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My recent real life healthcare experience..

imagep

imagep

Villiage Idiot
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Upstate SC
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I don't have insurance this year. I chose not to have insurance, because I've never really "needed" insurance. Insurance for my family, for a high deductible policy ($7,200/per person), is about $10,000/yr. During the superbowl, I fell and seperated my tricep muscle from the bone, and it had to be surgically reattached. Since I actually care about paying my bills, I waited to the next day to seek medical care, rather than a visit to the emergency room (nothing else open on a Sunday night).

the next day I called an orthopedic surgeon, and got an appointment with no referral from my family doctor (I didn't know exactly what was wrong with my arm, but I knew it was going to involve an orthopedist). I was told that I needed an MRI, so I priced shopped for an MRI, the local hospital wanted $2600, I found a specialty imaging company that did it for $450. The doc scheduled me for surgery at the hospital, I price shopped and found out that they were going to charge $36,000 for use of their facility, but I found a cheaper place less than a half mile away, an outpatient surgery center that only charged $3700 - that's a 90% discount. My surgeon had no issue with moving my surgery to the outpatient surgery center.

Then on the day of my surgery, the anesthesiologist told me that this procedure was very painful and that he normally did a pain block (in addition to knocking me out for the surgery) but he suggested that since I was self pay that they not do the pain block. I opted not to get the pain block, but when I awoke from the surgery, I had no pain at all, and never did have any significant pain. A friend of mine said that they had a pain block at the hospital and it was $4700. Seems like at least for my type of surgery, $4700 for something that may or may not be beneficial for a few hours is an absolute rip-off, especially since the doc told me that if I needed the pain block it could be done after the surgery instead of before the surgery.

Anyhow, my point is that when people don't have insurance, and actually have to pay their medical bills, they do price shop and they do make treatment decisions based upon price. If guberment would get the **** out of healthcare, we would have never had a healthcare crises to begin with, because the only crises we have is the price. Geesh, I almost sound like a conservative on this issue, except for the fact that most conservatives believe that the answer is more insurance. The answer isn't more insurance, it's getting rid of any type of health insurance other than catistrophic/long term care insurance.
 
imagep said:
I don't have insurance this year. I chose not to have insurance, because I've never really "needed" insurance. Insurance for my family, for a high deductible policy ($7,200/per person), is about $10,000/yr. During the superbowl, I fell and seperated my tricep muscle from the bone, and it had to be surgically reattached. Since I actually care about paying my bills, I waited to the next day to seek medical care, rather than a visit to the emergency room (nothing else open on a Sunday night).

the next day I called an orthopedic surgeon, and got an appointment with no referral from my family doctor (I didn't know exactly what was wrong with my arm, but I knew it was going to involve an orthopedist). I was told that I needed an MRI, so I priced shopped for an MRI, the local hospital wanted $2600, I found a specialty imaging company that did it for $450. The doc scheduled me for surgery at the hospital, I price shopped and found out that they were going to charge $36,000 for use of their facility, but I found a cheaper place less than a half mile away, an outpatient surgery center that only charged $3700 - that's a 90% discount. My surgeon had no issue with moving my surgery to the outpatient surgery center.

Then on the day of my surgery, the anesthesiologist told me that this procedure was very painful and that he normally did a pain block (in addition to knocking me out for the surgery) but he suggested that since I was self pay that they not do the pain block. I opted not to get the pain block, but when I awoke from the surgery, I had no pain at all, and never did have any significant pain. A friend of mine said that they had a pain block at the hospital and it was $4700. Seems like at least for my type of surgery, $4700 for something that may or may not be beneficial for a few hours is an absolute rip-off, especially since the doc told me that if I needed the pain block it could be done after the surgery instead of before the surgery.

Anyhow, my point is that when people don't have insurance, and actually have to pay their medical bills, they do price shop and they do make treatment decisions based upon price. If guberment would get the **** out of healthcare, we would have never had a healthcare crises to begin with, because the only crises we have is the price. Geesh, I almost sound like a conservative on this issue, except for the fact that most conservatives believe that the answer is more insurance. The answer isn't more insurance, it's getting rid of any type of health insurance other than catistrophic/long term care insurance.
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Sorry to hear you had an accident.
 
I can provide my own experience which is a similar injury but in a single-payer system. Do you know how much my surgery cost, 600$, for a shattered elbow. I didn't even have to pay it, Ontario did.
 
imagep said:
I don't have insurance this year. I chose not to have insurance, because I've never really "needed" insurance. Insurance for my family, for a high deductible policy ($7,200/per person), is about $10,000/yr. During the superbowl, I fell and seperated my tricep muscle from the bone, and it had to be surgically reattached. Since I actually care about paying my bills, I waited to the next day to seek medical care, rather than a visit to the emergency room (nothing else open on a Sunday night).

the next day I called an orthopedic surgeon, and got an appointment with no referral from my family doctor (I didn't know exactly what was wrong with my arm, but I knew it was going to involve an orthopedist). I was told that I needed an MRI, so I priced shopped for an MRI, the local hospital wanted $2600, I found a specialty imaging company that did it for $450. The doc scheduled me for surgery at the hospital, I price shopped and found out that they were going to charge $36,000 for use of their facility, but I found a cheaper place less than a half mile away, an outpatient surgery center that only charged $3700 - that's a 90% discount. My surgeon had no issue with moving my surgery to the outpatient surgery center.

Then on the day of my surgery, the anesthesiologist told me that this procedure was very painful and that he normally did a pain block (in addition to knocking me out for the surgery) but he suggested that since I was self pay that they not do the pain block. I opted not to get the pain block, but when I awoke from the surgery, I had no pain at all, and never did have any significant pain. A friend of mine said that they had a pain block at the hospital and it was $4700. Seems like at least for my type of surgery, $4700 for something that may or may not be beneficial for a few hours is an absolute rip-off, especially since the doc told me that if I needed the pain block it could be done after the surgery instead of before the surgery.

Anyhow, my point is that when people don't have insurance, and actually have to pay their medical bills, they do price shop and they do make treatment decisions based upon price. If guberment would get the **** out of healthcare, we would have never had a healthcare crises to begin with, because the only crises we have is the price. Geesh, I almost sound like a conservative on this issue, except for the fact that most conservatives believe that the answer is more insurance. The answer isn't more insurance, it's getting rid of any type of health insurance other than catistrophic/long term care insurance.
Click to expand...

An inspired, but flawed story; few people want to take care of themselves anymore. Why should they? They can vote for someone like Bernie who will make the RICH pay for their "needs, wants and desires".
 
Carjosse said:
I can provide my own experience which is a similar injury but in a single-payer system. Do you know how much my surgery cost, 600$, for a shattered elbow. I didn't even have to pay it, Ontario did.
Click to expand...

How much of your pay check is taxed?
 
Carjosse said:
I can provide my own experience which is a similar injury but in a single-payer system. Do you know how much my surgery cost, 600$, for a shattered elbow. I didn't even have to pay it, Ontario did.
Click to expand...

Where did ontario get the funds to pay your bill?
 
Carjosse said:
I can provide my own experience which is a similar injury but in a single-payer system. Do you know how much my surgery cost, 600$, for a shattered elbow. I didn't even have to pay it, Ontario did.
Click to expand...

yea, but single payer sucks, I know because conservatives constantly tell me that.
 
I go to a transplant center sooo that really is not something one can shop around.
 
On the flip side, my 6 year old daughter had a concussion two weeks ago, and the trip to the emergency room will be setting us back 459 clams for the deductible, but then, once that is paid, we can do ANYTHING we want for the rest of the year, with no deductible.


Total bill to the insurance company? 16,000. We looked at the bill, because I'm a curious sorta guy, and I came to the conclusion that hospitals are just absolutely FLEECING insurance companies. Basically, when you go to a hospital, every room has a fee, and every person in that room that you see or talk to, has a fee. From the receptionist, to the nurse, to the guy that brings you a gown, from the hallway to wait in, to the room you lay down on a bed in. If you get a paper cup of water from the tap, it's 20 bucks. So on and so forth.
 
Bootlace said:
Where did ontario get the funds to pay your bill?
Click to expand...

Canada doesn't actually have to "pay for it", they just electronically add digits to bank accounts. Canada issues the Canadian Dollar and they get dollars into the economy by spending (or loaning) them into the economy. Healthcare seems to me like a good way of spending those dollars into the economy.
 
KevinKohler said:
... I came to the conclusion that hospitals are just absolutely FLEECING insurance companies. ....
Click to expand...

I hope your daughter recovered well.

Yup, hospitals are fleecing insurance companies, and insurance companies really don't mind. They pretend to put up a fight, and then they "negotiate" the price downward. But the reality is that the higher the bill is, the more customers feel like they HAVE to have insurance, and the more the insurance company can charge. It's not a direct conspiracy, but it's still a conspiracy.

The concept of insurance is in itself contrary to capitalism.
 
Renae said:
How much of your pay check is taxed?
Click to expand...

More than Americans but I also get better other social services, overall we spend less on healthcare than Americans. Think of it as an investment, that 600$ surgery will let me finish university and go on to pay more taxes than that surgery cost instead of having to pay for welfare for the rest of my life. Healthcare is paid from the grater borg of government funding, so I do not see a straight deduction for healthcare.
 
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Carjosse said:
From millions of tax payers all paying fractions of fractions of a cent for my 600$ surgery.
Click to expand...

I'm sure all those tax payers are glad that they could help.
 
KevinKohler said:
On the flip side, my 6 year old daughter had a concussion two weeks ago, and the trip to the emergency room will be setting us back 459 clams for the deductible, but then, once that is paid, we can do ANYTHING we want for the rest of the year, with no deductible.
Click to expand...

I recommend hip replacement surgery.

Total bill to the insurance company? 16,000. We looked at the bill, because I'm a curious sorta guy, and I came to the conclusion that hospitals are just absolutely FLEECING insurance companies. Basically, when you go to a hospital, every room has a fee, and every person in that room that you see or talk to, has a fee. From the receptionist, to the nurse, to the guy that brings you a gown, from the hallway to wait in, to the room you lay down on a bed in. If you get a paper cup of water from the tap, it's 20 bucks. So on and so forth.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a joke. I'll try not to butcher it.

A couple are rushing to the hospital while she's in labor. They get out of the car and run to the emergency room. They get to the lawn but she can't go any further. The staff rushes out and she gives birth right there on the lawn. They take them inside and everything is fine. A month later they get the bill and the husband looks at it. Right at the bottom is a fee for $2,500 for delivery room service. The husband calls to complain and they say they'll fix the bill. A month later he gets another bill and the dilivery room fees are replaced with $1,000 for green fees.

And old golf joke.
 
imagep said:
I hope your daughter recovered well.

Yup, hospitals are fleecing insurance companies, and insurance companies really don't mind. They pretend to put up a fight, and then they "negotiate" the price downward. But the reality is that the higher the bill is, the more customers feel like they HAVE to have insurance, and the more the insurance company can charge. It's not a direct conspiracy, but it's still a conspiracy.

The concept of insurance is in itself contrary to capitalism.
Click to expand...

Which is where single-payer comes in, the government can say we are willing to pay this price for this drug or service and if you do not like it you can go **** yourself and we will go with your competition.
 
Carjosse said:
More than Americans but I also get better other social services, overall we spend less on healthcare than Americans. Think of it as an investment, that 600$ surgery will let me finish university and go on to pay more taxes than that surgery cost instead of having to pay for welfare for the rest of my life.
Click to expand...

You are paying for welfare, the rest of your life. What's sad is that you think you have it good, making others pay for and care for you. You think it's good that freedom equals less pay, fewer choices and the government "caring" for you.

I pity you.
 
Carjosse said:
Which is where single-payer comes in, the government can say we are willing to pay this price for this drug or service and if you do not like it you can go **** yourself and we will go with your competition.
Click to expand...

And the Government can tell you "No you cannot have this treatment. It costs too much/isn't worth it/you are too old/you didn't live a properly healthy life..."
 
Renae said:
You are paying for welfare, the rest of your life. What's sad is that you think you have it good, making others pay for and care for you. You think it's good that freedom equals less pay, fewer choices and the government "caring" for you.

I pity you.
Click to expand...

They pay for my care and I pay for theirs, it reduces costs for everyone. I have more freedom than an American, I have more freedom to move form job to job because I do not care about healthcare coverage. I know I am covered no matter what, and whether or not I can afford insurance. I do not have to choose between food and health coverage.
 
Renae said:
And the Government can tell you "No you cannot have this treatment. It costs too much/isn't worth it/you are too old/you didn't live a properly healthy life..."
Click to expand...

No they cannot, it does not happen. They are obligated to by the Canada Health Act.
 
Renae said:
And the Government can tell you "No you cannot have this treatment. It costs too much/isn't worth it/you are too old/you didn't live a properly healthy life..."
Click to expand...

An Insurance company can do that too.
 
imagep said:
yea, but single payer sucks, I know because conservatives constantly tell me that.
Click to expand...

Single payer is fine provided you're willing to accept a few disadvantages, which may include long waiting times for clinic visits, tests and procedures, a distinct lack of cutting edge care and treatment, a limited formulary (the list of drugs that doctors can use), and shorter survival for cancer and certain other complex but rare conditions.

In the UK people are fine with it because everyone else is in the same boat. I'm not sure what the situation is in Canada, but at least as of about 10 years ago there were only a few MRI machines for the country and getting one might take a year. Most of the time people just don't get one while in the US MRIs for lots of things are routine and every hospital of any size has at least one.

I emphasize that the only time it makes a difference in health is when one has a complex disease that's difficult to treat. In that case the UK just writes you off while survival in the US is much better. Overall, single payer is probably better for the greater number of people because they are better at treating chronic conditions like diabetes and hypertension.
 
imagep said:
I don't have insurance this year. I chose not to have insurance, because I've never really "needed" insurance. Insurance for my family, for a high deductible policy ($7,200/per person), is about $10,000/yr. During the superbowl, I fell and seperated my tricep muscle from the bone, and it had to be surgically reattached. Since I actually care about paying my bills, I waited to the next day to seek medical care, rather than a visit to the emergency room (nothing else open on a Sunday night).

the next day I called an orthopedic surgeon, and got an appointment with no referral from my family doctor (I didn't know exactly what was wrong with my arm, but I knew it was going to involve an orthopedist). I was told that I needed an MRI, so I priced shopped for an MRI, the local hospital wanted $2600, I found a specialty imaging company that did it for $450. The doc scheduled me for surgery at the hospital, I price shopped and found out that they were going to charge $36,000 for use of their facility, but I found a cheaper place less than a half mile away, an outpatient surgery center that only charged $3700 - that's a 90% discount. My surgeon had no issue with moving my surgery to the outpatient surgery center.

Then on the day of my surgery, the anesthesiologist told me that this procedure was very painful and that he normally did a pain block (in addition to knocking me out for the surgery) but he suggested that since I was self pay that they not do the pain block. I opted not to get the pain block, but when I awoke from the surgery, I had no pain at all, and never did have any significant pain. A friend of mine said that they had a pain block at the hospital and it was $4700. Seems like at least for my type of surgery, $4700 for something that may or may not be beneficial for a few hours is an absolute rip-off, especially since the doc told me that if I needed the pain block it could be done after the surgery instead of before the surgery.

Anyhow, my point is that when people don't have insurance, and actually have to pay their medical bills, they do price shop and they do make treatment decisions based upon price. If guberment would get the **** out of healthcare, we would have never had a healthcare crises to begin with, because the only crises we have is the price. Geesh, I almost sound like a conservative on this issue, except for the fact that most conservatives believe that the answer is more insurance. The answer isn't more insurance, it's getting rid of any type of health insurance other than catistrophic/long term care insurance.
Click to expand...

Amen brother. Sing the good word.:agree
 
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