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Proper Treatment Of Those Who Switch Sides

Drawdown said:
don't know either but it is first indication i have seen about how this crisis may be affecting crime rates
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I guess it's affecting trials too

Maybe because there are less target for criminals to aim at ?


Everyone is home.
 
Rich2018 said:
I guess it's affecting trials too

Maybe because there are less target for criminals to aim at ?


Everyone is home.
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Our state supreme court has issued an order staying court cases except in emergencies or to insure rights are protected for bond, speedy trials, etc., and automatically tolling any statute of limitations for so long as the emergency order is in effect. Think I read somewhere they extended it to the end of April. It is why evictions are on hold.
 
Rich2018 said:
Do you think most gun sales are done with cash ?

I have wonder how old you are to have never had a credit card refund - the most common type of refund
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I see you mistook my cash on hand and shorten to cash to mean physical bills. I am thinking more the amount of funds that would be tied up by such a refund program that wouldn't be able to be used for such things as payrol, expansion, remodels, computing or tracking systems.

If someone buys a gun only to return it, doesn't that mean they realize they didn't need it ?
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Hard question to answer because we dont currently allow such refunds and track why. But I would guess financial reasons lead to most gun sells after a disaster.
Maybe Turtledude is right and gun shops need a rental business too ?
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I am all for such a service.



Not the panic buyers

And if someone had taken years to come to a decision on buying a gun, wouldn't they be able to factor in a waiting period of a couple of months ?
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A few months what kind of idiot is proposing such foolishness. I don't support waiting periods of any kind so you're never going to get me to agree to this being needed, useful, or justifiable.

It's called buyer's remorse and happens all the time over many things from tattoos to houses
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And is there some mandated refund on those items if not then what do they have to do with the topic of mandated refunds on guns.


How about the fear being stoked by the media showing empty shelves in supermarkets and long lines outside gun shops ?
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Maybe more people need to turn off their TV and stop gobbling the up doom and gloom being feed to them.

No it's not...but it would be a good idea.
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It's a horrible idea but thanks for presenting it as a good example of what not to do.
 
Chillfolks said:
I see you mistook my cash on hand and shorten to cash to mean physical bills. I am thinking more the amount of funds that would be tied up by such a refund program that wouldn't be able to be used for such things as payrol, expansion, remodels, computing or tracking systems.
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Nice try at backtracking


You said:

what do you expect people are going to want as a refund?
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People will not want or expect CASH as a refund

They'll expect the money credited back to their credit/debit cards
Payroll etc is also paid without cash

Cash is paper money. If you see a sign of a supermarket line "Cash Only", it means you can't use your card

Gun shops like any business will have a loan arrangement with the bank to go into the red if needed

Hard question to answer because we dont currently allow such refunds and track why. But I would guess financial reasons lead to most gun sells after a disaster.
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So after the COVID-19 pandemic, you think if some new gun owners sell their guns it's because their priorities have changed
They'd rather have the money back than the gun
QED: They've just realized they don't need the gun (and want other things far more). Because if they needed the gun, it would still top their priorities


A few months what kind of idiot is proposing such foolishness. I don't support waiting periods of any kind so you're never going to get me to agree to this being needed, useful, or justifiable.
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I'm proposing them to protect people from "buyers remorse" - especially in times like this when a non-rational, panic purchases happen
You're against people returning their guns for a refund and for immediate possession of the gun
No cooling off period
So if buy a gun, you're immediately stuck with your decision. People need food and medical supplies - especially with 10 million Americans just thrown out of work


And is there some mandated refund on those items if not then what do they have to do with the topic of mandated refunds on guns.
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That buyer's remorse is real and people need to be protected from themselves

What about the dependents who might go hungry because daddy had a panic attack and spent half their money on a gun he will never need and never use ?


Maybe more people need to turn off their TV and stop gobbling the up doom and gloom being feed to them.
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Or maybe news programs need to be less sensationalist - but that's hard as no-one will watch boring news
The news networks whose lead story every night is a double homicide and home invasion will get the viewers


It's a horrible idea but thanks for presenting it as a good example of what not to do.
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In your opinion

It would be a great idea for ordinary people, a horrible idea for peddlers of guns and manufacturers of guns perhaps.
 
Rich2018 said:
Nice try at backtracking


You said:



People will not want or expect CASH as a refund

They'll expect the money credited back to their credit/debit cards
Payroll etc is also paid without cash

Cash is paper money. If you see a sign of a supermarket line "Cash Only", it means you can't use your card

Gun shops like any business will have a loan arrangement with the bank to go into the red if needed



So after the COVID-19 pandemic, you think if some new gun owners sell their guns it's because their priorities have changed
They'd rather have the money back than the gun
QED: They've just realized they don't need the gun (and want other things far more). Because if they needed the gun, it would still top their priorities




I'm proposing them to protect people from "buyers remorse" - especially in times like this when a non-rational, panic purchases happen
You're against people returning their guns for a refund and for immediate possession of the gun
No cooling off period
So if buy a gun, you're immediately stuck with your decision. People need food and medical supplies - especially with 10 million Americans just thrown out of work




That buyer's remorse is real and people need to be protected from themselves

What about the dependents who might go hungry because daddy had a panic attack and spent half their money on a gun he will never need and never use ?




