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Crippling Debt from Doctor Visits

I very much appreciate your sharing this ...which compelled me to leave my 1st post here..

Right now we are on a similar income -with a # of children where I would be so pleased if a bill was only $2,000... and very thankful... though my husband is facing a job lay off where RR unemployment is a fraction of what he is currently making... he will go from $60,0000 a year to $360 a week.. with 2 sons in college right now... scrambling to find a full time job with the Medical Benefits - fearing if there is any lapse in coverage and God Forbid, a health crisis...we could loose everything we own..

I am not familiar with "The Marketplace" or deadlines ....I doubt we will quality for Medicaid.. so we are at the mercy of finding something "affordable".. our income will be cut more than $30,000 a year when he is laid off... We live in a high unemployment area, it's very difficult to find "livable wage" jobs, without a degree under your belt and experience...(I never went to college)... My husband is 53.. he's got his age against him...

I've told my family.. if it ever came to such a desperate situation -where they'd take our house & property that we worked our lives for because I came down with cancer & we had no health care... I'd end my life.. it's not worth the aggravation.. what would be lost..I get the feeling by reading many many articles & posts by mostly those on the republican side.. they are OK with people dying -due to being too poor, lazy, stupid... This bothers me and stings a great deal as I do not look upon humanity like this...

In comparison to those poor lazy people who own NEW vehicles & nice toys... our vehicles are very old.. (2) 1997's...and a 2001 CRV- we bought used for our sons to drive to college.. last week the CV joint busted on the way to College... thankfully they weren't going fast..we do not live in luxury or waste our money in any way.. its why we own a home & Property free & clear.... we have a credit rating of 820 and have always lived within our means.. paid all our bills on time.. but what has primarily afforded us this .. is having an affordable health care plan for our family..

I am tremendously worried and stressed if/when he is laid off if we can't find a Job that can carry our family --thankfully we are ALL healthy individuals and rarely use it.. but we know how life is.. that could change in a second...

I personally know people who just can't afford to live -their health coverage is more than they make in a week's income...with deductibles so high they wouldn't even go to the Doctor.. I know a man who I think has skin cancer on his face.. but his deductible is $10,000... he won't go....he probably makes $50,000 a year with 2 kids at home... I fear for people like this...

Hello there. I am very sorry to read about your situation. This particular thread became awfully personal and mean spirited, in my opinion. I prefer to think about what systems work the best for the most people and I believe the U.S. is far inferior to those systems that have developed in other countries. For one thing, our system places a heavy burden on people who happen to lose their job, have jobs w/o benefits or are self-employed. When are people most likely to lose work or be unable to perform their duties? When they are sick or injured! Medicaid traditionally did not come to the rescue until a person had exhausted their savings. I think the A.C.A. changed that in the states that expanded medicaid- I don't know what state you live in...
 
My granddaughter has an inoperable brain tumor and has been on chemo a LOT. It has affected her physically, at almost 18 she looks a good 6 years younger based on physical stature. She will probably never get to drive based on seizures that started after she had an offshoot of her tumor removed. She has had 3 shunts, I think she is about to have 1 removed, something is causing a lot of stomach pain. Her daddy's employer (school district) offered family health insurance that was over $1000 per month so they got a private policy to cover his wife and their 3 kids for about a third of that, with 100% coverage after deductible and copays. A cheaper option was the standard 80/20 plan. Good thing the 100% policy, just the 20% that would have been theirs to pay if they had chosen the 80/20 plan would have bankrupted them. Her meds are $12,000 per MONTH....
and it was a good thing they got the policy before being diagnosed. There was a several year gap before she got symptoms.

I get what you're saying, but look at the other flaws (which may be hard to see if you have never lived outside of the U.S.).

$12,000/month for medication? Nowhere else in the world would charge you that much money. There are generic versions of drugs that cost a lot less, but because of patent turn-over; pharmaceutical companies and the physicians colleges are working together to only push patent medicines; and because of anti-trade deals the U.S. has with drug producing companies, they remain outrageously priced. As soon as a drug patent expires they defer to the newer version because the system is neurotically pro-profit.

$1000/month for an insurance plan is also outrageous, even if you have a pre-existing condition. I live in Canada and because of government-subsidized care, the price of private policies has been driven way down.

