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First Time Gun Buyers Like Semi Automatic Handguns

Cordelier said:
The CZ P09's were the plastic crap variant of the 75, so I doubt if they were too far off the SIG's weight.
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They were a decent gun but I don't think they sold well. I had one that would not fire from the double action position-my dealer sent it back, CZ USA sent me an entirely new pistol, Now the P10 is a very good pistol
 
TurtleDude said:
They were a decent gun but I don't think they sold well. I had one that would not fire from the double action position-my dealer sent it back, CZ USA sent me an entirely new pistol, Now the P10 is a very good pistol
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Meh... no hammer.

I actually prefer a little weight in a gun - makes'em less twitchy... If I'm gonna shoot 9mm, give me a good old fashioned steel 75.
 
Cordelier said:
Meh... no hammer.

I actually prefer a little weight in a gun - makes'em less twitchy... If I'm gonna shoot 9mm, give me a good old fashioned steel 75.
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I agree, which is why I shoot the CZ pistols in steel competition. For carrying, its a light SIG 365. the main Home defense pistol is a big heavy CZ SP 01 with a 19 round Mec-Gar competition mag with a light on the rail
 
TurtleDude said:
I agree, which is why I shoot the CZ pistols in steel competition. For carrying, its a light SIG 365. the main Home defense pistol is a big heavy CZ SP 01 with a 19 round Mec-Gar competition mag with a light on the rail
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My home defense is a Tomahawk. Plus a knife if there's more than one.
 
Cordelier said:
My home defense is a Tomahawk. Plus a knife if there's more than one.
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ah interesting, I actually did some training from a LaGana disciple with one of the ATC tomahawks. All the years of competitive racket sports, I had a pretty strong wrist snap. But I stick to firearms, though I do carry a knife constantly.
 
TurtleDude said:
ah interesting, I actually did some training from a LaGana disciple with one of the ATC tomahawks. All the years of competitive racket sports, I had a pretty strong wrist snap. But I stick to firearms, though I do carry a knife constantly.
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Well, unless you live alone and you're not in an apartment, I just figure unsecured guns are just as dangerous to your family members as they are to any intruders.

Besides... if someone breaks into your house, it's personal. And guns are so... impersonal.
 
Cordelier said:
Well, unless you live alone and you're not in an apartment, I just figure unsecured guns are just as dangerous to your family members as they are to any intruders.

Besides... if someone breaks into your house, it's personal. And guns are so... impersonal.
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My wife and I live in a home on 26 acres. My son-who has a carry permit and is a professional level speed shooter (22 years old) and his soon to be 21 year old GF are about the only people who are in our house, save a lady who helps my wife with some cleaning (and she has a carry permit as well),
 
TurtleDude said:
My wife and I live in a home on 26 acres. My son-who has a carry permit and is a professional level speed shooter (22 years old) and his soon to be 21 year old GF are about the only people who are in our house, save a lady who helps my wife with some cleaning (and she has a carry permit as well),
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5 people - at least 3 of which are armed - on a relatively isolated property in the dead of night. What could go wrong?
 
Cordelier said:
5 people - at least 3 of which are armed - on a relatively isolated property in the dead of night. What could go wrong?
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the police station is 3 minutes away, The EMT 800 yards. My son has his own house.

Do you worry about breaking your fingers while tying your shoes?
 
Cordelier said:
I'm thinking more Lynyrd Skynyrd:

"So, don't ask me no questions
And I won't tell you no lies
So, don't ask me about my business
And I won't tell you goodbye"
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So if you're flying to your next concert venue, don't ask if the plane is serviceable.
 
TurtleDude said:
the police station is 3 minutes away, The EMT 800 yards. My son has his own house.

Do you worry about breaking your fingers while tying your shoes?
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No, I don't... but by the same token, I don't usually tie my shoes while I'm standing in a bear trap either.

Look, it's your life, live it the way you want.... but hypothetical situation - your son and his GF have a major fight - things start getting highly emotional, pottery gets broken, what have you.... so she storms out and for whatever reason storms over to your house - maybe trying to get in from the rain. So your housekeeper wakes up from a deep sleep, hears her trying to get in, and in a panic and without thinking, mistakes her for a burglar and blows her head off. Couldn't that be a realistic possibility?
 
Court Jester said:
What is the handgun's intended use for this 'first time' gun owner? To join Seal Team 6, or for personal home protection up close and personal... as in 10 feet or less?
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Guess

I'll give you a clue, the user won't be any form of marine life (Sea Lion, Walrus etc)


It all comes down to your willingness to train.
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Let's assume zero or minimal training/practice at best


Why would it need to be pointed down range with the action open during re-loading?
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The location of the bad guy in your living room...you know just forget it, if you can't understand the importance of this, just recuse yourself from the debate (we weren't talking about practice on a range, hence the inverted commas)

So much fail


Clearly you are just trolling. NOBODY but NOBODY would ever describe a double action revolver as more complicated than a semi-automatic pistol. NOBODY.
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Well it is a lot more complicated to use than an semi-automatic pistol
(for reasons explained)


The rest of your post is ignored.
 