Or maybe news programs need to be less sensationalist - but that's hard as no-one will watch boring news
The news networks whose lead story every night is a double homicide and home invasion will get the viewers





In your opinion

It would be a great idea for ordinary people, a horrible idea for peddlers of guns and manufacturers of guns perhaps.
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Why just guns?

If it's such a great idea then it should apply across the board. Buy a new car-have buyer's remorse 6 months later- return it for a full refund.

Then rinse and repeat. Damn good idea Rich. Everyone can drive a new car at all times. Or a new 4WD pickup.

So why just guns?
 
Drawdown said:
Our state supreme court has issued an order staying court cases except in emergencies or to insure rights are protected for bond, speedy trials, etc., and automatically tolling any statute of limitations for so long as the emergency order is in effect. Think I read somewhere they extended it to the end of April. It is why evictions are on hold.
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Sorry, you're saying your state supreme court has ordered speedy trials?

I guess the jury box is spread out into the closed public seating area.
 
TurtleDude said:
3) maybe if you really want to help, the get congress to pass a law that allows people to rent firearms and when they are no longer in fear, the lease will be up
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Basically that's the same as buying a gun and selling it back at a used price.
 
Artymoon said:
Should be a drinking game. Everytime Rich states that someone has created a strawman, bottoms up. Could get ugly...
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Or it could be bottoms up every time Rich asks for evidence for something that's obvious, although we would probably all get alcohol poisoning in that case.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
"everything after the Tenth Amendment is invalid" etc etc.
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I wouldn't say everything after the Tenth Amendment is invalid.

What I do say is the Tenth Amendment and everything before it is scribed in stone, what with it being the BOR.
 
Rich2018 said:
They're victims of the fear being peddled.


Congress should pass a law that a gun shop selling a gun, during this pandemic, MUST buy it back for the SAME price once the pandemic is declared over by the WHO.
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Guns, like any other mechanical asset, depreciate in value over time. How long would the buyback period be post-declaration? Six months? A year? A decade?
 
Rich2018 said:
If someone buys a gun only to return it, doesn't that mean they realize they didn't need it ?
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Guns are not like most other hardware appliances and tools that you can return for a full refund if you decide you don't need it. Once you buy a gun it is considered used and its value diminishes. You can sell it back but it would be at a used price and would be significantly less than what you paid for it. Just like cars, you can't return a car to a dealership after you buy it and drive it off the lot. You can sell it as a used car but it would be for significantly less than what you paid for it, even if you've hardly driven it.
 
Drawdown said:
don't know either but it is first indication i have seen about how this crisis may be affecting crime rates
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From what I've seen crime rates have gone up and criminals are becoming more bold. There was a case in a Walgreens in San Francisco where a couple filled bags full of unpaid merchandise and walked out with them like it was all fine and dandy.
 
Chillfolks said:
I see you mistook my cash on hand and shorten to cash to mean physical bills. I am thinking more the amount of funds that would be tied up by such a refund program that wouldn't be able to be used for such things as payrol, expansion, remodels, computing or tracking systems.
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Bingo. And it appeared to have flown right over Rich2018's head.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Bingo. And it appeared to have flown right over Rich2018's head.
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It's typical of Rich to play dumb and try and pick a nit rather than admit his plan would create a serious financial burden in gun owners who would be required to keep cash on hans for redunds that could of been used elsewhere to grow the business.



It's not surprising that he would want to hurt and industry that he degrades by calling them peddlers of guns and considers any to ne associated with the industry as not to be ordinary.
Rich2018 said:
It would be a great idea for ordinary people, a horrible idea for peddlers of guns and manufacturers of guns perhaps.
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DebateChallenge said:
Guns are not like most other hardware appliances and tools that you can return for a full refund if you decide you don't need it...
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It depends on store policy


Once you buy a gun it is considered used and its value diminishes....
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And a lawnmower isn't ?


You can sell it back but it would be at a used price and would be significantly less than what you paid for it....
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Depending on store policy


...you can't return a car to a dealership after you buy it and drive it off the lot....
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Depending on dealership policy



I am proposing a 12 month "cooling off" period for gun sales


If gun owners are right, very few if any gun buyers will return their gun. And the occasional one that does clearly has decided that he/she does not need it.


So why not ?
 