What I'm trying to point out is that yes, in the U.S. you are responsible for getting insurance, but you are making the argument from within an extremely bloated, greedy and excessively bureaucratic health care system.

Nobody can implement reforms because the sacred cow of corporate profits won't allow it. As usual it all comes back to fiduciary responsibilities and detangling our government from the control of unelected people.
 
I very much appreciate your sharing this ...which compelled me to leave my 1st post here..

Right now we are on a similar income -with a # of children where I would be so pleased if a bill was only $2,000... and very thankful... though my husband is facing a job lay off where RR unemployment is a fraction of what he is currently making... he will go from $60,0000 a year to $360 a week.. with 2 sons in college right now... scrambling to find a full time job with the Medical Benefits - fearing if there is any lapse in coverage and God Forbid, a health crisis...we could loose everything we own..

I am not familiar with "The Marketplace" or deadlines ....I doubt we will quality for Medicaid.. so we are at the mercy of finding something "affordable".. our income will be cut more than $30,000 a year when he is laid off... We live in a high unemployment area, it's very difficult to find "livable wage" jobs, without a degree under your belt and experience...(I never went to college)... My husband is 53.. he's got his age against him...

I've told my family.. if it ever came to such a desperate situation -where they'd take our house & property that we worked our lives for because I came down with cancer & we had no health care... I'd end my life.. it's not worth the aggravation.. what would be lost..I get the feeling by reading many many articles & posts by mostly those on the republican side.. they are OK with people dying -due to being too poor, lazy, stupid... This bothers me and stings a great deal as I do not look upon humanity like this...

In comparison to those poor lazy people who own NEW vehicles & nice toys... our vehicles are very old.. (2) 1997's...and a 2001 CRV- we bought used for our sons to drive to college.. last week the CV joint busted on the way to College... thankfully they weren't going fast..we do not live in luxury or waste our money in any way.. its why we own a home & Property free & clear.... we have a credit rating of 820 and have always lived within our means.. paid all our bills on time.. but what has primarily afforded us this .. is having an affordable health care plan for our family..

I am tremendously worried and stressed if/when he is laid off if we can't find a Job that can carry our family --thankfully we are ALL healthy individuals and rarely use it.. but we know how life is.. that could change in a second...

I personally know people who just can't afford to live -their health coverage is more than they make in a week's income...with deductibles so high they wouldn't even go to the Doctor.. I know a man who I think has skin cancer on his face.. but his deductible is $10,000... he won't go....he probably makes $50,000 a year with 2 kids at home... I fear for people like this...

Just to point out mam.. If you came down with cancer and had no healthcare.. "they" could not "take your house and property". You would file for bankruptcy and your medical debt would be forgiven. Your house and personal property would be largely protected as would one car.

Secondly.. if you were making 30,000 with a family of four or more (you didn't say how many children you but at least two) you would likely qualify for Medicaid depending on your state..
 
I get what you're saying, but look at the other flaws (which may be hard to see if you have never lived outside of the U.S.).

$12,000/month for medication? Nowhere else in the world would charge you that much money. There are generic versions of drugs that cost a lot less, but because of patent turn-over; pharmaceutical companies and the physicians colleges are working together to only push patent medicines; and because of anti-trade deals the U.S. has with drug producing companies, they remain outrageously priced. As soon as a drug patent expires they defer to the newer version because the system is neurotically pro-profit.

$1000/month for an insurance plan is also outrageous, even if you have a pre-existing condition. I live in Canada and because of government-subsidized care, the price of private policies has been driven way down.

What I'm trying to point out is that yes, in the U.S. you are responsible for getting insurance, but you are making the argument from within an extremely bloated, greedy and excessively bureaucratic health care system.

Nobody can implement reforms because the sacred cow of corporate profits won't allow it. As usual it all comes back to fiduciary responsibilities and detangling our government from the control of unelected people.

It is a fairly new drug..and the tumor was not known to be there when my son's employer, a school district, wanted the $1000 per month for his wife and kids, so they found another company. 2 years later that insurer tried to dump the child, but couldn't prove that anyone knew of the tumor before it started causing symptoms. Then they tried to refuse the child her MRI exams while testing the new drug, which has been proven effective for other kinds of tumors and is working on hers. Good thing my son has fishing buddies who practice law for a living. They took her case for free.
 
