types will do when/if something like this is seriously proposed.

It has nothing to do with feeling good; it has everything to do making a healthier, more cost efficient society. Spare me the bull**** about 'wealth distribution'. It's been going on forever; it just depends on whose ox is getting gored.
 
I view UHC as the same as the legalization of gay marriage. It will be an eventual reality for the primary reason that society has and will continue to erode and the concept of personal responsibility will become more and more archaic. Throw in to the mix the fact that the health care system has been forever thrown into sheer chaos by poorly written and poorly conceived legislation that most that voted for it didnt even know the content thereof and those that did know about it had to lie to get it passed.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It's freedom to leave the corporate world and start a business without having to lay out a thousand bucks a month for a D grade health care package. It's freedom to take a job and start working your way up the ladder without having to lose Medicaid. It's freedom from spending 18% of the GDP of this great nation on health care, a lot of it going to line the pockets of insurance execs and pharma CEOs.
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that concept of freedom is as idiotic as saying the Right to keep and bear arms means someone has to buy you a gun or that the right to worship means someone has to build you a church.
 
VanceMack said:
I view UHC as the same as the legalization of gay marriage. It will be an eventual reality for the primary reason that society has and will continue to erode and the concept of personal responsibility will become more and more archaic. Throw in to the mix the fact that the health care system has been forever thrown into sheer chaos by poorly written and poorly conceived legislation that most that voted for it didnt even know the content thereof and those that did know about it had to lie to get it passed.
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Primary reasons it will pass, eventually.

Medical care funding is complicated.
Everyone wants as much medical care as they can get.
No one wants to pay for it.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Did I say you numbered among that august body? Newp. Not horsecrap in the least

That is exactly what most of the lockstep, Know-Nothing types will do when/if something like this is seriously proposed.

It has nothing to do with feeling good; it has everything to do making a healthier, more cost efficient society. Spare me the bull**** about 'wealth distribution'. It's been going on forever; it just depends on whose ox is getting gored.
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sorry I don't buy into the socialist world vision. want healthcare? buy it yourself.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Primary reasons it will pass, eventually.

Medical care funding is complicated.
Everyone wants as much medical care as they can get.
No one wants to pay for it.
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too many years of too many justices who don't do their duty. CJ Roberts for example along with the four Democrat party hacks
 
TurtleDude said:
too many years of too many justices who don't do their duty. CJ Roberts for example along with the four Democrat party hacks
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What should happen is.
When the public says, "it's too hard to deal with, we want UHC/single payer."
Congress should say tough ****, you're an adult, you're supposed to handle these adult things in your lives.

Pass the bills to fix the last 80ish years of stupidity in medical legislation.
I know, wishful thinking, R's are cowards and won't bite the bullet, D's don't want to fix it anyway.
 
TurtleDude said:
that concept of freedom is as idiotic as saying the Right to keep and bear arms means someone has to buy you a gun or that the right to worship means someone has to build you a church.
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If you think that keeping welfare recipients on the dole so that they don't have to lose Medicaid is a good idea and good for liberty, then you have a point.

Did you read the link? What do you think about keeping American manufacturing more competitive in the world market?
 
TurtleDude said:
sorry I don't buy into the socialist world vision. want healthcare? buy it yourself.
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It always amazes me how aghast and offended some people are at the very thought of paying for any part of their own healthcare.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Primary reasons it will pass, eventually.

Medical care funding is complicated.
Everyone wants as much medical care as they can get.
No one wants to pay for it.
Click to expand...
At the current rate, I can see the 2020 elections resulting in a democrat majority and WH win. That is the purpose behind the constant barrage of hatred and the shrieks of The Russians!!! The Russians!!! It will be a Barry Sanders type. I can see the promise of free healthcare, enhanced welfare, and student loan debt forgiveness. And by 2025, we will become the economic equivalent of Greece.
 