Chillfolks said:
It's typical of Rich to play dumb and try and pick a nit rather than admit his plan would create a serious financial burden in gun owners who would be required to keep cash on hans for redunds that could of been used elsewhere to grow the business.
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Cash means paper money - you thought this was true when you exclaimed:


what do you expect people are going to want as a refund?
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But I seem to have found a chink in your armor:

Position 1: Very few gun owners would return their guns. Post #20:

Besides, if the gun lobby is right, these new gun owners will not sell their new guns, and they will see their value
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Position 2: Gun owners face serious financial shortfalls with new gun owners returning guns. Post #65

His plan would create a serious financial burden
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So which is it ?




It's not surprising that he would want to hurt and industry that he degrades by calling them peddlers of guns and considers any to ne associated with the industry as not to be ordinary.
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Anyone buying a gun is an "ordinary" person

Make the $Billion companies pay and maybe they're not be so quick to peddle their wares.
It might work better than opening arms companies up to litigation.
 
Rich2018 said:
Cash means paper money - you thought this was true when you exclaimed:







But I seem to have found a chink in your armor:

Position 1: Very few gun owners would return their guns. Post #20:




Position 2: Gun owners face serious financial shortfalls with new gun owners returning guns. Post #65





So which is it ?







Anyone buying a gun is an "ordinary" person

Make the $Billion companies pay and maybe they're not be so quick to peddle their wares.
It might work better than opening arms companies up to litigation.
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How about a comparamise.


The Federal Government offers a full refund on any gun purchase up to a year after its purchase. You would have to pay to have it mailed to a location upon receipt at the facility they would then send you the refund.

This would allow the consumer protection, not burden the gun industry, and result in the destruction of any guns in the program.
 
=Rich2018;1071608043]Why would they need to keep cash for a refund ?
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In response to post 40: A lot of times my son will sell something on ebay as is and explain what's wrong with all kinds of photos from different angles.
Then someone buys it and 2-3 days later they send it back in worse condition claiming it didn't work. In the meantime my boy has reinvested that money into something else. A lot of it is conscious buying then blaming on their wives. It's a BS return but it happens often. The same would happen if guns could be returned for the full price.
I saw a poster mention when that gun leaves the store it's considered used. Truth. Expect used value in accordance to any guarantee.


Perhaps in an ideal world but this virus is costing the government untold $trillions as it is.
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But yet you seem more worried about guns then anything else. How many $trillions are guns costing again I seem to have missed the figure you quoted.
 
Chillfolks said:
How about a comparamise.


The Federal Government offers a full refund on any gun purchase up to a year after its purchase. You would have to pay to have it mailed to a location upon receipt at the facility they would then send you the refund.

This would allow the consumer protection, not burden the gun industry, and result in the destruction of any guns in the program.
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Why should tax payers have to pay ?


I want to burden the multi-billion arms industry. After all it happily peddles its weapons to an American society that sees tens of thousands of lives wrecked per year.

I only rate the tobacco companies lower than them


Besides, if the gun owners lobby is right, it won't be many guns at all

Isn't it time to make the gun lobby put their money where their mouth is ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Sorry, you're saying your state supreme court has ordered speedy trials?

I guess the jury box is spread out into the closed public seating area.
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Not sure how they do it TBH. Was told our local court restricts who can be in the courtroom so everybody spreads it in the smaller sitting area outside of it instead of spreading the folks over the much larger area inside the courtroom
 
Rich2018 said:
What about bingo:

We could have the following:

commie liberals
gun grabbers
threaten our rights
defensive use
liberal trash
car accidents
swimming pools
criminals
only the outlaws have gun
guns don't kill people
most gun deaths are suicides
most gun homicides are on criminal by criminals
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So what part of what you listed don't you understand? Though you do seem too be clumping all libs. into your class of thought though.
 
zsu2357 said:
In response to post 40: A lot of times my son will sell something on ebay as is and explain what's wrong with all kinds of photos from different angles.
Then someone buys it and 2-3 days later they send it back in worse condition claiming it didn't work. In the meantime my boy has reinvested that money into something else. A lot of it is conscious buying then blaming on their wives. It's a BS return but it happens often. The same would happen if guns could be returned for the full price.
I saw a poster mention when that gun leaves the store it's considered used. Truth. Expect used value in accordance to any guarantee.
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So you feel that there's a population of people who'll buy guns only to return them in a used/damaged condition

Easy solution, add that to their background details so a gun dealer knows they've returned a gun before


But yet you seem more worried about guns then anything else. How many $trillions are guns costing again I seem to have missed the figure you quoted.
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???


How many trillions are guns costing who ?
 
Drawdown said:
Not sure how they do it TBH. Was told our local court restricts who can be in the courtroom so everybody spreads it in the smaller sitting area outside of it instead of spreading the folks over the much larger area inside the courtroom
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I guess it affects the transportation of prisoners too.

And prisons must be a breeding ground for the virus, if one guy gets it, the whole prison is at risk.

Unlike schools, they can't send everyone home.
 
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