Rich2018 said:
Guess

I'll give you a clue, the user won't be any form of marine life (Sea Lion, Walrus etc)





Let's assume zero or minimal training/practice at best




The location of the bad guy in your living room...you know just forget it, if you can't understand the importance of this, just recuse yourself from the debate (we weren't talking about practice on a range, hence the inverted commas)

So much fail




Well it is a lot more complicated to use than an semi-automatic pistol
(for reasons explained)


The rest of your post is ignored.
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Sorry, but if you are going to continue to claim that a revolver is much more complicated to use than a semi-automatic only on the basis of reloading with a box magazine rather than reloading a revolver, then you have simply ignored all of the facts and answers already presented to you. Besides more functions to learn with a semi-automatic, more of those functions and features have the ability to malfunction due to lack of maintenance (because we are discussing people with zero or little training) compared to a revolver. First time gun owners with "zero or minimal training" are the people YOU just mentioned, so then it is those factors to be considered in the comparison between the two types of guns..... and how someone under stress will react to and overcome---- or likely NOT overcome the possible malfunction.

So either get serious and debate the topic, or stop trolling for attention.
 
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Rich2018 said:
Guess

I'll give you a clue, the user won't be any form of marine life (Sea Lion, Walrus etc)





Let's assume zero or minimal training/practice at best




The location of the bad guy in your living room...you know just forget it, if you can't understand the importance of this, just recuse yourself from the debate (we weren't talking about practice on a range, hence the inverted commas)

So much fail




Well it is a lot more complicated to use than an semi-automatic pistol
(for reasons explained)


The rest of your post is ignored.
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A revolver more complicated to use?

I will have to disagree with that. I feel a double action revolver is safer and much easier to operate than any semi-auto pistol.

To be safe and comfortable with an autoloader takes practice. Hell lots of people can't even rack the slide. Clearing a jam takes training. It is easy to get your hand positioned incorrectly and catch that slide.

With a shrouded hammer revolver you can shoot through a coat locker or purse without worrying about a jam.

No comparison between the two and I own and shoot both. I do prefer my .45 1911 for shooting but for everyday carry my S&W airweight is preferred
 
Court Jester said:
Sorry, but if you are going to continue to claim that a revolver is much more complicated to use than a semi-automatic only on the basis of reloading with a box magazine rather than reloading a revolver, then you have simply ignored all of the facts...
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That's a pretty big "fact" and just by itself makes a revolver more complicated to use than a semi-automatic


Besides more functions to learn with a semi-automatic...
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Er, like what ?


So either get serious and debate the topic, or stop trolling for attention.
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....
 
rickc said:
A revolver more complicated to use?
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Yes

If a new gun owner buys his/her first hand gun, having never fired before, they should get a semi-automatic gun rather than a revolver


I will have to disagree with that. I feel a double action revolver is safer and much easier to operate than any semi-auto pistol.
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I would disagree on both counts, a revolver is not safer, nor is it by any means, easier to operate


To be safe and comfortable with an autoloader takes practice....
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Not really, it takes a lot more practice to be comfortable with a revolver


Hell lots of people can't even rack the slide.
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Source ?
Evidence ?


Clearing a jam takes training.
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Well I suppose if you used an obsolete antique like the M-1911 you might expect it to jam

Not a modern semi-automatic like a Glock


It is easy to get your hand positioned incorrectly and catch that slide.
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Maybe for you

(personally I've never had this issue)


With a shrouded hammer revolver you can shoot through a coat locker or purse without worrying about a jam.
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"At least one person says that you should get a revolver for self defense because “revolvers don’t jam.”


Revolver and Firearm Myths | USCCA Gun Education.


Revolvers can and do fail
Read myth #1



No comparison between the two and I own and shoot both. I do prefer my .45 1911 for shooting but for everyday carry my S&W airweight is preferred
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Your preference for an M-1911 might explain why you might think a revolver is safer/simpler....and given the choice between it and a revolver, I probably would take a revolver.
 
Rich2018 said:
That's a pretty big "fact" and just by itself makes a revolver more complicated to use than a semi-automatic




Er, like what ?




....
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Stop trolling. You aren't even that good at it.
 
Firearm Myth #1: Revolvers Don’t Jam

Most often uttered by seasoned shooters, the belief is that unlike a modern semi-automatic pistol, a revolver is a foolproof piece of engineering. It’s a nice thought, and it is true that if your revolver doesn’t set off a cartridge a simple pull of the trigger brings a new round under the hammer.
The problem is that like any other piece of machinery, a revolver can fail. The disadvantage to a revolver is that when it fails it usually requires tools to fix! Like a semi-automatic pistol, the most common point of failure in a revolver is the ammunition. If you have a dud primer, it’s simple to pull the trigger and bring a fresh round under the hammer.