TurtleDude said:
too many years of too many justices who don't do their duty. CJ Roberts for example along with the four Democrat party hacks
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Sure.
And, when the 20 year old kid (yes, kid) who didn't need health care rides his motorcycle into the ditch and is lying there bleeding, do we just leave him there?
When the 18 year old new mom's baby needs a heart operation to survive, do we let him die? Personal responsibility and all that, if you can't afford to fix that heart valve, too bad. Got diabetes? Too bad. Can't afford insulin? Tough. That's a pre existing condition. You should have taken out a health insurance policy that cost 1.5 x your net income.
 
TurtleDude said:
sorry I don't buy into the socialist world vision. want healthcare? buy it yourself.
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Nor do I! Glad we see eye to eye on that. Is Japan 'socialist'? How about Germany? France? Can you still buy private insurance there? Do you hear The Internationale when you step into a Dr.'s office or hospital in those countries?

Oh, and as a bonus: you just fell into the "BUT, BUT, BUT SOCIALISM!!" trap I just mentioned.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Sure.
And, when the 20 year old kid (yes, kid) who didn't need health care rides his motorcycle into the ditch and is lying there bleeding, do we just leave him there?
When the 18 year old new mom's baby needs a heart operation to survive, do we let him die? Personal responsibility and all that, if you can't afford to fix that heart valve, too bad. Got diabetes? Too bad. Can't afford insulin? Tough. That's a pre existing condition. You should have taken out a health insurance policy that cost 1.5 x your net income.
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See the thing is, people like yourself haven't figured out where the funding for the worlds medical research, including pharma R&D is going to come from.
Not only that but are we going to nationalize hospitals, if not how low will you be able to cut costs on providers before they stop doing medical work.
Many, many more things.

It's just smarmy cliché crap about "the rest of the developed world."
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Nor do I! Glad we see eye to eye on that. Is Japan 'socialist'? How about Germany? France? Can you still buy private insurance there? Do you hear The Internationale when you step into a Dr.'s office or hospital in those countries?

Oh, and as a bonus: you just fell into the "BUT, BUT, BUT SOCIALISM!!" trap I just mentioned.
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the government should not be taking money from some to provide healthcare to others

period
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
1 See the thing is, people like yourself haven't figured out where the funding for the worlds medical research, including pharma R&D is going to come from.
2 Not only that but are we going to nationalize hospitals, if not how low will you be able to cut costs on providers before they stop doing medical work.
Many, many more things.

3 It's just smarmy cliché crap about "the rest of the developed world."
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1. The US is funding the world's medical research? Really? If you can back that statement up, then we need to quit subsidizing the rest of the world. No wonder our medical costs are out of sight. Anyway, our pharmaceutical industry spends far more on marketing than it does on research.

2. You mean hospitals in France, (rated #1 by the WHO), Germany, England, and Canada are going under? Really? Let's see if you can back that one up.

3. We spend more on health care than any other nation in the developed world. How is that a "smarmy cliche?"
 
Dittohead not! said:
Sure.
And, when the 20 year old kid (yes, kid) who didn't need health care rides his motorcycle into the ditch and is lying there bleeding, do we just leave him there?
When the 18 year old new mom's baby needs a heart operation to survive, do we let him die? Personal responsibility and all that, if you can't afford to fix that heart valve, too bad. Got diabetes? Too bad. Can't afford insulin? Tough. That's a pre existing condition. You should have taken out a health insurance policy that cost 1.5 x your net income.
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I am curious, what exactly do you actually support in terms of libertarian ideals-sexual freedom? smoking herb?

here is a tough question-lets see how you can answer it

should society spend a million dollars to "fix" a child born with a condition that is 95% fatal even if 1 million is spent trying to correct it or should society spend that money on 100,000 vaccines that will stop widespread deaths from same influenza? once healthcare is provided by the public won't "the greatest good for the greatest number" dictate in favor of letting that child with the grave birth defect die?
 
TurtleDude said:
the government should not be taking money from some to provide healthcare to others

period
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Well, we'll just have to disagree on this one. What sort of aparatchik would I be if I objected to contributing to keeping the worst off members of our country dying in the streets and lessening the financial burden to middle class families of sudden/critical illnesses or injuries?

Why, I could never show my face at the politburo or at a May Day parade ever again! О нет!
 
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