Republicare Revealed

ttwtt78640 · Mar 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
just to point out.. that's decrease in cost is not likely due to the costs of filing insurance claims etc. Its probably reflective of the reimbursement schedule that insurance companies have.

You would probably find out that for other things the cost the insured pay would be dramatically less than you would pay out of pocket for.

Maybe so but I can only attest to what services I know the prices for at the Austin Regional Clinic. I doubt that insurance companies get more than a 25% discount considering the hassle involved in filing "coded" claims and waiting for payment.

chromium · Mar 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
yeah no. this bankruptcy thing is a bunch of BS. Medical bills are not generally the reason for bankruptcy.. not statistically. In fact,. in countries like Canada that have universal healthcare the medical bankruptcy rate is about the same as the US.https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/medical-bankruptcy-myth

what a bunch of bs that is - 643,000 Bankruptcies in the U.S. Every Year Due to Medical Bills

of those 643,000 - "Out-of-pocket medical costs averaged $17,943 for all medically bankrupt families" and "Hospital bills were the largest single out-of-pocket expense for 48.0% of patients"

Has Obamacare reduced medical bankruptcy? | The American Journal of Medicine Blog

That's more than just "some amount" as you imply

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 - #1 cause of bankruptcy

Reasons for the intentionally misleading conclusion on the paradoxical canadian medical bankruptcy takes a little digging. What i found is the bankruptcy forms do not differentiate between "I was doing nicely until I became so sick that I could no longer work, which pushed me into bankruptcy," verses "I was doing nicely until I was hit with doctor bills" Someone with an agenda will obviously decide that the first falls under medical bankruptcy. Also, canada doesn't cover drug costs for those under 65, or dental care. It's not truly universal coverage

Manc Skipper · Mar 8, 2017

Imagine hating Obama so much that you would destroy healthcare for millions of Americans just to spite him...

jaeger19 · Mar 8, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Maybe so but I can only attest to what services I know the prices for at the Austin Regional Clinic. I doubt that insurance companies get more than a 25% discount considering the hassle involved in filing "coded" claims and waiting for payment.

I'd bet that for some procedures.. you would pay way more without insurance.. as much as 50% more than you would with insurance.

jaeger19 · Mar 8, 2017

chromium said:
what a bunch of bs that is - 643,000 Bankruptcies in the U.S. Every Year Due to Medical Bills

of those 643,000 - "Out-of-pocket medical costs averaged $17,943 for all medically bankrupt families" and "Hospital bills were the largest single out-of-pocket expense for 48.0% of patients"

Has Obamacare reduced medical bankruptcy? | The American Journal of Medicine Blog

That's more than just "some amount" as you imply

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 - #1 cause of bankruptcy

Reasons for the intentionally misleading conclusion on the paradoxical canadian medical bankruptcy takes a little digging. What i found is the bankruptcy forms do not differentiate between "I was doing nicely until I became so sick that I could no longer work, which pushed me into bankruptcy," verses "I was doing nicely until I was hit with doctor bills" Someone with an agenda will obviously decide that the first falls under medical bankruptcy. Also, canada doesn't cover drug costs for those under 65, or dental care. It's not truly universal coverage

Yeah no. First I suggest that you read the article you linked to.

And on this tidbit you posted:

of those 643,000 - "Out-of-pocket medical costs averaged $17,943 for all medically bankrupt families" and "Hospital bills were the largest single out-of-pocket expense for 48.0% of patients"

Yeah.. could not find it ANYWHERE in the article you posted. Looked pretty hard to.. what I DID find in the article you posted was this:

From your article:

Research on medical bankruptcies has been controversial because it can be hard to untangle how medical bills fit into a family’s overall pattern of financial troubles. Twenty-nine percent of the people with medical bill problems said a family member had been forced to stop working or cut back on hours. (On the other side, about 41 percent of people said they’d taken on extra work to help pay bills.)

“Is that a job problem or a medical bill problem?” said David Himmelstein, a professor of public health at the City University of New York’s Hunter College School of Public Health who has studied medical bankruptcies. “It’s both of those things.”

Further

Dranove and Millenson critically analyzed the data from the 2005 edition of the medical bankruptcy study. They found that medical spending was a contributing factor in only 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies. They also reviewed other research, including studies by the Department of Justice, finding that medical debts accounted for only 12 percent to 13 percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.

Further:

More recently, a study in Cincinnati of bankruptcy filers seeking Legal Aid Society assistance in 2000–2001 found that 47 percent had “substantial” medical debt but that medical debt accounted for just 12 percent of their debt total.15

Further:

the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) responded to a request by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) by examining 5,203 bankruptcy cases from the files of the U.S. Trustee Program. The filings occurred between 2000 and 2002, the same time frame as the filings studied by Himmelstein and colleagues. The DOJ reported that 90 percent of filers had medical debt of less than $5,000. Of those reporting medical debts, those debts accounted for only 13 percent of total unsecured debt. The DOJ summarizes the evidence against Himmelstein and colleagues’ thesis as follows: “The conclusion that almost 50 percent of consumer bankruptcies are ‘medical related’ requires a broad definition and generally is not substantiated by the official documents filed by debtors

ttwtt78640 · Mar 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
I'd bet that for some procedures.. you would pay way more without insurance.. as much as 50% more than you would with insurance.

Name some.

chromium · Mar 8, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Name some.

yeah he really blows his cover as an insurance rep with that one. Everyone knows that doctor office offer discounts to the uninsured

ttwtt78640 · Mar 8, 2017

chromium said:
yeah he really blows his cover as an insurance rep with that one. Everyone knows that doctor office offer discounts to the uninsured

Hmm...

Half of U.S. doctors no longer accept Medicaid

Having a discount insurance card may not be the great deal which some think that it is. Rest assured that I would take a full fee customer over one that demands a 50% discount.

chromium · Mar 8, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm...

Half of U.S. doctors no longer accept Medicaid

Having a discount insurance card may not be the great deal which some think that it is. Rest assured that I would take a full fee customer over one that demands a 50% discount.

Yeah but those are all metro. If you can't find a specialist in one part of the city you can get on the bus to another. It's a different consequence entirely in rural areas. Where i was from you'd have to drive 100 miles to reach a rheumatologist who takes medicaid for example, and that was before Liebermancare. It's not realistic for the poor to afford visits like that on the regular. The state limitations on finding doctors is also a problem, one reason i want to get rid of states. Spending federal $ and allowing states to send patients 100 miles instead of 20 across the state line is crazy

But I have to contend with the claim in the link that the medicaid expansion wrecked medical access for the poor, who before that had nothing, not even the option to travel 100 miles. It was only for the elderly and permanently disabled.

jaeger19 · Mar 9, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Name some.

Hmmm.. like a total knee.

Kyphoplasty

Below knee amputation

and a myriad of other procedures. Especially those requiring a hospital stay.

Even MRI can be less.

I had a patient that needed an MRI and he decided to go shopping for the cheapest price.

He found a huge variety of prices.. from 1600 to 575.

the 575 was the cash price at an free standing imaging clinic. He wanted to pay his bill in cash but still wanted the amount sent to his insurance.. so it would get recorded on his deductible.

He found out that since he had blue cross, that the contracted rate for the MRI was 475! One hundred dollars less than the "CASH" price. And that's because the facility is willing to offer an even greater discount to Blue Cross.. because they get more volume from Blue Cross.

jaeger19 · Mar 9, 2017

chromium said:
yeah he really blows his cover as an insurance rep with that one. Everyone knows that doctor office offer discounts to the uninsured

Yeah.. but that's not true.

In fact.. in most instances the contracted rate with many insurances is less than what you would pay if you are uninsured.

Upfront.. in cash? Well that gets a little more interesting.. there is an incentive there.. but not always.

jaeger19 · Mar 9, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm...

Half of U.S. doctors no longer accept Medicaid

Having a discount insurance card may not be the great deal which some think that it is. Rest assured that I would take a full fee customer over one that demands a 50% discount.

what if accepting that insurance and that much lower rate that was still profitable.. tripled the number of patients you had?

Would you rather just have 10 patients paying 100 dollars.

OR still have those 10 patients paying 100 dollars.. AND have 20 more patients paying you 50 dollars (which is still profitable)?

coldjoint · Mar 9, 2017

SenorXm/Sirius said:
I see that right with my in-laws. They are on it, but because they are rabid Republicans and hate Obama's guts they spew the same hatred for Obamacare that they've heard Limbaugh, Fox, etc. spew about it for 6 years, word for word.

They almost went bankrupt about 15 years ago because of medical costs and bills. That scared them, so now they have ACA, but because it has that Black Guys name attached to it they hate it. lol

You can't make this stuff up.

Sure sounds like you can.

Greenbeard · Mar 9, 2017

chromium said:
You've neglected entirely the reduction in costs after the middle man (insurance CEOs) is removed.

Not at all! I explicitly mentioned that: "What do you think the administrative savings are from single-payer that people tout? They're layoffs to white collar and hourly people! "

Another consideration you've ignored is that by not putting 1/5 of their wages into insurance premiums, people have more spending $ which *helps* the non medical economy. It's similar idea to raising taxes on the rich to provide free college - more people with discretionary income along with a better trained and less ignorant society

I'm not suggesting that we want health care to keep growing as a share of the economy. I'm simply pointing out what cutting costs overnight means. It means jobs and paychecks go away. Because that's what the majority of the costs are.

Winston · Mar 9, 2017

SenorXm/Sirius said:
I see that right with my in-laws. They are on it, but because they are rabid Republicans and hate Obama's guts they spew the same hatred for Obamacare that they've heard Limbaugh, Fox, etc. spew about it for 6 years, word for word.

They almost went bankrupt about 15 years ago because of medical costs and bills. That scared them, so now they have ACA, but because it has that Black Guys name attached to it they hate it. lol

You can't make this stuff up.

Poll: ?Obamacare? vs. ?Affordable Care Act? ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

According to a new CNBC poll that surveyed two different groups, 46% of the group that was asked about "Obamacare" was opposed to the law, while 37% of the group asked about the "Affordable Care Act" was opposed to the law.

Republicare Revealed

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

chromium

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member

jaeger19

jaeger19

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

chromium

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

chromium

jaeger19

jaeger19

jaeger19

coldjoint

Greenbeard

Winston

Give me convenience or give me death