It is a fairly new drug..and the tumor was not known to be there when my son's employer, a school district, wanted the $1000 per month for his wife and kids, so they found another company. 2 years later that insurer tried to dump the child, but couldn't prove that anyone knew of the tumor before it started causing symptoms. Then they tried to refuse the child her MRI exams while testing the new drug, which has been proven effective for other kinds of tumors and is working on hers. Good thing my son has fishing buddies who practice law for a living. They took her case for free.

I'm glad things are working out for your family, Bill. :)
 
I very much appreciate your sharing this ...which compelled me to leave my 1st post here..

Right now we are on a similar income -with a # of children where I would be so pleased if a bill was only $2,000... and very thankful... though my husband is facing a job lay off where RR unemployment is a fraction of what he is currently making... he will go from $60,0000 a year to $360 a week.. with 2 sons in college right now... scrambling to find a full time job with the Medical Benefits - fearing if there is any lapse in coverage and God Forbid, a health crisis...we could loose everything we own..

A small lapse in coverage is pretty unlikely to quickly result in "losing everything you own" unless you're already currently in the process racking up immense health care bills.

I am not familiar with "The Marketplace" or deadlines ....I doubt we will quality for Medicaid..

Find out. And if you don't, one or more of you might if you were to divorce and quietly continue cohabitating.

so we are at the mercy of finding something "affordable".. our income will be cut more than $30,000 a year when he is laid off...

Insurance under the new law is subsidized at somewhere between 2.5% and 9.5% of your modified adjusted gross income, meaning if you buy your own insurance, what you pay in premiums will be less than 10% of... whatever your income is, i.e. the less you make, the less you have to pay. That's a pretty screaming deal.

I've told my family.. if it ever came to such a desperate situation -where they'd take our house & property that we worked our lives for because I came down with cancer & we had no health care... I'd end my life..

Get a Medicaid divorce before you do that.

I am tremendously worried and stressed if/when he is laid off if we can't find a Job that can carry our family --thankfully we are ALL healthy individuals and rarely use it.. but we know how life is.. that could change in a second...

It could, but it's statistically unlikely.
 
They can force you so stay for weeks/months waiting for a medical procedure if they deem that you are too sick to leave (sure you can leave - but they threaten to put you 'at the bottom of the list' which is almost a death sentence...so no one dares leave). I knew people stuck in a Canadian hospital for over a month against their will - and they could not even leave the floor they were on...and they were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting.

This genuinely shocks me, however I see a contradiction in what you say.

" if they deem that you are too sick to leave" is not compatible with "and they were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting."

The phrase "and they were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting." suggests that they were not really that sick at all. People deemed to be "too sick to leave hospital" would normally be hooked up some kind of IV even even it was only hydration, and on a level of monitoring that involved vital signs and other nursing sueveillance or heavy nursing care. The trend is so much towards day hospital, hospital at home, local health centre etc. that in most countries actual inpatients are sicker now than they ever were OR they're dependant elderly bed blockers waiting for a social care package. It's really difficult to imagine a modern health care facility with relatively fit patients sitting around in beds waiting. I've worked with Canadian doctors and nurses both in the UK and France and they are very clinically able, hence I have trouble imagining them deeming patients who "were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting." as being too sick to leave hospital."

I'm not disputing what you say, but I'm very shocked. Can you expand?
 
This genuinely shocks me, however I see a contradiction in what you say.

" if they deem that you are too sick to leave" is not compatible with "and they were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting."

The phrase "and they were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting." suggests that they were not really that sick at all. People deemed to be "too sick to leave hospital" would normally be hooked up some kind of IV even even it was only hydration, and on a level of monitoring that involved vital signs and other nursing sueveillance or heavy nursing care. The trend is so much towards day hospital, hospital at home, local health centre etc. that in most countries actual inpatients are sicker now than they ever were OR they're dependant elderly bed blockers waiting for a social care package. It's really difficult to imagine a modern health care facility with relatively fit patients sitting around in beds waiting. I've worked with Canadian doctors and nurses both in the UK and France and they are very clinically able, hence I have trouble imagining them deeming patients who "were not hooked up to machines or anything. They were just sitting around...waiting." as being too sick to leave hospital."