But what if your malfunction is something else? Probably the most common problem with revolvers is extracting the spent cases. The more a wheelgun is shot, the dirtier the chambers become; over time, this can foul extraction and lead to a gun that you can’t reload. Worse yet, you can have a case fail, as I did once. The steel case of a round of Wolf 230 gr. FMJ cracked in the gun and couldn’t be extracted without banging the ejector rod with a mallet.

The second most common type of failure in a revolver also involves extraction of cases. The critical component of ejecting spent cases from a revolver is the ejector star, which pushes the cases free and then snaps back to its original position for reloading—unless you get a flake of unburned powder under the star! Then you won’t be able to close the cylinder and get your gun back into action without first brushing out the area under the star. Revolvers can also suffer from parts breakages just like semiautomatic pistols, as things like springs and screws are just as susceptible to wear and tear in a wheelgun as they are in a 1911.

Other maladies are unique to revolver shooters. One of the most interesting is “pulled bullets,” which occurs generally when shooting extremely lightweight revolvers such as a scandium framed J-frame with potent ammunition such as full-power .357 Magnum loads. If the bullet crimp isn’t tight enough, the obscene recoil can actually cause the bullet to move forward in the case which will lock up the cylinder.

Also unique to revolvers is the “bent moonclip” situation. This occurs primarily on competition guns, where a moonclip which holds six rounds of .45 ACP together for use in a revolver is slightly bent. The rounds load just fine, but eventually the bent clip will prevent the cylinder from advancing. While most common in competition guns, there are quite a few models of defensive revolver from Smith & Wesson that also use moonclips.

A moment’s inattention during loading can create a malfunction that cannot be cleared with a tap-rack-bang. This round was loaded incorrectly into the magazine, and has now partially lodged in the chamber..."


Revolver and Firearm Myths | USCCA Gun Education


So Revolvers DO jam.
 
Cordelier said:
Meh... no hammer.

I actually prefer a little weight in a gun - makes'em less twitchy... If I'm gonna shoot 9mm, give me a good old fashioned steel 75.
Click to expand...

In '89 Germany, suddenly NIB CZ-75s were available through the Rod and Gun Clubs for like 125 bucks, extra mag included. I always have wished I bought the 2ea that were allowed for import back to the states. Prior to that, as a Warsaw Pact gun I believe they were almost unobtainable.
 
Rich2018 said:
Firearm Myth #1: Revolvers Don’t Jam

Most often uttered by seasoned shooters, the belief is that unlike a modern semi-automatic pistol, a revolver is a foolproof piece of engineering. It’s a nice thought, and it is true that if your revolver doesn’t set off a cartridge a simple pull of the trigger brings a new round under the hammer.
The problem is that like any other piece of machinery, a revolver can fail. The disadvantage to a revolver is that when it fails it usually requires tools to fix! Like a semi-automatic pistol, the most common point of failure in a revolver is the ammunition. If you have a dud primer, it’s simple to pull the trigger and bring a fresh round under the hammer.

But what if your malfunction is something else? Probably the most common problem with revolvers is extracting the spent cases. The more a wheelgun is shot, the dirtier the chambers become; over time, this can foul extraction and lead to a gun that you can’t reload. Worse yet, you can have a case fail, as I did once. The steel case of a round of Wolf 230 gr. FMJ cracked in the gun and couldn’t be extracted without banging the ejector rod with a mallet.

The second most common type of failure in a revolver also involves extraction of cases. The critical component of ejecting spent cases from a revolver is the ejector star, which pushes the cases free and then snaps back to its original position for reloading—unless you get a flake of unburned powder under the star! Then you won’t be able to close the cylinder and get your gun back into action without first brushing out the area under the star. Revolvers can also suffer from parts breakages just like semiautomatic pistols, as things like springs and screws are just as susceptible to wear and tear in a wheelgun as they are in a 1911.

Other maladies are unique to revolver shooters. One of the most interesting is “pulled bullets,” which occurs generally when shooting extremely lightweight revolvers such as a scandium framed J-frame with potent ammunition such as full-power .357 Magnum loads. If the bullet crimp isn’t tight enough, the obscene recoil can actually cause the bullet to move forward in the case which will lock up the cylinder.

Also unique to revolvers is the “bent moonclip” situation. This occurs primarily on competition guns, where a moonclip which holds six rounds of .45 ACP together for use in a revolver is slightly bent. The rounds load just fine, but eventually the bent clip will prevent the cylinder from advancing. While most common in competition guns, there are quite a few models of defensive revolver from Smith & Wesson that also use moonclips.

A moment’s inattention during loading can create a malfunction that cannot be cleared with a tap-rack-bang. This round was loaded incorrectly into the magazine, and has now partially lodged in the chamber..."


Revolver and Firearm Myths | USCCA Gun Education


So Revolvers DO jam.
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So are you going to point out the poster who claimed that revolvers are immune to any sort of malfunction, or are you going to beat your strawman some more?
 
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