• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Shifting Dollars From Poor to Rich Is a Key Part of the Senate Health Bill

ludin said:
They can't lose something that was never there's to begin with or do you not understand this concept?
Click to expand...

I'm sure your semantic arguments will be extremely fascinating to someone whose course of treatment is cut off by this bill. I personally find them tedious.
 
ludin said:
Frank and Dodd where the two that came out against any and all attempts to reign in Freddie and fanny.
Frank even came out multiple times claiming there was no issues and that republicans were just after poor people same ol tired argument.
Click to expand...

LOL.. Bull****.

We've discussed the 2008 crash many times here. From Phil Gramm's and the GOP's WS deregulation legislation that Bill Clinton signed. To the rating agencies stamping AAA on garbage. To the WS banks lying and committing forgery.. To the borrowers borrowing more that they could afford. PLENTY of blame to go around.

Funny thing is the rabid partisan hacks like you ALWAYS just blame the borrowers and the Dems. You refuse to blame the big boys, the banks, the rating agencies, the predator loans.... You guys NEVER never learn.

That's my whole point, until people like you learn that the GOP is NOT your friend, they only care about their rich donors who people like you DEFEND every time. Nothing will improve for the Middle Class.
 
Henrin said:
It's the American dream to keep your own property? Sure, that sounds pretty cool. The founding fathers did after all revolt over taxes.
Click to expand...
It's not your property if its the property of the government, stop with the juvenile debate stuff, you've been around long enough it's time to mature.

Who is gonna revolt Henrin, the top 0.01%? What does that even mean? They earn 99.9999% of those profits off the backs of the little people.
It's never the rich that revolt. Well, unless they convince the little people to die for them, as per usual I guess.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Until the Republican voter smartens up and starts voting for their OWN interest, their own well being and their own pocketbooks nothing is going to change. Right now they care more if gays marry then their own financial well being so the GOP and the rich who are running the GOP will continue to **** all over the Middle Class.

I'm afraid it's going to take another massive crash with the Republicans finger prints all over crash before the MC Republican wakes up. Of course by then they will be taken yet another beating of job loses and 401k's disappearing, but I don't see the Republican voter waking up without another serious global financial meltdown.

And we'll see the usual Republicans here defend this bill which gives the elite more money even as they say they voted for anti-elitist Trump.
Click to expand...

I have no faith in the average Republican voter. If the economy crashes they will blame Democrats and illegal immigrants.

However, just as an example, taking the truth of the '08 crash is a number of things. Repealing Glass-Steagall. Bond rating agencies rating garbage bonds at a AAA rating. Among other things. The '08 crash was not a partisan effort, and in my opinion, neither will a future crash. Although, if there is a crash, and I was the Democrats, I would bash the Republicans over the head, with their decision to repeal Dodd/Frank and tie them to all financial fallout. Even if it's not completely true. If the truth mattered a little bit pre-Trump, post-Trump the truth is like a rainbow unicorn, often whispered of, rarely seen. America needs a complete reset, no one tells the truth anymore, and everyone believes whatever explanation fits their narrative that Republicans are competent and right wing economics is smart.
 
Mach said:
It's not your property if its the property of the government, stop with the juvenile debate stuff, you've been around long enough it's time to mature.
Click to expand...

The government doesn't have any money.

Who is gonna revolt Henrin, the top 0.01%? What does that even mean? They earn 99.9999% of those profits off the backs of the little people.
Click to expand...

And? Voluntary exchange not going your way or something? Well, that sucks, but that's life, you know.
 
Winston said:
I have no faith in the average Republican voter. If the economy crashes they will blame Democrats and illegal immigrants.

However, just as an example, taking the truth of the '08 crash is a number of things. Repealing Glass-Steagall. Bond rating agencies rating garbage bonds at a AAA rating. Among other things. The '08 crash was not a partisan effort, and in my opinion, neither will a future crash. Although, if there is a crash, and I was the Democrats, I would bash the Republicans over the head, with their decision to repeal Dodd/Frank and tie them to all financial fallout. Even if it's not completely true. If the truth mattered a little bit pre-Trump, post-Trump the truth is like a rainbow unicorn, often whispered of, rarely seen. America needs a complete reset, no one tells the truth anymore, and everyone believes whatever explanation fits their narrative that Republicans are competent and right wing economics is smart.
Click to expand...

Repealing Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with the crash.
 
Helix said:
possibly, but i doubt it. no matter what this does to people, they can find a way to blame it on the other side. that cuts both ways, too.
Click to expand...

When it comes to Obama, that hate cuts deep with 30-40% of the GOP base. I think the Dems would work to fix ACA, but because Obama's name is on it the GOP refuses to try to fix it. They voted to defund it 60+ times. They've done everything they've can to undermined it and kill it. In the case of ACA it's now all a 1 way street.
 
Last edited:
Capitalism is largely shifting value from the poor to the rich, that's the name of the game.

Henrin said:
And? Voluntary exchange not going your way or something? Well, that sucks, but that's life, you know.
Click to expand...
There is nothing voluntary about the exchange of a poor person with few skills, trying to feed their family.
There is nothing voluntary about Microsoft using its lobbying power to get an exception that I cannot factually obtain without similar size/money as a small business.

No Henrin, I've been fortunate in my career and entrepreneurial endeavors, this is about giving back.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Shifting Dollars From Poor to Rich Is a Key Part of the Senate Health Bill




Both GOP bills in-toto amount to wealth redistribution masquerading as healthcare.