I'm not disputing what you say, but I'm very shocked. Can you expand?

The people that were 'just sitting around waiting' were cardiac patients who were waiting for triple bypass operations and one guy was waiting for a pacemaker. They usually felt fine, but their arteries were so clogged that the hospital deemed it would be dangerous for them to leave before their operations. The truth was, the doctors did not want the blame if something went wrong and one of their patients died while resting at home. But that should be up to the patients, not the doctor's. The patients should be able to sign a waiver absolving the doctor's of responsibility if they wait at home for their operations. But that is not an option at Canadian hospital's - well, not in that province.
But unfortunately, there was a waiting list for the operations. So they just sat and waited.

The poor friend of mine I mentioned above was trapped for over a month. When they finally operated on him, there were complications. Less than a week later, they had to amputate his leg. A few days later, he died. All true.
And the whole time, he never was allowed to leave the hospital...even though during the month he was waiting, he felt practically fine. Certainly fine enough that he could have been resting at home.
But I guess the doctor's did not want to take the chance that he might die at home and they would get blamed.
It was a nightmare for the guy. And it made me furious.

I cannot say this happens in every province (this one was Newfoundland and Labrador - but at their top hospital) or at every hospital.

But it can and does happen.
 
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The people that were 'just sitting around waiting' were cardiac patients who were waiting for triple bypass operations. They usually felt fine, but their arteries were so clogged that the hospital deemed it would be dangerous for them to leave before their operations.
But unfortunately, there was a waiting list for the operations. So they just sat and waited.

The poor friend of mine I mentioned above was trapped for over a month. When they finally operated on him, there were complications. Less than a week later, they had to amputate his leg. A few days later, he died.
And the whole time, he never was allowed to leave the hospital...even though during the month he was waiting, he felt practically fine. Certainly fine enough that he could have been resting at home.
But I guess the doctor's did not want to take the chance that he might die at home and they would get blamed.
It was a nightmare for the guy.

I'm very sorry about your friend.

I understand better now, thanks. However, in clinical terms these patients were actually critically ill even if they didn't feel it. They may not have been exactly hooked up to life support but they will have been undergoing vital signs monitoring, regular blood tests, probably daily ECGs, daily evaluation by a doctor and would probably have had some kind of IV line that required nursing care and observation. They were legitimately kept in hospital, but yes, the waiting list issue is a big problem that the UK system also suffers from.

The problem is far less acute in France, but the reason for that is simple - higher funding into public hospitals. However that means electorally unpopular higher taxes. People in the UK consistantly vote for tax cuts and that has knock-on consequences. One can't usually have cake and cream.
 
I'm very sorry about your friend.

I understand better now, thanks. However, in clinical terms these patients were actually critically ill even if they didn't feel it. They may not have been exactly hooked up to life support but they will have been undergoing vital signs monitoring, regular blood tests, probably daily ECGs, daily evaluation by a doctor and would probably have had some kind of IV line that required nursing care and observation. They were legitimately kept in hospital, but yes, the waiting list issue is a big problem that the UK system also suffers from.

The problem is far less acute in France, but the reason for that is simple - higher funding into public hospitals. However that means electorally unpopular higher taxes. People in the UK consistently vote for tax cuts and that has knock-on consequences. One can't usually have cake and cream.

Thank you.

Nope...I was there. No IV lines, no EKG's and no daily blood tests (none that I saw or heard about) or any other tests and DEFINITELY NO daily doctor visits. That was the really frustrating part - they had to literally wait a day/days to see a doctor for 10 minutes - while in the hospital. The nurses said that the doctors were just too busy. Sure, if they had taken a turn for the worse, than a doctor would probably come by (I assume). But as long as they felt okay and their vitals were okay - they would not see a doctor for days - 24 hours absolute minimum....even if they asked to see one.
All these patients did was lie in bed, get fed, be given their pills at night and three times a day they had their blood oxygen, blood pressure and temperatures checked...all of which could have been easily done by them at home. It was ridiculous.

And again, this was in the province's top hospital - Health Sciences Centre in St. John's.

Canadian healthcare is designed for emergencies and GP visits. If you are REALLY sick - you get great, fast service. But if you are not in a life threatening situation - you are pushed back so that the truly sick ones can get emergency care. That is common knowledge in Canada.

If you need to see a GP or are near death - Canada is great and free.

But if you are somewhere in between - it can be hell. Free at least - but still hell - because you fall in between the cracks.
NEVER go an emergency room in a major urban area in Canada unless you have something truly serious - otherwise, you could literally be waiting for days to see a doctor. And I don't mean sniffles and colds. But if you have a simple broken bone/no complications/smallish bone, you could be waiting for over ten hours to see a doctor - I know people that have.
Sure, an RN will see you when you arrive. But if she deems it is not urgent, you could be waiting for days (certainly many, many hours) - in substantial pain - as the more urgent patients get looked at first.
My experience is that if you have to go to emergency in Canada but are non life-threatening...go around 4-6 a.m. when the emergencies are usually the most empty.

BTW - I should mention - drugs in hospitals are free. But drugs prescribed outside the hospital cost the full amount - unless you are on welfare.
 
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Thank you.

Nope...I was there. No IV lines, no EKG's and no daily blood tests (none that I saw or heard about) or any other tests and DEFINITELY NO daily doctor visits. That was the really frustrating part - they had to literally wait a day/days to see a doctor for 10 minutes - while in the hospital. The nurses said that the doctors were just too busy. Sure, if they had taken a turn for the worse, than a doctor would probably come by (I assume). But as long as they felt okay and their vitals were okay - they would not see a doctor for days - 24 hours absolute minimum....even if they asked to see one.
All these patients did was lie in bed, get fed, be given their pills at night and three times a day they had their blood oxygen, blood pressure and temperatures checked...all of which could have been easily done by them at home. It was ridiculous.

And again, this was in the province's top hospital - Health Sciences Centre in St. John's.

Canadian healthcare is designed for emergencies and GP visits. If you are REALLY sick - you get great, fast service. But if you are not in a life threatening situation - you are pushed back so that the truly sick ones can get emergency care. That is common knowledge in Canada.

If you need to see a GP or are near death - Canada is great and free.

But if you are somewhere in between - it can be hell. Free at least - but still hell - because you fall in between the cracks.
NEVER go an emergency room in a major urban area in Canada unless you have something truly serious - otherwise, you could literally be waiting for days to see a doctor. And I don't mean sniffles and colds. But if you have a simple broken bone/no complications/smallish bone, you could be waiting for over ten hours to see a doctor - I know people that have.
Sure, an RN will see you when you arrive. But if she deems it is not urgent, you could be waiting for days (certainly many, many hours) - in substantial pain - as the more urgent patients get looked at first.
My experience is that if you have to go to emergency in Canada but are non life-threatening...go around 4-6 a.m. when the emergencies are usually the most empty.

BTW - I should mention - drugs in hospitals are free. But drugs prescribed outside the hospital cost the full amount - unless you are on welfare.

A very wasteful system. Every hospitalised patient should get a doctor's visit every weekday and by the on-call intern at weekends if the nurses deem it's necessary. A cardiac patient waiting for bypass is either stable enough to be at home, and if they're not, when they're unstable they are usually very unstable. So yes, such "well" patients sitting around for nothing is not only very wasteful but clinically unjustifiable. I take your point, and I am very shocked this happens in Canada.
 
A very wasteful system. Every hospitalised patient should get a doctor's visit every weekday and by the on-call intern at weekends if the nurses deem it's necessary. A cardiac patient waiting for bypass is either stable enough to be at home, and if they're not, when they're unstable they are usually very unstable. So yes, such "well" patients sitting around for nothing is not only very wasteful but clinically unjustifiable. I take your point, and I am very shocked this happens in Canada.

Thanks for your opinion...I appreciate it.

The really crazy part about it was a male nurse there told me that they had a bed shortage in the city and that it cost $2200 per day to house someone there (with nothing else, just the bed/food/basics). He said it was crazy. There were people backed up in emergency waiting to get a bed on the cardiac floor - and many of those patients (though not all, of course) should be waiting at home.
Now this was as of two years ago. It maybe better now - but I doubt it.
 
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