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Thread: Vaccines and a culture of fear

  1. #41
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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The sign of a fanatic. You're right there is no middle ground between totalitarian and forcing people to get their shots. The constitutionality of mandatory vaccinations is well established with the primary grey area being whether or not a religious exemption is required and what sort of test is needed to prove that.
    Really... Constitutionality. Can you show where the Constitution states mandatory vaccinations are necessary please.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Really... Constitutionality. Can you show where the Constitution states mandatory vaccinations are necessary please.
    Supreme Court *yawn*.

  3. #43
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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Supreme Court *yawn*.
    Supreme Court does not equal the Constitution - so in fact you were inaccurate.

    What SCOTUS ruling do you think embodies mandatory vaccinations and fines for not having them then?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Supreme Court does not equal the Constitution - so in fact you were inaccurate.

    What SCOTUS ruling do you think embodies mandatory vaccinations and fines for not having them then?
    Actually if you're so interested I have a great article summarizing relevant case law. Luckily we can have mandatory vaccination policies and many municipalities do! Even more fortunate is that it is becoming more common. =)

    Vaccination mandate exemptions: gimme that ol

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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Actually if you're so interested I have a great article summarizing relevant case law. Luckily we can have mandatory vaccination policies and many municipalities do! Even more fortunate is that it is becoming more common. =)

    Vaccination mandate exemptions: gimme that ol
    There are a lot of cases listed.. My question was which case do you think embodies vaccinations and fines for not having them?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    There are a lot of cases listed.. My question was which case do you think embodies vaccinations and fines for not having them?
    Translation: I'm mad that there is ample precedent for its legality therefore my strategy of last resort is to ask you to parse case law with me.

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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Agreed Radcen.

    I think I heard on the TV news regarding the measles outbreak that some of the current victims were vaccinated. If true, was it a bad batch? Or should we consider a booster type vaccine for measles?

    My dad was a doctor, so we were vaccinated for everything, and I can remember receiving the occasional tetanus 'booster' shot, as we were raised on a river, frequently going barefoot and getting cut on shells and such.
    I felt like your comment was a good jumping off point for what I wanted to say. Every time an outbreak of a vaccine-preventable disease happens, anti-vaxxers cry out "but some of the infected people were vaccinated! So see, vaccines don't work that well after all!" (Not claiming you were saying this) But what they are missing are the rates of infection. Most people are vaccinated, and vaccines are usually effective somewhere above 95% of the time. So sure, you do have a small number of vaccinated people that end up infected. But compare infection rates in the following example:

    Say 10,000 people visited Disneyland during the measles exposure period. The percentage of unvaccinated people in California is about 2%, so we can assume about 200 people there were unvaccinated. So say 10 people wind up with measles; 5 were vaccinated and 5 weren't. Someone might look at this and think "hey, it's the same number on both sides. WTF vaccines?!" But when you look at infection rates, you can 5/200 or a 0.025% infection rate for unvaccinated people who were at the park during that period, and 5/9,800 or 0.00051% of vaccinated people there who got sick. That's a magnitude difference of 50. 50!!!

    A fun fact about measles is that without heard immunity, the infection rate is 90%. It's one of the most contagious diseases there is. As heard immunity breaks down due to lack of vaccination, the rate of measles will grow exponentially. Which sucks pretty badly for those of us being responsible and getting our shots.

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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Translation: I'm mad that there is ample precedent for its legality therefore my strategy of last resort is to ask you to parse case law with me.
    Apparently it is too difficult to pick a case out of the link the best court case. Next time - don't willy nilly cite the Constitution on material you are not familiar. I'll look elsewhere for a discussion with someone who actually knows the material. Have a nice day!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
    I felt like your comment was a good jumping off point for what I wanted to say. Every time an outbreak of a vaccine-preventable disease happens, anti-vaxxers cry out "but some of the infected people were vaccinated! So see, vaccines don't work that well after all!" (Not claiming you were saying this) But what they are missing are the rates of infection. Most people are vaccinated, and vaccines are usually effective somewhere above 95% of the time. So sure, you do have a small number of vaccinated people that end up infected. But compare infection rates in the following example:

    Say 10,000 people visited Disneyland during the measles exposure period. The percentage of unvaccinated people in California is about 2%, so we can assume about 200 people there were unvaccinated. So say 10 people wind up with measles; 5 were vaccinated and 5 weren't. Someone might look at this and think "hey, it's the same number on both sides. WTF vaccines?!" But when you look at infection rates, you can 5/200 or a 0.025% infection rate for unvaccinated people who were at the park during that period, and 5/9,800 or 0.00051% of vaccinated people there who got sick. That's a magnitude difference of 50. 50!!!

    A fun fact about measles is that without heard immunity, the infection rate is 90%. It's one of the most contagious diseases there is. As heard immunity breaks down due to lack of vaccination, the rate of measles will grow exponentially. Which sucks pretty badly for those of us being responsible and getting our shots.
    Your example is correct, but you forgot to move your decimals. It should be 2.5% for unvaccinated people and 0.051% for vaccinated.
    The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit. - Milton Friedman

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    Re: Vaccines and a culture of fear

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The stupid put countless others at risk. This Dr knows it.
    Aside from his absurdity about CPS, I have no issue what so ever with the Doc's stance regarding his practice
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    In fact, I would wager to you that within 10 years of today's date that stupid MAGA hat will be registered as a symbol of hate on par with a Swastika.
    "That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved." - Benjamin Franklin

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