Additional: Who gets hurt and who gets helped by the Senate health care bill
Click to expand...

More accurately it shifts the costs to all medical care payers by increasing the level (and number) of non-subsidized payers. Since it is basically legal to "shoplift" essential medical care (per EMTALA) then those added care provider costs are passed on to all that do pay them including the working poor.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
More accurately it shifts the costs to all medical care payers by increasing the level (and number) of non-subsidized payers. Since it is basically legal to "shoplift" essential medical care (per EMTALA) then those added care provider costs are passed on to all that do pay them including the working poor.
Click to expand...

What about the changes to Medicaid?
 
ludin said:
The article is as dishonest as the day is long.
But that is all we get out of the liberal media.

It gets rid of the taxes increases obama put on working people.
That is not a benefit of any kind so there the article is dishonest.

Higher taxes on healthcare companies was pretty stupid as well as those taxes get passed on as premium increases.

So really the bill just undoes the stupidity that obama implemented that isn't a benefit.
Click to expand...

But the Bill itself is straight forward ;)
 
Henrin said:
Repealing Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with the crash.
Click to expand...

LOL.. Of course you are going to say that, it was a Republican bill that repealed G-S. Funny thing is for years the Republicans here blamed ONLY Bill Clinton for signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act because that gutted G-S. Until it was pointed out to them that those 3 names, Gramm-Leach-Bliley, were all Republican Senators.

So now the story with the Republican apologists is G-S had nothing to do with the crash. LOL
 
Henrin said:
Repealing Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with the crash.
Click to expand...

Deregulation was the primary contributing factor to the crash. So, sorry, Henrin, the deregulation that libertarians support caused millions of people to lose their houses, jobs, and retirements.
 
Mach said:
Capitalism is largely shifting value from the poor to the rich, that's the name of the game.
Click to expand...

And the poor don't have much value, which is kind of why they are poor.

There is nothing voluntary about the exchange of a poor person with few skills, trying to feed their family.
Click to expand...

Old socialist argument is old. Just because they needed the money does not mean that they were forced to work. If they went looking for the job on their own two feet and no one was coercing them there then it was entirely voluntary. Socialist garbage like what you just said ignores reality.

There is nothing voluntary about Microsoft using its lobbying power to get an exception that I cannot factually obtain without similar size/money as a small business.
Click to expand...

See, there is a problem worth talking about.

No Henrin, I've been fortunate in my career and entrepreneurial endeavors, this is about giving back.
Click to expand...

It's about being forced to give back.
 
Winston said:
Deregulation was the primary contributing factor to the crash. So, sorry, Henrin, the deregulation that libertarians support caused millions of people to lose their houses, jobs, and retirements.
Click to expand...

That's cool. So what did Glass-Steagall do? After you explain that then maybe you can tell me how it was supposed to stop the '08 crash that was caused by a completely different thing.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
LOL.. Of course you are going to say that, it was a Republican bill that repealed G-S. Funny thing is for years the Republicans here blamed ONLY Bill Clinton for signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act because that gutted G-S. Until it was pointed out to them that those 3 names, Gramm-Leach-Bliley, were all Republican Senators.

So now the story with the Republican apologists is G-S had nothing to do with the crash. LOL
Click to expand...

What caused the banking crisis of the 1920's and early 1930's?
 
Henrin said:
That's cool. So what did Glass-Steagall do? After you do then maybe you can tell me how it was supposed to stop the '08 crash that dealt with a completely different thing.
Click to expand...

Glass-Steagal separated commercial and investment banks and repealing it was part of the broad deregulatory push in the 90's. Repealing the law allowed banks to become too big to fail, and pose a systemic risk. So, yes, it had something to do with the crash, but, thank you for making everyone revisit deregulation and commercial and investment banking.

You really showed me a thing or two.
 
Henrin said:
That's cool. So what did Glass-Steagall do? After you explain that then maybe you can tell me how it was supposed to stop the '08 crash that was caused by a completely different thing.
Click to expand...

Glass-steagall separated comercial banking from investment Banking and kept them as separate entities.

Also

The separation of commercial and investment banking prevented securities firms and investment banks from taking deposits, and commercial Federal Reserve member banks from:

dealing in non-governmental securities for customers

investing in non-investment grade securities for themselves

underwriting or distributing non-governmental securities

affiliating (or sharing employees) with companies involved in such activities
Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_legislation
 
You guys realize that key provisions of that law were called unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, right? Even if you guys are right there is no way to get that law back as it was.
 
Henrin said:
You guys realize that key provisions of that law were called unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, right? Even if you guys are right there is no way to get that law back as it was.
Click to expand...

And what does it make GOP senate bill? An abomination? A monstrosity?cruelty?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What about the changes to Medicaid?
Click to expand...

That is primarily what I am talking about - those that lose Medicaid subsidies will still use medical care providers, yet more likely at the ER or urgent care facilities which end up costing everyone more who buys care at those facilities. The best compromise, IMHO, would be to covert the PPACA expanded Medicaid coverage to become a "public option" but with a premium of at least 8% (of gross income) for those above the FPL.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is primarily what I am talking about - those that lose Medicaid subsidies will still use medical care providers, yet more likely at the ER or urgent care facilities which end up costing everyone more who buys care at those facilities. The best compromise, IMHO, would be to covert the PPACA expanded Medicaid coverage to become a "public option" but with a premium of at least 8% for those above the FPL.
Click to expand...

That does not explain the waivers to Medicaid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom